H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-07-21, 04:08:

Grem Five wrote on 2023-07-21, 00:01:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-07-20, 20:34:

Hadn't considered looking at your profile, since a lot don't list their country 🤣 but yeah, you're in the EU as well as I, and most TUSL2-C are in US or Asia. There are a couple for sale in Hungary, though, however, they're on the edge of what I'm willing to pay ...

I dont know where to find TUSL2-C now but a couple of years ago the most reasonable place I found to get them from was from one seller in Ukraine. Thats where I got mine from for about $35 USD and saw him have more than quite a few he sold and more then I generally ever saw for sale in the USA. Unfortunately his listings have sharply dropped off in the last couple of years, I hope he is ok and doing well.

Wonder if that's the Ukrainian seller that I'm following as well. He actually has a TUSL board once in a while still. But customs from outside the EU has become quite pricey ...

I also wonder if that's the same Ukrainian seller I have found as well. And yes I fully agree the customs outside the EU have really become quite pricy. That's why I am more interested from buying from guys within the EU. This makes things much harder because there is much great stuff to buy sellers from outside the EU.

mmx_91 wrote on 2023-07-20, 21:47:

theiceman085 wrote:

I did not that there chances to get a modded Tualatin. Thanks for mentioning that option. I will look into it asap.

This is the one I bought in case it's helpful: https://www.ebay.es/itm/281238323137

Good luck with your search!

Thanks for the link. That's helpful.

@shevalier Has a point though. The easiest way would be to get the board that has Tualatin support from the get-go like the AOpen MX3S-T you have mentioned.

Getting a Tualatin system would be quite an expensive matter anyway. So I am patient enough to wait until I find a bargain for each component.

the CPU itself is the easiest part. While some listings are rather expensive like P3 Tualatin 1400 from the US for 69 USD plus shipping and potential custom fees, a Tualatin 1266 from China would only cost 19.95 USD plus 4.95 shipping.

But again I do not know high the custom fees would be.

I will keep a close eye on the market situation.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-21, 06:14:

I also wonder if that's the same Ukrainian seller I have found as well. component.

I'm really from Ukraine and right now I'm in Kherson.
Therefore, I will explain the situation.

Even before the war, c370 stuff was already a little out of reach.
In the early 2000s, the people bought any slag like VIA693 by PCpartner.
It did not work as new, and has long been in the trash.

Enterprises bought Intel, Dell and sometimes Asus.
Given the peculiarities of post-USSR accounting, it is easier to keep than to de-register.
Therefore, TUSL2 can accidentally be found in a box with computer junk at some large enterprise.
Massively they ceased to be 5-7 years ago.

There are 3 & 1/2 socket 370 motherboards available right now at the national internet flea market - OLX.ua.
- MS-6323 v1
- SL-65MIE
- FIC FS15T
- unknown Acorp
It's definitely not a cornucopia.

Conclusions.
- It will not be better with necro hardware, due to the fact that it has already been thrown out.
- It is necessary to take now, what is available. Then it will be more expensive.

Sorry for the later reply. was away from home without internet the last couple of days. Thanks for the infos @shevalier You are totally right things are not getting better with retro hardware. It is on the contrary. Especially with such rather rare things like a Tualatin compatible motherboard.

After some research I have decided to go with the ASUS TUSL2 mb. The listings I found are quite expensive but I wanted to attend a flea market next weekend anyway. And after selling some stuff I should have enough extra money to get the asus board in case I am lucky and it is still there then.

The MSI 694T Pro would also be a neat alternative but it would be even more expensive than the Asus.

In case the MSI is of better quality than the Asus I might reconsider my choice maybe. Is someone here that has experience with both mainboards and can tell if one mb is better than the other in some ways or are they equals?

When browsing around I found also a Tualatin motherboard from Top Star. Maybe worth a look for you as well.

It is not cheap though but since you are into Tualatin motherboards you already know that.

I intel bx 440 system with a pentium 2 cpu right now but I also tempted to get very high powered pentium 3 at some point in the future. I was thinking about a Tualatin System for a short time peroid. But after seeing the prices I dediced that going with pentium 3 1 ghz coppermine is the more finacially viable approach.

But good luck with your Tualatin build. Hope you are going to find a nice motherboard for that project.

gamefan_851 wrote on 2023-07-24, 17:51:

When browsing around I found also a Tualatin motherboard from Top Star. Maybe worth a look for you as well. […]
Show full quote

When browsing around I found also a Tualatin motherboard from Top Star. Maybe worth a look for you as well.

It is not cheap though but since you are into Tualatin motherboards you already know that.

I intel bx 440 system with a pentium 2 cpu right now but I also tempted to get very high powered pentium 3 at some point in the future. I was thinking about a Tualatin System for a short time peroid. But after seeing the prices I dediced that going with pentium 3 1 ghz coppermine is the more finacially viable approach.

But good luck with your Tualatin build. Hope you are going to find a nice motherboard for that project.

Thanks. you have a point of course. Getting a Tualatin board and the CPU is quite an expensive matter. I am willing to pay the extra price to get a special rig.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-24, 20:43:

gamefan_851 wrote on 2023-07-24, 17:51:

When browsing around I found also a Tualatin motherboard from Top Star. Maybe worth a look for you as well. […]
Show full quote

When browsing around I found also a Tualatin motherboard from Top Star. Maybe worth a look for you as well.

It is not cheap though but since you are into Tualatin motherboards you already know that.

I intel bx 440 system with a pentium 2 cpu right now but I also tempted to get very high powered pentium 3 at some point in the future. I was thinking about a Tualatin System for a short time peroid. But after seeing the prices I dediced that going with pentium 3 1 ghz coppermine is the more finacially viable approach.

But good luck with your Tualatin build. Hope you are going to find a nice motherboard for that project.

Thanks. you have a point of course. Getting a Tualatin board and the CPU is quite an expensive matter. I am willing to pay the extra price to get a special rig.

You are welcome and I understand. The nice to have factor is also valid reason to get Tualatin Pc. But are you also hopping to get a lot of extra power as well?

The reason why I am asking is because I want to own very powerful pentium 3 system at some point. And in case the Tualatin offers some signifcant power advantage I might consider getting one even if that means I am in need for second rig.

As you can see the opinion of future Tualatin user would be very interesting for me.

On my current intel bx 440 system the most powerful cpu i could get would the pentium 3 1 ghz Coppermine with a SlocketA.

I am just a noob so If you want detailed answer about the real life power difference between the p3 ghz Coppermine and the Tualatin you have to ask someone else I am afraid.

On the first page of my post this thread

Tualatin Celeron vs Williamette Celeron

was linked.

It might help you a bit.

The MSI 694T has a flaw that kills the integrated audio.
At least on my board the VT1612A (sound chip) is fed directly from the 5V rail, even if the chip is 3,3V only on that leg.
IF it still works, an inductor/jumper L102 can be removed, and there is quite near 3,3V available at L26 (between two PCI-slots IIRC)

A Tualatin 1.4 GHz (on an Intel i815 motherboard) is between 30 to 50% faster compared to a 1 GHz Coppermine that runs on a 440BX motherboard.

I have nothing against Tualatin builds (I myself have four, though I VERY rarely use them), but if you want a friendly piece of advice - if you are not a collector, if you simply want to play games, don't buy an expensive Tualatin build just because it's trendy. In terms of functionality, it literally has nothing special going for it.

You can get a much better experience with an Athlon XP, Pentium 4 or Athlon 64 build. Yes, it's a bit more difficult to get some of these builds right (i.e. some socket 754/939 motherboards have an annoying BIOS bug that kills the AGP performance in Win98), but if you do your research and buy the right motherboard, you will end up with an exceptional build, at a much lower price.
Right now, the cheapest Athlon XP (socket A) board that I can find locally costs just $8! And it's none other than the awesome Asus A7V600-X motherboard. Pair it with a slow and cheap Athlon XP CPU, and it will do everything that the Tualatin build does, but much better. Out of all my builds, this is my most used one, my 'daily driver' build, and for good reason.

bloodem wrote on 2023-07-25, 16:41:

A Tualatin 1.4 GHz (on an Intel i815 motherboard) is between 30 to 50% faster compared to a 1 GHz Coppermine that runs on a 440B […]
Show full quote

A Tualatin 1.4 GHz (on an Intel i815 motherboard) is between 30 to 50% faster compared to a 1 GHz Coppermine that runs on a 440BX motherboard.

I have nothing against Tualatin builds (I myself have four, though I VERY rarely use them), but if you want a friendly piece of advice - if you are not a collector, if you simply want to play games, don't buy an expensive Tualatin build just because it's trendy. In terms of functionality, it literally has nothing special going for it.

You can get a much better experience with an Athlon XP, Pentium 4 or Athlon 64 build. Yes, it's a bit more difficult to get some of these builds right (i.e. some socket 754/939 motherboards have an annoying BIOS bug that kills the AGP performance in Win98), but if you do your research and buy the right motherboard, you will end up with an exceptional build, at a much lower price.
Right now, the cheapest Athlon XP (socket A) board that I can find locally costs just $8! And it's none other than the awesome Asus A7V600-X motherboard. Pair it with a slow and cheap Athlon XP CPU, and it will do everything that the Tualatin build does, but much better. Out of all my builds, this is my most used one, my 'daily driver' build, and for good reason.

You have a point. For the coolness factor owning a Tualatin would be really neat but it would cost a lot of money like you said. And I just want to play games on my old hardware and I am not really a collector.

It also makes sense to own an athlon system as an addition to my first intel440 system (asus p2b and p3 900 MHz).

Would be the Athlon 64 too fast for the Voodoo 3 and would I better off trying to find an Athlon xp?

bloodem wrote on 2023-07-25, 16:41:

A Tualatin 1.4 GHz (on an Intel i815 motherboard) is between 30 to 50% faster compared to a 1 GHz Coppermine that runs on a 440B […]
Show full quote

A Tualatin 1.4 GHz (on an Intel i815 motherboard) is between 30 to 50% faster compared to a 1 GHz Coppermine that runs on a 440BX motherboard.

I have nothing against Tualatin builds (I myself have four, though I VERY rarely use them), but if you want a friendly piece of advice - if you are not a collector, if you simply want to play games, don't buy an expensive Tualatin build just because it's trendy. In terms of functionality, it literally has nothing special going for it.

You can get a much better experience with an Athlon XP, Pentium 4 or Athlon 64 build. Yes, it's a bit more difficult to get some of these builds right (i.e. some socket 754/939 motherboards have an annoying BIOS bug that kills the AGP performance in Win98), but if you do your research and buy the right motherboard, you will end up with an exceptional build, at a much lower price.
Right now, the cheapest Athlon XP (socket A) board that I can find locally costs just $8! And it's none other than the awesome Asus A7V600-X motherboard. Pair it with a slow and cheap Athlon XP CPU, and it will do everything that the Tualatin build does, but much better. Out of all my builds, this is my most used one, my 'daily driver' build, and for good reason.

Thanks a lot for the friendly reminder. Just like op I am also just want to play games and I am not a collector. I also have always been scepcitical if the high price of the Tualatin mother board is worth the price form a pure gaming perspective.

I also already have intel 440bx system with a pentium 2 and getting an athlon for my second more powerful late win 98se gaming era sounds like a good idea I will look into the athlon systems asap.

My graphics card of choice for my intel 440bx system is geforce mx 440 btw.

For my second more powerful win 98se build for the years 2000 and 2001 I want to get a more powerful card like real geforce 4 or radeon from the 9000s series. Would such cards be a good partner for a athlon xp or athlon 64 system?

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-25, 18:11:

Would be the Athlon 64 too fast for the Voodoo 3 and would I better off trying to find an Athlon xp?

An AGP Voodoo 3 card cannot physically fit into the AGP 8x slot of most Athlon64 boards. You'd have to use the PCI version in that case.

In contrast, AthlonXP boards often have universal AGP slots which do work with Voodoo 3 cards up to a certain point. I think the last VIA chipset which supports the Voodoo 3 is the KT333. But even then, you have to be careful and read the motherboard documentation thoroughly. Otherwise, you may end up frying your card and/or motherboard.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-25, 18:11:

Would be the Athlon 64 too fast for the Voodoo 3 and would I better off trying to find an Athlon xp?

As Joseph already mentioned a few days ago, it doesn't make much sense to pair the Voodoo 3 with anything faster than a Pentium 3 1 GHz (and it won't work anyway with an Athlon 64 motherboard).
The Voodoo 3 is a perfect pair for the future 900 MHz P3, while the GeForce 4 Ti 4200 would be an awesome pair for an Athlon XP / Athlon 64 Win98 build.

gamefan_851 wrote on 2023-07-25, 18:24:

For my second more powerful win 98se build for the years 2000 and 2001 I want to get a more powerful card like real geforce 4 or radeon from the 9000s series. Would such cards be a good partner for a athlon xp or athlon 64 system?

If by 'real GeForce 4', you mean the GeForce 4 Ti 4200/4400/4600, then yes, see my answer above. 😀

bloodem wrote on 2023-07-25, 19:14:

As Joseph already mentioned a few days ago, it doesn't make much sense to pair the Voodoo 3 with anything faster than a Pentium […]
Show full quote

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-25, 18:11:

Would be the Athlon 64 too fast for the Voodoo 3 and would I better off trying to find an Athlon xp?

As Joseph already mentioned a few days ago, it doesn't make much sense to pair the Voodoo 3 with anything faster than a Pentium 3 1 GHz (and it won't work anyway with an Athlon 64 motherboard).
The Voodoo 3 is a perfect pair for the future 900 MHz P3, while the GeForce 4 Ti 4200 would be an awesome pair for an Athlon XP / Athlon 64 Win98 build.

gamefan_851 wrote on 2023-07-25, 18:24:

For my second more powerful win 98se build for the years 2000 and 2001 I want to get a more powerful card like real geforce 4 or radeon from the 9000s series. Would such cards be a good partner for a athlon xp or athlon 64 system?

If by 'real GeForce 4', you mean the GeForce 4 Ti 4200/4400/4600, then yes, see my answer above. 😀

Thanks for the info. And yes that's right Joseph Joestar already gave me the advice few day ago to put the p3 900 and the voodoo 3 in the asus p2b system and put the geforce 4 4200 that is in my collection already in the planned more powerful athlon xp or athlon 64 system.

@Joseph_Joestar thx for your answer as well.

bloodem wrote on 2023-07-25, 19:14:

As Joseph already mentioned a few days ago, it doesn't make much sense to pair the Voodoo 3 with anything faster than a Pentium […]
Show full quote

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-25, 18:11:

Would be the Athlon 64 too fast for the Voodoo 3 and would I better off trying to find an Athlon xp?

As Joseph already mentioned a few days ago, it doesn't make much sense to pair the Voodoo 3 with anything faster than a Pentium 3 1 GHz (and it won't work anyway with an Athlon 64 motherboard).
The Voodoo 3 is a perfect pair for the future 900 MHz P3, while the GeForce 4 Ti 4200 would be an awesome pair for an Athlon XP / Athlon 64 Win98 build.

gamefan_851 wrote on 2023-07-25, 18:24:

For my second more powerful win 98se build for the years 2000 and 2001 I want to get a more powerful card like real geforce 4 or radeon from the 9000s series. Would such cards be a good partner for a athlon xp or athlon 64 system?

If by 'real GeForce 4', you mean the GeForce 4 Ti 4200/4400/4600, then yes, see my answer above. 😀

Sorry for my bad wording. With real Geforce 4 I meant a GF 4 4200 or the 4400.

I have done some more research and the price of the Asus A7V600-X is really nice compared to the Tualatin boards.

I even found a Asus A7V600-X that is sold together with a cpu.

Would you say that the Athlon XP 2800+ is decent cpu?

I have also checked out the prices of other a athlon xp and athlon 64 cpu and the price is also good.

After seeing the prices I am really glad I moved away from the Tualatin idea. Nothing againtst the Tualatin . The boards and the cpu are very intersting for sure but I am not a enemey of my money. For mainly gaming purposes there are better and cheaper options out there.

The recommend path from @bloodem is the right way to go.

gamefan_851 wrote on 2023-07-26, 06:11:

Would you say that the Athlon XP 2800+ is decent cpu?

The Athlon XP 2800+ (which is most likely a Barton, though it could also be a "Thoroughbred"), is a VERY powerful CPU.
In fact, it might be a bit too powerful, which is why I recommended a slower Athlon XP.
The issue with the majority of Socket A motherboards is the fact that they draw most of their power from the PSU's 5V rail. An Athlon XP 2800+ will be very power hungry and most modern PSUs won't work reliably (or won't work at all), since they have very weak 5V & 3.3V rails. Phil has a video where he demonstrates the behavior you can expect depending on how hungry the CPU and video card are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efK7mw8eYiE
Of course, if you can find a good quality PSU that offers at least 25 amps on the 5V & 3.3V rails, then the Barton 2800+ will be a beast.

Here are my notes from a few years ago, when I tested a Barton 2600+:

And, just for comparison, here are some similar benchmarks from one of my Tualatin builds:

As I am not aware of the intention of this build, I find it hard to make a suggestion.

I can just add a somewhat perplexing observation that I made many years ago when I tried to pick a base for a Voodoo 5500 AGP. As a base for comparison, I used the game "European Air War".
I moved the card from P3 500 to P3 1000 to XP-2400 OC. And it kept scaling well IN A SIMULATOR game.

So it would have loved the XP-2400. But I still threw out all my Athlon CPUs and Boards because I just didn't want to keep soldering capacitors. I use a P3/Asus BX 44 combo that can be set at 1000 MHz if the need arises, and have this rig as a Dos/win98 machine for everything from Wing Commander 1 to European Air War. It is the purpose of your project that ultimately governs your choices.
Good luck!

ux-3 wrote on 2023-07-26, 08:04:

But I still threw out all my Athlon CPUs and Boards because I just didn't want to keep soldering capacitors.

Not sure I understand what you mean. How many times did you replace the capacitors and why? 😯
I did full recaps on some of my boards and they will be good for the next 20 years. Others still have their original caps (those that came with Rubycon caps, for example, are still in top shape).

ux-3 wrote on 2023-07-26, 08:04:

As I am not aware of the intention of this build, I find it hard to make a suggestion. […]
Show full quote

As I am not aware of the intention of this build, I find it hard to make a suggestion.

I can just add a somewhat perplexing observation that I made many years ago when I tried to pick a base for a Voodoo 5500 AGP. As a base for comparison, I used the game "European Air War".
I moved the card from P3 500 to P3 1000 to XP-2400 OC. And it kept scaling well IN A SIMULATOR game.

So it would have loved the XP-2400. But I still threw out all my Athlon CPUs and Boards because I just didn't want to keep soldering capacitors. I use a P3/Asus BX 44 combo that can be set at 1000 MHz if the need arises, and have this rig as a Dos/win98 machine for everything from Wing Commander 1 to European Air War. It is the purpose of your project that ultimately governs your choices.
Good luck!

Thanks for your reply. Well the goal of the build has changed a bit. The original plan was to find a home for my Voodoo 3 2000 agp to get a very powerful glide machine.

After posting here I learned I made classic beginner error and I was told the best home for the V3 would be my current asus p2b system with the p3 900 mhz that is in my collection already but has not been installed in the system yet.

Now I am looking for a home for the card that I had anticipated for the final form of my Asus p2b system. A Gainward Geforce 4 4200.

My main era of interest is the whole late Win 98se era. From late 97 to 2001.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-07-26, 08:24:

My main era of interest is the whole late Win 98se era. From late 97 to 2001.

I myself approach this purely from the practical point of view:
Sort out XP compatible stuff...
Much left?
Why does it need Win98se?
DX version, hardware specific stuff, audio, OS, ...?

I also still have a 4200 ti in a box. For it, in another box, I have an ASRock 865pe Conroe, along with the Driver CD (win98se), ram and three core2 CPUs, one is a singlecore version. This (core2 at 2400 MHz) should be enough for all Win98se gaming speed needs. The Ti4200 AGP connector should have 2 slits though.
I just haven't yet found a single game that I care for which would _require_ me to put it back together (I am the original owner). So far, my P3 does it all. And if it doesn't, an Intel i5 WinXP system will take over. Which also works as a Win7 system. At the moment, I try to stay with three retro machines: A baby AT 486DX-40, which isn't really needed but will reach the age of 30 soon. A relict. My all purpose retro P3 machine and my wife's old ivy i5 for XP and Win7.

What I find is that i trash more and more games because they don't live up to the memory I have of them and I am better off playing and exploring some new stuff. Sometimes it is good to not return but keep the memory.