GodsPetMonkey wrote on 2023-12-05, 13:53:

Similarly, I recommend workstation hardware because it is designed for stability. You are building a (audio) workstation, so workstation hardware is just a natural fit. Within reason of course, don't overspend!

There's a LOT of information to absorb in this thread - especially for an old geezer who's been in Mac world for a couple of decades - but your recommendation to ...just stick with Ivy Bridge and earlier.... leads me to believe that the workstation hardware you're referring to is the X58 or X79 main boards that have been previously discussed in this thread. If you don't mind, would you please recommend a specific mobo or two that you like for the project(s) being discussed herein?

For SATA3, I guess the question is, do you need it? Yes, it offers double the throughput of SATA2 (theoretically... your most likely going to be limited by something else, though with the right drive still in excess of SATA2). But a good SSD on SATA2 is still snappy and fast compared to a spinning disk - the access time of an SSD is what makes it feel so fast compared to mechanical hard drives. Throughput is only going to matter a lot if you are doing big sequential transfers.

I'm not exactly sure what your use of the word sequential means, but the context of big transfers really gets to the heart of the matter for me. Even for a "modern" computer, some of the file transfers involved in our upcoming project(s) are huge - and in Win XP (or Win 7) terms - they are gigantic. For example, I recently used our MBP 15 to back up an MC album in which a single track was 741MB in size. To put things into further perspective, the MC mix of the entire album was just under 2.5GB in size.

In case it's not clear, my main concern from the beginning has been the size of the file transfers. This is why I've put an emphasis on employing SSD(s) and hoping to get as much "transfer power" as possible. So not only am I hoping for SATA III SSDs, but I'm also hoping to get as much from the USB ports as possible. The MBP 15 that I'm typing on right now is a Core i7-4980HQ Mactop with 16GB of 1600Mhz DDR3L RAM - and a couple of USB 3.0 ports installed. I've used it many times to transfer these MC albums around, so it's essentially my reference point when I consider the legacy machine we're discussing. In fact, one could say that I've been using a Mac "legacy machine" for years, so seeing recommendations for CPUs from the same generation, for example, have been pretty encouraging.

Needless to say, if my concerns are unfounded, please fell free to educate me.

VivienM wrote on 2023-12-03, 21:40:

I would suggest going for a simple Z77 board. You don't need the one with the add-on PCI-E storage controllers that will confuse you, you don't need the one with the super-duperest most-overclocking-friendly power setup, etc. Just go for something simple whose manufacturer has a full set of XP drivers on their web site today. Then slipstream the F6 storage driver into an XP disc and off you go...

I happen to have an Asus P8Z77-M here; other than the fact that I am a bit hesitant to recommend mATX boards, it certainly seems fine.

Hi again, @VivienM !

I was going back over this thread in an effort to pick out specific mobo recommendations, which lead me to the quote excerpt (above). I agree with you about your reticence to suggest a micro-ATX mobo. We already have two cases here to work with, for example. One is an all-aluminum Lian Li PC6002 full ATX case and - as we were once considering a double mobo system - the other is an even bigger Fractal Designs Meshify 2 XL ATX case. I'm all for having as much room for future endeavors as possible; hence, the huge PC case and a desire for as much mobo as I can get.

Do you happen to know of an ATX or E-ATX ASUS mobo that's comparable to your Asus P8Z77-M ?

Sigtryggr wrote on 2023-12-05, 20:41:

The MBP 15 that I'm typing on right now is a Core i7-4980HQ Mactop with 16GB of 1600Mhz DDR3L RAM - and a couple of USB 3.0 ports installed.

Note that trying to get USB 3.0 on XP will be a challenge. Intel doesn't have USB 3.0 drivers for their on-chipset controller; there are aftermarket PCI-E USB cards that use controllers with XP drivers, though who knows how easy to find those will be in 2023.

Sigtryggr wrote on 2023-12-05, 21:22:

Hi again, @VivienM ! […]
Show full quote

VivienM wrote on 2023-12-03, 21:40:

I would suggest going for a simple Z77 board. You don't need the one with the add-on PCI-E storage controllers that will confuse you, you don't need the one with the super-duperest most-overclocking-friendly power setup, etc. Just go for something simple whose manufacturer has a full set of XP drivers on their web site today. Then slipstream the F6 storage driver into an XP disc and off you go...

I happen to have an Asus P8Z77-M here; other than the fact that I am a bit hesitant to recommend mATX boards, it certainly seems fine.

Hi again, @VivienM !

I was going back over this thread in an effort to pick out specific mobo recommendations, which lead me to the quote excerpt (above). I agree with you about your reticence to suggest a micro-ATX mobo. We already have two cases here to work with, for example. One is an all-aluminum Lian Li PC6002 full ATX case and - as we were once considering a double mobo system - the other is an even bigger Fractal Designs Meshify 2 XL ATX case. I'm all for having as much room for future endeavors as possible; hence, the huge PC case and a desire for as much mobo as I can get.

Do you happen to know of an ATX or E-ATX ASUS mobo that's comparable to your Asus P8Z77-M ?

I don't know much about Z77 motherboards directly (I bought this system from my friend who built it 10+ years ago), but google suggests there's a P8Z77-V that's full ATX. Really, just go looking on eBay or Facebook Marketplace for Z77 motherboards, there might even be some new in box ones... anything that isn't too too fancy and has XP drivers on the manufacturer's web site should be fine.

VivienM wrote on 2023-12-06, 02:24:

Note that trying to get USB 3.0 on XP will be a challenge. Intel doesn't have USB 3.0 drivers for their on-chipset controller; there are aftermarket PCI-E USB cards that use controllers with XP drivers, though who knows how easy to find those will be in 2023.

pretty much any high end motherboard up to Z77 chipset would have an additional usb3 controller or two to provide more usb3 ports, and those would have winXP drivers available on the motherboard website. I remember my Gigabyte Z77X-UP7 motherboard had not one but two additional usb3 onboard controllers, one was VIA, other one was Etron, and both had XP drivers on gigachad's site

VivienM wrote on 2023-12-06, 02:24:

Sigtryggr wrote on 2023-12-05, 20:41:

The MBP 15 that I'm typing on right now is a Core i7-4980HQ Mactop with 16GB of 1600Mhz DDR3L RAM - and a couple of USB 3.0 ports installed.

Note that trying to get USB 3.0 on XP will be a challenge. Intel doesn't have USB 3.0 drivers for their on-chipset controller; there are aftermarket PCI-E USB cards that use controllers with XP drivers, though who knows how easy to find those will be in 2023.

A few weeks ago I installed XP SP3 onto a ProDesk 600 G1, which only has the Intel chipset USB 3.0 controller and didnt notice any problem with the USB 3.0 driver.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-12-06, 07:25:

VivienM wrote on 2023-12-06, 02:24:

Sigtryggr wrote on 2023-12-05, 20:41:

The MBP 15 that I'm typing on right now is a Core i7-4980HQ Mactop with 16GB of 1600Mhz DDR3L RAM - and a couple of USB 3.0 ports installed.

Note that trying to get USB 3.0 on XP will be a challenge. Intel doesn't have USB 3.0 drivers for their on-chipset controller; there are aftermarket PCI-E USB cards that use controllers with XP drivers, though who knows how easy to find those will be in 2023.

A few weeks ago I installed XP SP3 onto a ProDesk 600 G1, which only has the Intel chipset USB 3.0 controller and didnt notice any problem with the USB 3.0 driver.

Thank you for the great post, my friend !

Hi to all!

As a bit of pressure is being applied now, I have to start tying some of this great information together. I'm not ruling anything out, just yet, but I am liking the apparent durability of an X79 HEDT mobo, CPU and ECC RAM.

Here's a link to an X79 HEDT mobo that seems to be highly-regarded: https://www.asus.com/commercial-servers-works … 9e_ws/helpdesk/

As I'm having some difficulty deciphering the 32-bit Win XP support available for this mobo, I'd appreciate it if anyone can make heads or tails out of what's actually supported by the manufacturer. I'm especially puzzled by the available SATA 3 support.

As ever, cheers for the help!

Sigtryggr wrote on 2023-12-06, 07:50:

Hi to all! […]
Show full quote

Hi to all!

As a bit of pressure is being applied now, I have to start tying some of this great information together. I'm not ruling anything out, just yet, but I am liking the apparent durability of an X79 HEDT mobo, CPU and ECC RAM.

Here's a link to an X79 HEDT mobo that seems to be highly-regarded: https://www.asus.com/commercial-servers-works … 9e_ws/helpdesk/

As I'm having some difficulty deciphering the 32-bit Win XP support available for this mobo, I'd appreciate it if anyone can make heads or tails out of what's actually supported by the manufacturer. I'm especially puzzled by the available SATA 3 support.

As ever, cheers for the help!

It is basically the same as what I use. Mine is Asus P9X79 WS, without the "-E", so its the older revision. The only difference for the "-E" version is a PLX chip for more pcie lanes. I already explained my experience with mine - no winXP 32bit sata ahci drivers are available for the sata controller in the X79 chipset, only winXP 64bit. And of course Vista and up both 32 and 64 bit. There's also an additional Marvel sata controller providing some extra ports, that one does have ahci drivers for XP, so thats how Im using it, system drives to the marvel controller, while the intel controller set to ide mode only has data storage hard drives attached. It's less than ideal because the marvel controller doesnt perform as well as the intel controller, but it is what it is. It's not just the intel sata controller either, quite a few onboard resources have no XP drivers, as seen by the bunch of yellow checkmarks in the device manager. If you don't need the extra cpu cores and ram that X79 can provide, consider Asus P9Z77 WS, it is still a workstation board but with the Z77 chipset so winXP support should be complete

Sigtryggr wrote on 2023-12-06, 07:50:

Hi to all! […]
Show full quote

Hi to all!

As a bit of pressure is being applied now, I have to start tying some of this great information together. I'm not ruling anything out, just yet, but I am liking the apparent durability of an X79 HEDT mobo, CPU and ECC RAM.

Here's a link to an X79 HEDT mobo that seems to be highly-regarded: https://www.asus.com/commercial-servers-works … 9e_ws/helpdesk/

As I'm having some difficulty deciphering the 32-bit Win XP support available for this mobo, I'd appreciate it if anyone can make heads or tails out of what's actually supported by the manufacturer. I'm especially puzzled by the available SATA 3 support.

As ever, cheers for the help!

Much of the board doesnt have XP drivers.
It isnt a good choice for what you want to do. It will be some work to get it working, and once done it will never fully work in XP anyway.

and that should be true with all X79 chipset boards, I guess if you really need HEDT and Z77 doesnt cut it, X58 it is then

SATA support is straight forward :
Windows XP (32-bit), you use driver from latest RAID download :
1) Asmedia SATA Controller Driver V1.3.4.1 for ports on ASMedia controller
2) Marvell SATA 6G Driver V1.2.0.1032 for for ports on Marvell controller
AND
3) Modified driver for AHCI/RAID from here : LINK

God Of Gaming wrote on 2023-12-06, 08:36:

and that should be true with all X79 chipset boards, I guess if you really need HEDT and Z77 doesnt cut it, X58 it is then

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it looks like the mobo I asked about - the Asus P9X79-E WS - has SATA AHCI-mode support drivers for Win XP x86 (32-bit), correct?

Quote from agent_x007: SATA support is straight forward : Windows XP (32-bit), you use driver from latest RAID download : 1) Asm […]
Show full quote

Quote from agent_x007:
SATA support is straight forward :
Windows XP (32-bit), you use driver from latest RAID download :
1) Asmedia SATA Controller Driver V1.3.4.1 for ports on ASMedia controller
2) Marvell SATA 6G Driver V1.2.0.1032 for for ports on Marvell controller
AND
3) Modified driver for AHCI/RAID from here : LINK

Other than having to work with the modified Intel SATA AHCI driver from the WRF website, the other drivers appear to come from the controller manufacturers, right? I'm not being argumentative ; I'm still trying to learn.

Cheers to everyone who's contributed to this very nice thread!

God Of Gaming wrote on 2023-12-06, 08:36:

and that should be true with all X79 chipset boards, I guess if you really need HEDT and Z77 doesnt cut it, X58 it is then

Yep on the x79, looked at Intel, Asus, Giga, MSI and Asrock and no native Xp 32bit Intel AHCI SATA drivers.....just IDE SATA (from a quick look). That would be an Intel thing.
There is the Intel RSTe SATA driver for XP but that would depend on the board/bios/C600 southbridge rev/etc and how it is identified by hardware ID for proper a iastorA.sys iirc
Think the x79 is not a good place for most to use for XP 32bit unless you really know what you are doing.

Think the x79 is not a good place for most to use for XP 32bit unless you really know what you are doing.

Well, that really limits things a LOT ! 🤣

Why does that limit you? You have been given many suggestions for other boards/chipsets. You came up with a X79 question, no one else recommended one. Please explain.

I was only joking, @Horun. I clearly don't know what I'm doing. 😀

The X58 and X79 HEDT mobo was recommended by two separate members who kindly participated in this thread. The prevailing logic being that purchasing a used business mobo is more desirable than investing in a used over-clocked gaming mobo. My independent research also tells me that the expensive old HEDT mobos were made with better components, which also appeals to non-gamers like us. Please tell me if any of this doesn't make sense.

EDIT: I've also received more than one PM about this as well. I assure you that the HEDT mobos were highly-recommended.

Many HEDT mobos were also very much in the enthusiast over-clocking gaming scene. Asus ROG Rampage Extreme anyone? Also there were business-class Z77 boards, like the Asus P9Z77 WS that I mentioned twice already

Want a really crazy out-there suggestion that is absolutely nuts? Check Asus Z9PE-D8 WS

Now that is a business workstation motherboard that no overclocking enthusiast would ever touch. Intel C602 server chipset (no OC support whatsoever), dual cpu capable, seems like still no winXP 32bit sata ahci drivers, but it has server 2003 32bit sata ahci drivers... which might be even better? I mean server 2003 is basically a better windows XP 😁 But yeah this board is nuts, probably not what you need at all

Now here's the really simple solution - get yourself an used HP Compaq / Dell Optiplex / Lenovo ThinkCentre workstation PC with i5-2400 or i5-3570, they are like 50 bucks or less on ebay, add an SSD and more ram, maybe an additional cheap pcie card with usb3 ports as Im not super sure it has any onboard or not, reinstall it with winXP/win7 dualboot, and away you go. For your needs it should do just fine

In my opinion X79 is a wild card: it may work or it may not work with all the required drivers. I am sure there are many here who are experts in installing XP on much newer hardware but for a production system I would go the safe route and choose something with official support! The most sensible option would be a motherboard with Z77 chipset - something from Asus which has some of the best Sandy/Ivy bridge boards, you do not need a model with extra controllers just go for the basic P8Z77-v which also has2 PCI slots - and 3770 processor - not the K version which commands a premium. Add some memory; a few SATA drives and you are good to go! You can also put Windows 7 on a separate SSD and select each time the system starts which OS you want to boot!

Why does it need to be a self built computer?

If the guy isnt really confident enough in computers to find XP drivers then should we be pointing him towards building his own PC with a £200 motherboard when a £100 prebuilt will do everything he wants to do?