Two SB16s will work fine. You just need to assign different resources.

For the main Sound Blaster card I recommend A220/I7/D1/D5/300

The other card will have MIDI set to 330 and all the other option to whatever is available (doesn't really matter as long as they don't conflict with something else you might have in the system like a SCSI or network card).

Mein thing is to have the MIDI port of the card hosting the wavetable set to 330.

Thanks mau1wurf thats good to know, but how do I do it? CTCU doesn't 'see' them, and diagnose.exe doesn't seem to be designed to handle more than one card at a time. So I can't imagine how I'm going to set the resources of the second card.

Thanks for any help, and happy easter everyone!

EDIT: "CTCU DOESN'T 'see' them..."

Here's some info :

[Solved] How to use SB16SET/MIXERSET/DIAGNOSE with TWO or more Creative PnP cards?

Wavetable Stand-in Card (XR385)

Right, sorry to keep banging on about this but I'm not getting it. I've read those threads, but in them you're discussing non-plug and play cards, which I assume have jumpers to set the MIDI port, etc? The 2 cards I have (CT2800, CT2900 Vibra 16S) don't have any jumpers beyond ones for IDE settings, and ones for setting the port (220, 240, etc). But I can't set the IRQ, DMA, etc.

But at the same time they're not plug and play cards either, so CTCU doesn't detect them at all. I can set them up as 'legacy cards' in CTCU but that doesn't seem to do anything except make CTCU 'aware' of them. So I have no way of differentiating the cards, therefore have no way of sending digital audio to one and MIDI to the other.

Any thoughts?

My CT2900 Vibra 16S doesn't use the CTCM plug and play manager, but when you run the setup disk you will get asked to set the resources.

I also couldn't get two Vibra 16S going, but didn't try very hard because I have other cards that are easier to work with.

You can use a smaller card with the XR385 if you make a cable and mount it elsewhere in your case.
I'm not sure if there is a maximum length, but don't make it too short either.

I'm not sure if you can use two semi-PnP Vibra 16S's in the same system at once. I've seen this done before but one of the cards is an older jumper only card or a later fully PnP card.
The Vibra 16S seems to get its settings when you initialize it with DIAGNOSE /S - it just sets the card to use what's in the BLASTER variable. I've no idea if its even possible to make DIAGNOSE distinguish between two cards like that.

To configure the 2 cards above, install one card first. You have to use the SBCONFIG file which comes with the SB16 driver disks which are available at vogonsdrivers. (My AWE32 CT2760 does not have the jumpers for IRQ and DMAs too - in which case, the diagnose initializes it.)

Or you can even use DIAGNOSE to set the initial configuration.

(For the Vibra16 cards, you can use the CT1740's driver disks which come on two disks or you can download any other non-pnp SB16 based deiver set.)

After configuring the first card, install the second card, and configure this card by repeating the process.

Usually these "semi-PnP" cards will come with the jumpers for the I/O address - they will be labeled as IOS1 & IOS2 or ISO1 & ISO2 - can't remember which. During the DIAGNOSE routine, when you're asked to select the I/O routine, you can point to the particular card by entering the correct I/O address. This will prevent the programs from accessing the wrong card.

For further fine tuning each mixers, you can follow the links above. (i.e. via SET statements.)

OK thanks for persisting guys, I'll give it a shot.

All this crap just to general midi without hanging notes - creative have a lot to answer for. How did they get away with this back in the day? A waveblaster wasn't cheap, were they hoping no-one noticed?

I usually enjoy the process of tracking down the right hardware and making it all work but finding the right sound options for my 386 and 486 has been a pain in the arse - and even my Windows 95 box is without sound at the moment come to think of it.

I know there are options other than creative, but I've tied a couple of clones - Yamaha, etc. They just don't do it for me.

Life is hard. 😀

All this crap just to general midi without hanging notes - creative have a lot to answer for.

Been there, done that. This why I don't bother with Creative cards.

Which Yamaha card did you try? Having tried various Creative, Crystal, Opti, Aztech, Gravis, Ensoniq etc cards, I found the YMF719 was the best all in one ISA DOS sound card for adlib/sound blaster/MIDI, with the only caveat of having to make a ribbon cable for the daughterboard.

I could probably even make you one for a tenner if you wanted 😀

badmofo wrote:

All this crap just to general midi without hanging notes - creative have a lot to answer for. How did they get away with this back in the day? A waveblaster wasn't cheap, were they hoping no-one noticed?

I certainly didn't notice when I was a kid 😀

Had a Sound Canvas on a Sound Blaster 16 basic and I only hear about this bug way later as an adult...

Can you guys confirm that if you select Sound Blaster (instead of Sound Blaster 16) the hanging note bug doesn't happen?

I wouldn't stress much because all you need is a clone card that has the wavetable header at a suitable spot. Ideally with jumpers but even if there are no jumpers they come with their own PnP utility.

There are so many cards available it shouldn't be an issue finding one.

DonutKing wrote:

Which Yamaha card did you try? Having tried various Creative, Crystal, Opti, Aztech, Gravis, Ensoniq etc cards, I found the YMF719 was the best all in one ISA DOS sound card for adlib/sound blaster/MIDI, with the only caveat of having to make a ribbon cable for the daughterboard.

I could probably even make you one for a tenner if you wanted 😀

The Yamaha I've tried is this one:

Yamaha ATC 6631, ymf719e-s chip set.

Maybe I was using the wrong drivers (had to install via Windows 3.11) but it never did sound great, and I couldn't get FM on at least one game I seem to recall. I gave up pretty easily though - you reckon this card is the way to go eh?

I do have the ingredients for a ribbon cable thanks - I never seem to make it out of jaycar without spending at least 100 bucks 😒

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

There are so many cards available it shouldn't be an issue finding one.

Oh, I've got cards! They seem to be multiplying in the shed. But I was hoping for a nice clean solution that was as period specific as possible.

Last night I tried the Vibra16S with an ISA AudioExcel3D clone:

I really like the AudioExcel, and if I unplug the joystick cable it fits an XR385 on it no problems. This setup works after some fiddling around with mixers, etc, but it's not perfect. If, for example, I run Riptide (FM music) and then Doom II, the general midi in Doom won't play - I have to re-boot to get the music back.

And I noticed that I couldn't get any effects / general midi at all with Flashback, where I know that works on this system with just the SB16+XR385.

So like I say I've been messing around with variations for a while and haven't found a decent setup. I'm happy to use 2 cards if I have to - even a ribbon cable if need be - as long as it all works.

Am I asking too much??

Just checking: Did you set the SB to 300 and the Audio Ecxcel to 330?

If you want a period correct solution hunt down a Roland MPU401AT 😀

I have two of them and they solve all these issues. You will need one anyway if you are looking at getting a MT-32 or CM-32: (or similar).

Yes I made sure the resources didn't clash, although there was no way to change the OPL port on the audioExcel so I guess that could have been a part of the problem - FM plays through both of them, I just turned it all the way down in the AudioExcel mixer.

So it does all work, just not always.

And don't get me started on the MPU401! This 486 is supposed to be my general midi machine, but I have a 386 with an MT-32 attached via a Soundscape's MPU-401 emulation, which of course isn't completely compatible. I've been whinging about that in another thread.

So... I don't suppose you want to part with one of those MPU401AT's do you? 😜

Yup FM playing through both is normal.

I chose external MIDI gear for a similar reason. The AWE64 is the perfect card for later DOS games that support SB16 and General MIDI. No hanging note bugs whatsoever, however they don't come with a wavetable header...

It would solve all your issues but you would need to get an external unit like a Sound Canvas (there are many flavours to choose form though).

These Roland MPU401 cards are so hard to find it's not funny.

Another solution is getting a SCC-1. This gives you the MPU401 interface AND a Roland Sound Canvas 😀

Either way it will cost you money. Nothing can be done about this and prices will only get worse so you might as well just bite the bullet.

badmofo wrote:

Maybe I was using the wrong drivers (had to install via Windows 3.11) but it never did sound great, and I couldn't get FM on at least one game I seem to recall. I gave up pretty easily though - you reckon this card is the way to go eh?

Do you remember what game that was? I haven't run into any games that it wouldn't work with yet (which I can't say for Crystal/Opti based cards)

Yes you need to install the drivers through win 3.1 unfortunately. You can run setupsa from DOS once its installed though.

Check this thread: The Yamaha OPL YMF718-S chipset.
In particular, check out Gerwin's post on the bottom of the first page.

Now be sure to turn of all 3D, Ymersion, bass and treble 'enhancements'. Put them all at 0. Also turn off any Amplifier with the jumpers. With that settled I am very content with the sound quality. It really is not a noisy or loud chip when configured properly.
Unlike what is written above the config utility does not seem to leave anything resident in memory, not even for the MPU-401.

In SETUPSA there is also an option for stereo, surround, hi-fi etc... set it for hi-fi for best quality if you're using powered speakers.

Right so what about this setup all in the one system:

SB16 for digital effects and OPL, spk out directed to an amp and speakers.
SCC-1 for General MIDI, spk out directed into the SB16 line in.
SCC-1 for MPU401, MIDI out directed to an MT-32, MT-32 output also directed to the SB16 line in.

Would my bases be covered? How would I switch b/w general MIDI and MT-32 MIDI given they both use the same port (330)? Is this just an internal/external option being switched in the SCC-1's software?

DonutKing wrote:

Do you remember what game that was? I haven't run into any games that it wouldn't work with yet (which I can't say for Crystal/Opti based cards)

In SETUPSA there is also an option for stereo, surround, hi-fi etc... set it for hi-fi for best quality if you're using powered speakers.

No I don't remember the game unfortunately, I'd installed Windows specifically for these drivers so after getting it all up and running and finding it didn't work I think I rage uninstalled the card. I should give it another go.

I'm pretty sure I had a good look at the SETUPSA options but like I say, I was not in a patient frame of mind.

Thanks for the tips!

Would my bases be covered? How would I switch b/w general MIDI and MT-32 MIDI given they both use the same port (330)? Is this just an internal/external option being switched in the SCC-1's software?

They'll both play at the same time. The SCC-1 will play audio through its output jack and send MIDI data out its MIDI port.

You may want to try a mixer rather than hook everything up to the SB16's line in; this will let you control the volumes of each device independently from one control point.
There are cheap passive mixers on ebay that work OK, I have the ART Splitmix 4 that works OK but every device you plug into it lowers the overall output volume for everything. Active mixers won't have this problem but will require power.

Personally I move all my computer stuff around so often that I end up just plugging in the device I want depending on the game I'm playing.