robertmo3 wrote on 2023-11-19, 09:35:

God Of Gaming wrote on 2023-11-18, 09:36:

NFS 1 SE.... the console ports of it can be emulated at high res but they have less content, so its less than perfect....

can anyone elaborate on that?

whats to elaborate?

original NFS 1 release for 3DO in 1994, 320x240, in 4DO emulator you can double that res to 640x480
DOS port in 1995, can select 320x240 or 640x480 resolutions in the settings
Win95 port and upgrade NFS 1 SE in 1996, definitive version of the game with most content, also force feedback support, same as prev version, 320x240 and 640x480 only
PS1 and Sega Saturn ports from 1996, should be able to run those in 4K in say duckstation emulator for example, however they have less content than NFS 1 SE

NFS 1 SE has both win95 and dos executables, and you can emulate the dos executable on dosbox on a modern PC, but you cannot force it into rendering higher res than 640x480, also the force feedback does not work when emulated, the only way to play it with force feedback is on a retro PC, whats more, only microsoft sidewinder force feedback gameport wheel seems to be compatible, and this is like the only game for which I have to keep that wheel and have it take up space

if it had like a modern source port, that will allow us to play this game in native 4K on win 7 and linux, and use a modern FFB wheel, that would be great I say, and complete the set, as like I said, every other NFS game can be played on a modern PC in 4K, this is the only one that cannot, if we exclude emulating the PS1 port in duckstation, which as I explained is not the definitive experience of the game

God Of Gaming wrote on 2023-11-20, 10:07:

whats to elaborate? […]
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robertmo3 wrote on 2023-11-19, 09:35:

God Of Gaming wrote on 2023-11-18, 09:36:

NFS 1 SE.... the console ports of it can be emulated at high res but they have less content, so its less than perfect....

can anyone elaborate on that?

whats to elaborate?

original NFS 1 release for 3DO in 1994, 320x240, in 4DO emulator you can double that res to 640x480
DOS port in 1995, can select 320x240 or 640x480 resolutions in the settings
Win95 port and upgrade NFS 1 SE in 1996, definitive version of the game with most content, also force feedback support, same as prev version, 320x240 and 640x480 only
PS1 and Sega Saturn ports from 1996, should be able to run those in 4K in say duckstation emulator for example, however they have less content than NFS 1 SE

NFS 1 SE has both win95 and dos executables, and you can emulate the dos executable on dosbox on a modern PC, but you cannot force it into rendering higher res than 640x480, also the force feedback does not work when emulated, the only way to play it with force feedback is on a retro PC, whats more, only microsoft sidewinder force feedback gameport wheel seems to be compatible, and this is like the only game for which I have to keep that wheel and have it take up space

if it had like a modern source port, that will allow us to play this game in native 4K on win 7 and linux, and use a modern FFB wheel, that would be great I say, and complete the set, as like I said, every other NFS game can be played on a modern PC in 4K, this is the only one that cannot, if we exclude emulating the PS1 port in duckstation, which as I explained is not the definitive experience of the game

Well the Windows NFSSE can be upscaled to higher resolution using filters+dgVoodoo2 in tandem, but it takes a toll on the game performance.

DracoNihil wrote on 2023-11-18, 20:29:

Hezus wrote on 2023-11-17, 08:05:

I hoped that Night Dive would also do a remake of Terra Nova after they did System Shock.. so far nothing, sadly.

TN:SFC likely has to be rigorously reverse engineered before something like this could even happen. I don't think any actual source code for the game exists as far as I know Night Dive only found the source code for Macintosh port of System Shock.

You might want to give this a shot! Someone made a recreation of the engine in Unity and it supports VR. Still in very early stages but I just a chance to play it on my Valve Index and it's quite cool!

https://schmittler.itch.io/univtn

Hezus wrote on 2023-11-20, 13:04:

You might want to give this a shot! Someone made a recreation of the engine in Unity and it supports VR. Still in very early stages but I just a chance to play it on my Valve Index and it's quite cool!

Well, I don't have VR and Unity Engine things don't play very nice on my system; but it's still a interesting effort nonetheless.

I say this as I play Daggerfall Unity despite Unity Engine being bloated and unoptimized.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-11-20, 11:08:

Well the Windows NFSSE can be upscaled to higher resolution using filters+dgVoodoo2 in tandem, but it takes a toll on the game performance.

dgvoodoo2 requires at least windows vista to work.... win95 executable of NFSSE is really difficult to get running properly even on XP let alone Vista or newer... hell I had trouble getting it to work on a P3+voodoo3 win98se PC... also dgvoodoo2 upscales hardware-accelerated 3d games, Im not sure nfsse is that, pretty sure its software renderer in that game

God Of Gaming wrote on 2023-11-20, 15:40:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-11-20, 11:08:

Well the Windows NFSSE can be upscaled to higher resolution using filters+dgVoodoo2 in tandem, but it takes a toll on the game performance.

dgvoodoo2 requires at least windows vista to work.... win95 executable of NFSSE is really difficult to get running properly even on XP let alone Vista or newer... hell I had trouble getting it to work on a P3+voodoo3 win98se PC... also dgvoodoo2 upscales hardware-accelerated 3d games, Im not sure nfsse is that, pretty sure its software renderer in that game

Yes to be fair it's difficult. I had a headset driver preventing the game from working on Windows 10/11.

There is a "fixed" executable out there that improves things, that could be tried.

dgVoodoo2 upscales anything using DirectDraw or it's extensions, doesn't matter of it's sw or hw accel. Of course you'll need a bilinear filter, or some other filter else the game will just be a zoomed in blocky texture

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-11-20, 16:08:

dgVoodoo2 upscales anything using DirectDraw or it's extensions, doesn't matter of it's sw or hw accel. Of course you'll need a bilinear filter, or some other filter else the game will just be a zoomed in blocky texture

Well thats not rendering it at a native higher resolution, just upscaling the 480p to 4K, it's not the same thing. Emulating the game in DOSBox can already upscale it, but I thought the point of this thread is to actually render the games at high resolution

gerry wrote on 2023-11-13, 17:30:

ah yes, good choices - thats what i think of as high resolution (not 'remasters' like was talked about in Remastering games, is […]
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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2023-11-12, 16:58:

https://i.postimg.cc/R0DFCBnF/IMG20231112234727-1.jpg Would love to see these in SVGA. […]
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Would love to see these in SVGA.

They don't even need to be textured. If they had clean hi-res polygons like those in Su-27 Flanker, Hornet 3.0, or A-10 Cuba!, then I would be a happy camper.

ah yes, good choices - thats what i think of as high resolution (not 'remasters' like was talked about in Remastering games, is it really worth it?)

in fact lots of 3d games might benefit from some svga magic, especially those where the 'thing' being looked at is drawn (not scaled sprites) and hence the pixel count matters more

there's a limit, or rather a decreasing return in quality from having ever more pixels, but at this level and for these kinds of games it could work well

i cant think of many more from that period that would really benefit from it though (i mean there are plenty of games that could look better but wouldn't really be any better)

SWOTL is one of my favourite DOS games and I sunk countless of hours to it back in the day with some of the addons. I still have my old boxed copy with all the paperwork, which is quite surprising considering how much I have lost those games or have missing contents in them. I played BoB: TFH quite a lot too, but I bought SWOTL pretty soon as it was released and didn't return that much to skies above Britain after that.

However, I don't know how well sprite scaling used in those games could actually benefit from higher resolutions. It is relatively "clumsy" techinique and it might look a bit silly when if you increase the detail a lot. Same thing applies to WC1 and WC2 too, for example.

So, games with more or less "pure" Vector graphics could benefit greatly. Few games that cross to my mind are some early Microprose titles such as M1 Tank Platoon or Stealth Fighter 2.0. Pacific Air War or Task Force 1942 would probably work also quite fine, like Dynamix's Aces-series flight simulators.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2023-11-21, 11:22:

SWOTL is one of my favourite DOS games and I sunk countless of hours to it back in the day with some of the addons. I still have […]
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gerry wrote on 2023-11-13, 17:30:

ah yes, good choices - thats what i think of as high resolution (not 'remasters' like was talked about in Remastering games, is […]
Show full quote

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2023-11-12, 16:58:

https://i.postimg.cc/R0DFCBnF/IMG20231112234727-1.jpg Would love to see these in SVGA. […]
Show full quote

Would love to see these in SVGA.

They don't even need to be textured. If they had clean hi-res polygons like those in Su-27 Flanker, Hornet 3.0, or A-10 Cuba!, then I would be a happy camper.

ah yes, good choices - thats what i think of as high resolution (not 'remasters' like was talked about in Remastering games, is it really worth it?)

in fact lots of 3d games might benefit from some svga magic, especially those where the 'thing' being looked at is drawn (not scaled sprites) and hence the pixel count matters more

there's a limit, or rather a decreasing return in quality from having ever more pixels, but at this level and for these kinds of games it could work well

i cant think of many more from that period that would really benefit from it though (i mean there are plenty of games that could look better but wouldn't really be any better)

SWOTL is one of my favourite DOS games and I sunk countless of hours to it back in the day with some of the addons. I still have my old boxed copy with all the paperwork, which is quite surprising considering how much I have lost those games or have missing contents in them. I played BoB: TFH quite a lot too, but I bought SWOTL pretty soon as it was released and didn't return that much to skies above Britain after that.

However, I don't know how well sprite scaling used in those games could actually benefit from higher resolutions. It is relatively "clumsy" techinique and it might look a bit silly when if you increase the detail a lot. Same thing applies to WC1 and WC2 too, for example.

So, games with more or less "pure" Vector graphics could benefit greatly. Few games that cross to my mind are some early Microprose titles such as M1 Tank Platoon or Stealth Fighter 2.0. Pacific Air War or Task Force 1942 would probably work also quite fine, like Dynamix's Aces-series flight simulators.

Well, I'd be happy to see the sprites less pixelated than it is. Of course I don't mind a total engine revamp, which replaces all the 2D sprites with polygons. But even if they merely made the sprites less pixelated, I'd be quite content.

AI upscalers on the original sprites sheets can help with higher res ports (used on some consoles games). It works fairly well but not sure I like it personally but if you want to have 'higher' res sprites, its one possibility. As with all remakes its putting data that wasn't generated by the original artists, so YMMV.

Deano wrote on 2023-11-23, 12:07:

AI upscalers on the original sprites sheets can help with higher res ports (used on some consoles games). It works fairly well but not sure I like it personally but if you want to have 'higher' res sprites, its one possibility. As with all remakes its putting data that wasn't generated by the original artists, so YMMV.

YMMV is Your Mileage/Meterage May Vary

Yea its filling in gaps where none were layed.
If they used svg graphics it would be easier
Scalability vs Raster
Since

Yes I know YMMV is what I meant. You may like it or not, its purely an personal choice.

SVG weren't invented back then, vector formats had many many issues at the time. Whilst some games of course did use them (Flashback, Flash games and even some early graphical text adventures), its not a format that most good sprite editors used, artists were used to, they weren't easy to import and took more space. Basically there was no good reason to use vector art for sprites.

Statistical approximation (AKA AI) is about the best way of upscaling most old games automagically. Its just not a look some people (including myself) may like.

leileilol wrote on 2023-11-17, 04:24:

Comanche
(...)
Terra Nova Strike Force Centauri

It is interesting they somehow added glide and d3d support patches to voxel graphics swiv 3d.

CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2023-11-21, 11:22:

So, games with more or less "pure" Vector graphics could benefit greatly. Few games that cross to my mind are some early Microprose titles such as M1 Tank Platoon or Stealth Fighter 2.0. Pacific Air War or Task Force 1942 would probably work also quite fine, like Dynamix's Aces-series flight simulators.

In case anyone has the time and skills to actually do some high-resolution conversions of these games, I might be able to help with some information:

I managed to reverse-engineer many of the file formats for F-15 Strike Eagle III (reference, although I haven't updated that with all of my findings) which overlap a little with F-117A Stealth Fighter 2.0. Also, based on that work, someone emailed me who was working on reverse-engineering F-15 Strike Eagle II which probably has a lot more in common with F-117. I think they may have been looking at the interface between the game and the video driver to see whether a high-resolution video driver could be produced, even if it required say a special version of DOSBox (as was done with EF2000 Reloaded apparently).

I suspect a lot of the Pacific Air War file formats could be figured out since some people have the source for European Air War and I think some tools were developed based on that.

God Of Gaming wrote on 2023-11-20, 10:07:

if it had like a modern source port, that will allow us to play this game in native 4K on win 7 and linux

one thing that might be possible is replace console files so that you allow the two new tracks in place of some other two old tracks (maybe even somehow add them without removing two old tracks)
Phoenix 3do emulator allows ultra high resolutions too.

Now gimme a 3D glorified "Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego?" 🤣

Bruninho wrote on 2023-11-29, 15:32:

Now gimme a 3D glorified "Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego?" 🤣

Thought about playing NASCAR Racing 2?

A glorified Nascar Racing already exists and is called "iRacing". It uses the same engine used in Nascar Racing 2003

robertmo3 wrote on 2023-11-24, 20:06:

leileilol wrote on 2023-11-17, 04:24:

Comanche
(...)
Terra Nova Strike Force Centauri

It is interesting they somehow added glide and d3d support patches to voxel graphics swiv 3d.

nobody commented on that 😀

robertmo3 wrote on 2024-04-16, 19:48:

robertmo3 wrote on 2023-11-24, 20:06:

leileilol wrote on 2023-11-17, 04:24:

Comanche
(...)
Terra Nova Strike Force Centauri

It is interesting they somehow added glide and d3d support patches to voxel graphics swiv 3d.

nobody commented on that 😀

maybe looking glass was ahead of its time, that and the dark engine added horror and suspense to the only two titles that used it Thief and System Shock.