VOGONS


Reply 20 of 42, by Jo22

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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 01:32:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-03, 01:45:
Hi everyone, […]
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Hi everyone,

If any of you are wiling to join to help finding more Win 2.x/3.0 Real-Mode compatible games, please check some old compilations at the internet archive:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=wi ... %221973%22

Personally, I believe the old CICA CD-ROMs contain early Windows 3.0 compatible games.
Also worth checking are the "Night Owl" series, though they are from 1993 and later, which rather is Windows 3.1 territory.

This was a very helpful idea - I had forgotten about CICA and in fact I had the 1992 CD-ROM set and would often hook this up to the "big computer" and laplink to my little XT and keep clicking until I found something that loaded 😀

You're welcome. ^^
I promise I will help finding some more games or sources.
Problem is, I have no real PC at the moment, so I can't run modern XT emulators for Windows.

And my real XT just got a NEC V20 upgrade.
Essentially, I can either use my old Macintosh, some Win98 era laptops and a Raspberry Pi.

So maybe it's okay if I check games for Real-Mode compatibility only at the moment? 😀

Edit : GnuChess runs on Win3x/808x, I believe.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 21 of 42, by 4xtx

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I've just completed the CICA July 1992 and made a start on "300 Way Cool" ISO I grabbed from Ventusware -
Here's Version 0.2 of the list/archive
(23MB) http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_02_14032021.zip

I'm still messing around with the test process and formatting and expect to make quite a few changes to the next release.

For now:
Test = 627 - Verified Working on 8088 using CGA/VGA = 212
Batting at about 30% which isn't too bad considering

I'm going to start verifying on one of my real 8086 based CGA portables 😀

Last edited by 4xtx on 2021-03-14, 09:24. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 22 of 42, by 4xtx

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-14, 07:59:
You're welcome. ^^ I promise I will help finding some more games or sources. Problem is, I have no real PC at the moment, so I c […]
Show full quote
4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 01:32:
Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-03, 01:45:
Hi everyone, […]
Show full quote

Hi everyone,

If any of you are wiling to join to help finding more Win 2.x/3.0 Real-Mode compatible games, please check some old compilations at the internet archive:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=wi ... %221973%22

Personally, I believe the old CICA CD-ROMs contain early Windows 3.0 compatible games.
Also worth checking are the "Night Owl" series, though they are from 1993 and later, which rather is Windows 3.1 territory.

This was a very helpful idea - I had forgotten about CICA and in fact I had the 1992 CD-ROM set and would often hook this up to the "big computer" and laplink to my little XT and keep clicking until I found something that loaded 😀

You're welcome. ^^
I promise I will help finding some more games or sources.
Problem is, I have no real PC at the moment, so I can't run modern XT emulators for Windows.

And my real XT just got a NEC V20 upgrade.
Essentially, I can either use my old Macintosh, some Win98 era laptops and a Raspberry Pi.

So maybe it's okay if I check games for Real-Mode compatibility only at the moment? 😀

Edit : GnuChess runs on Win3x/808x, I believe.

Congrats on the V20 - with this you will be able to run some of the 186/286 Opcode real mode apps
One of the issues with the use of real mode is (unlike 286 protected, or 386 enhanced) if there's some Opcode that causes a failure the machine can fully lock up.
In fact lock-ups are one of the most common failures I saw.. well that and the good old VB Runtime one 😀

What display do you have on that one?
If it's CGA or VGA then the best way to help would be to test/verify the list 😀

Reply 23 of 42, by radiance32

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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 09:18:
Congrats on the V20 - with this you will be able to run some of the 186/286 Opcode real mode apps One of the issues with the use […]
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Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-14, 07:59:
You're welcome. ^^ I promise I will help finding some more games or sources. Problem is, I have no real PC at the moment, so I c […]
Show full quote
4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 01:32:

This was a very helpful idea - I had forgotten about CICA and in fact I had the 1992 CD-ROM set and would often hook this up to the "big computer" and laplink to my little XT and keep clicking until I found something that loaded 😀

You're welcome. ^^
I promise I will help finding some more games or sources.
Problem is, I have no real PC at the moment, so I can't run modern XT emulators for Windows.

And my real XT just got a NEC V20 upgrade.
Essentially, I can either use my old Macintosh, some Win98 era laptops and a Raspberry Pi.

So maybe it's okay if I check games for Real-Mode compatibility only at the moment? 😀

Edit : GnuChess runs on Win3x/808x, I believe.

Congrats on the V20 - with this you will be able to run some of the 186/286 Opcode real mode apps
One of the issues with the use of real mode is (unlike 286 protected, or 386 enhanced) if there's some Opcode that causes a failure the machine can fully lock up.
In fact lock-ups are one of the most common failures I saw.. well that and the good old VB Runtime one 😀

What display do you have on that one?
If it's CGA or VGA then the best way to help would be to test/verify the list 😀

If it's to go onto my official list of applications in the first post of this thread,
it must comply with the following:

* Run on windows 3.0 in real-mode (eg start with "win /r" if you're running on a 286 or 386 testing system to make sure you're running in real-mode)
* Run on any CPU from a 8086 upwards
* Run and be "playable" with CGA graphics (640x200 mono)

Those are the required specs for an app or game to go onto my "big list of 8086 real-mode Windows 3.0 compatible Software" 😀

Cheers,
Terrence

PS: It would be handy if you could include a list of the games (name of directory) and the full title of the game in a txt file or something in the archive,
so i can easily add it to the "big list" 😀

Reply 24 of 42, by 4xtx

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radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-15, 01:12:
If it's to go onto my official list of applications in the first post of this thread, it must comply with the following: […]
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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 09:18:
Congrats on the V20 - with this you will be able to run some of the 186/286 Opcode real mode apps One of the issues with the use […]
Show full quote
Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-14, 07:59:
You're welcome. ^^ I promise I will help finding some more games or sources. Problem is, I have no real PC at the moment, so I c […]
Show full quote

You're welcome. ^^
I promise I will help finding some more games or sources.
Problem is, I have no real PC at the moment, so I can't run modern XT emulators for Windows.

And my real XT just got a NEC V20 upgrade.
Essentially, I can either use my old Macintosh, some Win98 era laptops and a Raspberry Pi.

So maybe it's okay if I check games for Real-Mode compatibility only at the moment? 😀

Edit : GnuChess runs on Win3x/808x, I believe.

Congrats on the V20 - with this you will be able to run some of the 186/286 Opcode real mode apps
One of the issues with the use of real mode is (unlike 286 protected, or 386 enhanced) if there's some Opcode that causes a failure the machine can fully lock up.
In fact lock-ups are one of the most common failures I saw.. well that and the good old VB Runtime one 😀

What display do you have on that one?
If it's CGA or VGA then the best way to help would be to test/verify the list 😀

If it's to go onto my official list of applications in the first post of this thread,
it must comply with the following:

* Run on windows 3.0 in real-mode (eg start with "win /r" if you're running on a 286 or 386 testing system to make sure you're running in real-mode)
* Run on any CPU from a 8086 upwards
* Run and be "playable" with CGA graphics (640x200 mono)

Those are the required specs for an app or game to go onto my "big list of 8086 real-mode Windows 3.0 compatible Software" 😀

Cheers,
Terrence

PS: It would be handy if you could include a list of the games (name of directory) and the full title of the game in a txt file or something in the archive,
so i can easily add it to the "big list" 😀

You need to be aware that running in win /r does not mean it will work on an 8086/8086.
A 186, 286 or above can run apps in real mode that an 8088/8086 will fail in.
For example I found with Wordzap I could run this in dosbox with win /r but when running on a real 8088/8086 (or emulated under 86box) it would fail.
If I run Wordzap under a 86box using 286 CPU it will also work with win /r
Just keep that in mind 😀

Everything in release 2 of my file was tested on an 8088 on 86box and about 10% (so far) is tested on a real 8086 based Portable (Sharp PC-7100) in CGA.

Reply 25 of 42, by radiance32

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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-15, 01:29:
You need to be aware that running in win /r does not mean it will work on an 8086/8086. A 186, 286 or above can run apps in real […]
Show full quote
radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-15, 01:12:
If it's to go onto my official list of applications in the first post of this thread, it must comply with the following: […]
Show full quote
4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 09:18:
Congrats on the V20 - with this you will be able to run some of the 186/286 Opcode real mode apps One of the issues with the use […]
Show full quote

Congrats on the V20 - with this you will be able to run some of the 186/286 Opcode real mode apps
One of the issues with the use of real mode is (unlike 286 protected, or 386 enhanced) if there's some Opcode that causes a failure the machine can fully lock up.
In fact lock-ups are one of the most common failures I saw.. well that and the good old VB Runtime one 😀

What display do you have on that one?
If it's CGA or VGA then the best way to help would be to test/verify the list 😀

If it's to go onto my official list of applications in the first post of this thread,
it must comply with the following:

* Run on windows 3.0 in real-mode (eg start with "win /r" if you're running on a 286 or 386 testing system to make sure you're running in real-mode)
* Run on any CPU from a 8086 upwards
* Run and be "playable" with CGA graphics (640x200 mono)

Those are the required specs for an app or game to go onto my "big list of 8086 real-mode Windows 3.0 compatible Software" 😀

Cheers,
Terrence

PS: It would be handy if you could include a list of the games (name of directory) and the full title of the game in a txt file or something in the archive,
so i can easily add it to the "big list" 😀

You need to be aware that running in win /r does not mean it will work on an 8086/8086.
A 186, 286 or above can run apps in real mode that an 8088/8086 will fail in.
For example I found with Wordzap I could run this in dosbox with win /r but when running on a real 8088/8086 (or emulated under 86box) it would fail.
If I run Wordzap under a 86box using 286 CPU it will also work with win /r
Just keep that in mind 😀

Everything in release 2 of my file was tested on an 8088 on 86box and about 10% (so far) is tested on a real 8086 based Portable (Sharp PC-7100) in CGA.

Yes,

That's why I added the 2nd line in the requirements: "* Run on any CPU from a 8086 upwards"...

I've encountered a few of these applications. They run on windows 3.0 in real-mode, but require a 286 or better CPU.

They usually install fine, but when you try to run the executable in windows, they give an error message like "You need a 286 or better CPU to run this application."
They probably use some 286 opcodes, or, require the himem.sys to be loaded and have access to extended memory, or some other reason...

Cheers,
Terrence

Reply 26 of 42, by 4xtx

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radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-15, 02:04:
Yes, […]
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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-15, 01:29:
You need to be aware that running in win /r does not mean it will work on an 8086/8086. A 186, 286 or above can run apps in real […]
Show full quote
radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-15, 01:12:
If it's to go onto my official list of applications in the first post of this thread, it must comply with the following: […]
Show full quote

If it's to go onto my official list of applications in the first post of this thread,
it must comply with the following:

* Run on windows 3.0 in real-mode (eg start with "win /r" if you're running on a 286 or 386 testing system to make sure you're running in real-mode)
* Run on any CPU from a 8086 upwards
* Run and be "playable" with CGA graphics (640x200 mono)

Those are the required specs for an app or game to go onto my "big list of 8086 real-mode Windows 3.0 compatible Software" 😀

Cheers,
Terrence

PS: It would be handy if you could include a list of the games (name of directory) and the full title of the game in a txt file or something in the archive,
so i can easily add it to the "big list" 😀

You need to be aware that running in win /r does not mean it will work on an 8086/8086.
A 186, 286 or above can run apps in real mode that an 8088/8086 will fail in.
For example I found with Wordzap I could run this in dosbox with win /r but when running on a real 8088/8086 (or emulated under 86box) it would fail.
If I run Wordzap under a 86box using 286 CPU it will also work with win /r
Just keep that in mind 😀

Everything in release 2 of my file was tested on an 8088 on 86box and about 10% (so far) is tested on a real 8086 based Portable (Sharp PC-7100) in CGA.

Yes,

That's why I added the 2nd line in the requirements: "* Run on any CPU from a 8086 upwards"...

I've encountered a few of these applications. They run on windows 3.0 in real-mode, but require a 286 or better CPU.

They usually install fine, but when you try to run the executable in windows, they give an error message like "You need a 286 or better CPU to run this application."
They probably use some 286 opcodes, or, require the himem.sys to be loaded and have access to extended memory, or some other reason...

Cheers,
Terrence

It's likely the author just didn't target the 8086/8088 as the 286 was much more popular for Windows use.
Some titles on CICA came with source code and a few also failed on the 8086, if someone's got some debugging nous they could probably pick up the areas that are causing the fail.
Himem shouldn't have anything to do with that as that's more related to Standard mode testing.

Reply 27 of 42, by radiance32

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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 09:16:
I've just completed the CICA July 1992 and made a start on "300 Way Cool" ISO I grabbed from Ventusware - Here's Version 0.2 of […]
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I've just completed the CICA July 1992 and made a start on "300 Way Cool" ISO I grabbed from Ventusware -
Here's Version 0.2 of the list/archive
(23MB) http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_02_14032021.zip

I'm still messing around with the test process and formatting and expect to make quite a few changes to the next release.

For now:
Test = 627 - Verified Working on 8088 using CGA/VGA = 212
Batting at about 30% which isn't too bad considering

I'm going to start verifying on one of my real 8086 based CGA portables 😀

It would be cool if you could separate the "games" from the "toys" 😀
I found several "toys" in your first download link...
Eg, games are actual apps with graphics and a game you can play,
whereas toys are silly things like an app that flashes the contents of it's windows on/off
or which makes your windows "dance" slightly in your windows UI.
I don't think the "big list" should waste space on these "toys"...

What do you think ?

Terrence

Reply 28 of 42, by 4xtx

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radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-15, 02:46:
It would be cool if you could separate the "games" from the "toys" :) I found several "toys" in your first download link... Eg, […]
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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-14, 09:16:
I've just completed the CICA July 1992 and made a start on "300 Way Cool" ISO I grabbed from Ventusware - Here's Version 0.2 of […]
Show full quote

I've just completed the CICA July 1992 and made a start on "300 Way Cool" ISO I grabbed from Ventusware -
Here's Version 0.2 of the list/archive
(23MB) http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_02_14032021.zip

I'm still messing around with the test process and formatting and expect to make quite a few changes to the next release.

For now:
Test = 627 - Verified Working on 8088 using CGA/VGA = 212
Batting at about 30% which isn't too bad considering

I'm going to start verifying on one of my real 8086 based CGA portables 😀

It would be cool if you could separate the "games" from the "toys" 😀
I found several "toys" in your first download link...
Eg, games are actual apps with graphics and a game you can play,
whereas toys are silly things like an app that flashes the contents of it's windows on/off
or which makes your windows "dance" slightly in your windows UI.
I don't think the "big list" should waste space on these "toys"...

What do you think ?

Terrence

On the 2nd release (posted yesterday) I put a category column, did you see this? Right now it just says games, utils and demo but I'll have a go at categorizing in more detail in upcoming releases

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-03-15, 19:52. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 29 of 42, by radiance32

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4xtx wrote on 2021-03-15, 05:30:
4xtx wrote on 2021-03-15, 05:29:
radiance32 wrote on 2021-03-15, 02:46:
It would be cool if you could separate the "games" from the "toys" :) I found several "toys" in your first download link... Eg, […]
Show full quote

It would be cool if you could separate the "games" from the "toys" 😀
I found several "toys" in your first download link...
Eg, games are actual apps with graphics and a game you can play,
whereas toys are silly things like an app that flashes the contents of it's windows on/off
or which makes your windows "dance" slightly in your windows UI.
I don't think the "big list" should waste space on these "toys"...

What do you think ?

Terrence

On the 2nd release (posted yesterday) I put a category column, did you see this? Right now it just says games, utils and demo but I'll have a go at categorizing in more detail in upcoming releases

I did'nt notice it as i just browsed the files...
i'll double-check that column, but, if you can expand upon it like you mentioned, maybe even providing categories like "adventure", "action", "platformer", "puzzle", "strategy" etc...

Cheers,
Terrence

Reply 30 of 42, by Jo22

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Hi again, what about utilities - especially multimedia applications ?
I think I've got a few picture viewers, for example, that might be compatible to Real-Mode Windows.. 🙂

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 31 of 42, by radiance32

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-03-29, 07:34:

Hi again, what about utilities - especially multimedia applications ?
I think I've got a few picture viewers, for example, that might be compatible to Real-Mode Windows.. 🙂

That would be great 😀
Please post them and i'll check them out 😀

Terrence

Reply 32 of 42, by 4xtx

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Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip
927 Titles (after removing duplicates and non-windows apps)
237 Tested OK under CGA (15 to be tested) and 210 VGA (173 still to be tested).

Hope this helps your testing and project - unsure when I will do another upload at this stage

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Reply 33 of 42, by Hezus

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4xtx wrote on 2021-04-02, 05:28:
Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip 927 Titles (after removing […]
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Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip
927 Titles (after removing duplicates and non-windows apps)
237 Tested OK under CGA (15 to be tested) and 210 VGA (173 still to be tested).

Hope this helps your testing and project - unsure when I will do another upload at this stage

Great work 😀 I've got 2 XT systems to test this on (ibm model 30 with v30 and mcga & v20 with vga) as soon as I find the time.

Visit my YT Channel!

Reply 34 of 42, by 4xtx

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Hezus wrote on 2021-04-02, 09:00:
4xtx wrote on 2021-04-02, 05:28:
Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip 927 Titles (after removing […]
Show full quote

Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip
927 Titles (after removing duplicates and non-windows apps)
237 Tested OK under CGA (15 to be tested) and 210 VGA (173 still to be tested).

Hope this helps your testing and project - unsure when I will do another upload at this stage

Great work 😀 I've got 2 XT systems to test this on (ibm model 30 with v30 and mcga & v20 with vga) as soon as I find the time.

MCGA with windows 3.0 I wonder what resolution this would use?
If it's using 320x200 you may be able to run some of the one's listed as "CGA OK" but the width will be a concern.
Interested to hear how you go 😀

Reply 35 of 42, by radiance32

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4xtx wrote on 2021-04-02, 05:28:
Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip 927 Titles (after removing […]
Show full quote

Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip
927 Titles (after removing duplicates and non-windows apps)
237 Tested OK under CGA (15 to be tested) and 210 VGA (173 still to be tested).

Hope this helps your testing and project - unsure when I will do another upload at this stage

I can download your PDF fine, but that archive just times out...

Terrence

Reply 36 of 42, by digger

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I remember playing Tetris from the first Microsoft Windows Entertainment Pack (WEP) on Windows 3.0 on my Dad's Olivetti M24, in a nice crisp 640x400 2-color resolution. The M24 originally had an 8086 CPU that we later swapped out for a NEC V30. So naturally, the only way Windows 3.0 could run on that machine was in real mode.

So yeah, at least Microsoft Entertainment Pack 1 belongs on this list. Not sure about the subsequent Entertainment Packs that Microsoft released later, though. Wikipedia lists all of them as being "16-bit", but I'm not sure if some of the later editions possibly required 286 standard mode, or perhaps the multimedia extensions, which also wouldn't work in real mode. I don't think so, however. But perhaps others here can verify that.

Oh, it's not just games that you are compiling this list for, right? I also remember using Paintshop Pro on that same machine in Windows 3.0. I don't remember which version that was, though. According to Wikipedia, that must have been the first release, version 1.0. It says that version "supports Windows 3.0 Standard/Enhanced mode". But it apparently ran in real mode as well.

Oh, and I played with an early version of Excel (and possibly also Word?) on that same machine as well.

Reply 37 of 42, by 4xtx

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radiance32 wrote on 2021-04-02, 22:59:
4xtx wrote on 2021-04-02, 05:28:
Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip 927 Titles (after removing […]
Show full quote

Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip
927 Titles (after removing duplicates and non-windows apps)
237 Tested OK under CGA (15 to be tested) and 210 VGA (173 still to be tested).

Hope this helps your testing and project - unsure when I will do another upload at this stage

I can download your PDF fine, but that archive just times out...

Terrence

Weird - that's my personal server (hosted in Australia).. anyway I uploaded it to a random sharing service hope it works: https://gofile.io/d/r2WOoN

Reply 38 of 42, by radiance32

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4xtx wrote on 2021-04-03, 00:28:
radiance32 wrote on 2021-04-02, 22:59:
4xtx wrote on 2021-04-02, 05:28:
Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip 927 Titles (after removing […]
Show full quote

Hi, I've uploaded v0.3 of the archive (42MB) here: http://4am.org/win3x/w3rm/W3RMCSL_03_20032021.zip
927 Titles (after removing duplicates and non-windows apps)
237 Tested OK under CGA (15 to be tested) and 210 VGA (173 still to be tested).

Hope this helps your testing and project - unsure when I will do another upload at this stage

I can download your PDF fine, but that archive just times out...

Terrence

Weird - that's my personal server (hosted in Australia).. anyway I uploaded it to a random sharing service hope it works: https://gofile.io/d/r2WOoN

That's it, got it! 😉
Maybe there was some temporary issue???

Anyways,
I have a busy dayjob, so it's gonna take me some time to go through all this...
BTW, where did you get the time to do all this (the 2 documents that test all the games and show the screenshots, must have taken you weeks to test all that!)

Cheers,
Terrence

Reply 39 of 42, by 4xtx

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radiance32 wrote on 2021-04-03, 05:54:
That's it, got it! ;) Maybe there was some temporary issue??? […]
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4xtx wrote on 2021-04-03, 00:28:
radiance32 wrote on 2021-04-02, 22:59:

I can download your PDF fine, but that archive just times out...

Terrence

Weird - that's my personal server (hosted in Australia).. anyway I uploaded it to a random sharing service hope it works: https://gofile.io/d/r2WOoN

That's it, got it! 😉
Maybe there was some temporary issue???

Anyways,
I have a busy dayjob, so it's gonna take me some time to go through all this...
BTW, where did you get the time to do all this (the 2 documents that test all the games and show the screenshots, must have taken you weeks to test all that!)

Cheers,
Terrence

Cool well hope it can serve some purpose for you 😀

This project started around August 2020 and the first 3 revisions of this list are extracted from some of that work plus some "new" testing.
I can't recall how long it's taken to get the list to this state as initially I faded in and out of testing over a few months - the spreadsheet/screenshot document was only a week or so, nothing major..

I also have a busy day (and sometimes night) job and am constantly distracted with other projects so not sure when I'll continue updating my list but if I do I'll check back in here.