VOGONS


Reply 20 of 46, by BloodyCactus

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skel2raw wrote on 2020-03-05, 07:25:

Ok, I stand corrected... Most of the cool electronics are in the US AND Japan. I was just searching for the Edirol UM550/880. The UM880 looks so beautiful and does exactly what I need. It's like love at first sight. The problem is the ones on eBay are mostly from Japan with 100v. On Kleinanzeigen etc. I couldn't even find one offer.

if you like the UM880, also look for its older brother, A880.

--/\-[ Stu : Bloody Cactus :: [ https://bloodycactus.com :: http://kråketær.com ]-/\--

Reply 21 of 46, by yawetaG

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skel2raw wrote on 2020-03-04, 21:52:

In Germany... For some reason, all the cool electronics stuff is in the US 🙁

Ebay Kleinanzeige (or however it is spelled) - basically a "local ad"-type listing that is specific to Ebay Germany.

UM550 uses a separate PSU, so you can get a Japanese one and buy the appropriate modern-day Roland PSU for it.

Reply 22 of 46, by dionb

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skel2raw wrote on 2020-03-05, 07:25:

[...]

Ok, I stand corrected... Most of the cool electronics are in the US AND Japan. I was just searching for the Edirol UM550/880. The UM880 looks so beautiful and does exactly what I need. It's like love at first sight. The problem is the ones on eBay are mostly from Japan with 100v. On Kleinanzeigen etc. I couldn't even find one offer.

Patience... It took me about three months of daily checking the NL equivalent to find one at a price I was prepared to pay.

And yes, Roland/Edirol is Japanese, so it's very common over there.

Reply 23 of 46, by kolderman

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> roland mpu 104+105 in combo

I have this and it's great. Very nice combo. I got mine from a music shop parts seller quite cheap.

Reply 24 of 46, by skel2raw

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kolderman wrote on 2020-03-06, 09:38:

> roland mpu 104+105 in combo

I have this and it's great. Very nice combo. I got mine from a music shop parts seller quite cheap.

They are nice, but checking ebay I'll easily have to pay somewhere around 150 € for just one of them. Unfortunately I do not have any such shops anywhere close to where I live.

I found a midi patcher from MOTU, the Motu timepiece, as cheap as 30 to 50 euros. Does anyone have experience with this one? Is it possible to use it without connecting it to a PC? The device I need for my setup should definitely have buttons to select the midi ports.

Reply 25 of 46, by BloodyCactus

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skel2raw wrote on 2020-03-06, 15:11:

I found a midi patcher from MOTU, the Motu timepiece, as cheap as 30 to 50 euros. Does anyone have experience with this one? Is it possible to use it without connecting it to a PC? The device I need for my setup should definitely have buttons to select the midi ports.

timepiece or timepeace AV? timepiece has no buttons. Timepiece AV has 4 knobs on the front, and is not really designed for non-software use. I suggest you read the AV pdf manual to see first.
https://mpe.berklee.edu/documents/studio/manu … epiece%20AV.pdf

--/\-[ Stu : Bloody Cactus :: [ https://bloodycactus.com :: http://kråketær.com ]-/\--

Reply 26 of 46, by yawetaG

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Also be aware that the MOTU drivers are rather hit or miss with regards to getting them to work. For some people they work flawlessly, while other have no end of problems with them. Plus selected OS'es only depending on the age of the unit.

There's a reason they are cheap...

Reply 27 of 46, by skel2raw

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Thank you guys for the input. I decided to go with an Edirol UM-880. It's a beautiful looking device with all the functions I need, enough ports and works without software. Just need to lookout for a decent priced one now.

Reply 28 of 46, by Loganix

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dionb wrote on 2020-03-04, 18:21:

I use an Edirol 550 (5 in plus 5 out), the 880 does 8 in 8 out. The advantage over a simple switch is that you can use one source for multiple outputs at the same time. Plus nice snazzy 19" rackmount. However cyclone3d's suggestion is most definitely cheaper.

Would the Edirol 550 be a good choice with connecting a MT-32 and a SC-55 with an dos/98 PC, for now I have AWE64 but hopefully in the future to get an mpu-401 midi card, and use the USB interface from Edirol 550 for a Win 7 pc with DOSbox or ScummVM as examples?

I was thinking about getting a Kenton Electronics Thru-5 Thru 5 MIDI SPLITTER https://www.ebay.com/itm/122701176041 and a Roland UM-ONE mk2 - USB/MIDI-interface. But maybe the Edirol 550 would be a better choice?

I don't want to daisy-chain the devices, I only want to have one on at the time.

Thanks for any input.

loganix.nu

Reply 29 of 46, by cyclone3d

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I think the Edirol 550 would be a better choice than the splitter and the UM-ONE mk2. Reason I say this is because the splitter is going to output to all outputs all the time. With the 550, you can switch which inputs and outputs are active.

You could also leave both systems hooked up at the same time with the 550.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 30 of 46, by Loganix

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Thank you for your reply cyclone3d. I agree, it seems that the 550 would be the best choice. Haven't had much luck finding a 550 here in Sweden for sale though, so the simpler choice would be the Kenton and the UM-one mk2 for now perhaps. There are some 550 up for sale from Japan, but one of them were a bit rusty in the sockets going for about 115USD and about 25USD shipping. There's also a 880 for about 240USD here in Europe, but it feels way to big for my setup.

You wouldn't happen to know an good alternative to the 550?

Thanks a lot.

loganix.nu

Reply 31 of 46, by cyclone3d

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You could always use a couple manual switch boxes. They are normally DIN-5 or PS/2 and vga.

Use one for switching between computers and the other for switching in between the MIDI devices.

There is also the Motu Micro Express USB which will do what you want in one box as well though I don't think the front panel controls are as nice as the Edirol unit.

If you don't plan on adding any more MIDI devices or computers to your setup, you could always go with a 2x2 with USB though you would need to check the latency as I am unsure of any specific one since I don't have any.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 32 of 46, by dionb

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Loganix wrote on 2020-08-11, 20:31:

Thank you for your reply cyclone3d. I agree, it seems that the 550 would be the best choice. Haven't had much luck finding a 550 here in Sweden for sale though, so the simpler choice would be the Kenton and the UM-one mk2 for now perhaps. There are some 550 up for sale from Japan, but one of them were a bit rusty in the sockets going for about 115USD and about 25USD shipping. There's also a 880 for about 240USD here in Europe, but it feels way to big for my setup.

You wouldn't happen to know an good alternative to the 550?

Thanks a lot.

I got mine locally pretty cheap (EUR 50). Now one of the inputs has died on me, and due to the odd design with one input on the front, that leaves me with just three inputs at the rear, which isn't enough. I'm looking for something else as well.

A couple of options:

- Roland A-880 8 in, 8 out. Primitive, but does the job excellently. Unfortunately rare/expensive outside of Japan
- Ensoniq KMX-8. 8x8, very simple interface. Never seen one in wild but would like to.
- Edirol UM880. 8x8 instead of UM550's 5x5. Great, but usually VERY expensive.
- Yamaha MJC8. 8x8. Looks good, but menu-heavy configuration.
- Kawai MAV-8. 4x8, which isn't many inputs for the size of the beast. If I could find one very cheap I might do it, but that's not likely.
- Korg KMP-68. 6x8, again the wrong way round for my purposes. Looks really good (turn knobs 😀 ) but tends to be expensive & in Japan.
- Akai ME80P, 6x8, see above, just more 80's HIFI vibe
- MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV, 8x8. Probably the cheapest option, but as it is so much more than just a patchbay, I'm a bit intimidated by its complexity.

Then there are also patchbays with little or no controls on the device itself, designed to be controlled by PC. Sounds great, but driver support is usually so vintage it becomes on-topic here ( 😜 ). I just want buttons that work, but if you want to consider software, take a look at OPCODE Studio 64X, Emagic AMT8 etc.

Reply 33 of 46, by darry

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I used to see a lot of MIDI stuff in pawn shops . That's where I got my MIDISPORT 2x4 .

Reply 34 of 46, by Cloudschatze

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For a MIDI setup involving just an MT-32 and SC-55, a splitter or switch is a bit overkill. I'd simply route the MT-32's audio output through the SC-55, MIDI-chain the two, and then "switch" between them both using SysEx. Job done.

Reply 35 of 46, by dionb

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In my case at least, it's not the outputs but the inputs that necessitates something more. At the output end I feed MIDI to an MT-32, SC-55ST, MU50 and a Roland piano for good measure (but that's just a gimmick so could drop if needed). That could be done with a MIDI chain. However I have multiple computers I want hooked up and I don't want to have to re-wire every time I change computers, so I want at least four MIDI in, preferably 6 or 8.

Reply 36 of 46, by Loganix

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dionb wrote on 2020-08-11, 21:30:
I got mine locally pretty cheap (EUR 50). Now one of the inputs has died on me, and due to the odd design with one input on the […]
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Loganix wrote on 2020-08-11, 20:31:

Thank you for your reply cyclone3d. I agree, it seems that the 550 would be the best choice. Haven't had much luck finding a 550 here in Sweden for sale though, so the simpler choice would be the Kenton and the UM-one mk2 for now perhaps. There are some 550 up for sale from Japan, but one of them were a bit rusty in the sockets going for about 115USD and about 25USD shipping. There's also a 880 for about 240USD here in Europe, but it feels way to big for my setup.

You wouldn't happen to know an good alternative to the 550?

Thanks a lot.

I got mine locally pretty cheap (EUR 50). Now one of the inputs has died on me, and due to the odd design with one input on the front, that leaves me with just three inputs at the rear, which isn't enough. I'm looking for something else as well.

A couple of options:

- Roland A-880 8 in, 8 out. Primitive, but does the job excellently. Unfortunately rare/expensive outside of Japan
- Ensoniq KMX-8. 8x8, very simple interface. Never seen one in wild but would like to.
- Edirol UM880. 8x8 instead of UM550's 5x5. Great, but usually VERY expensive.
- Yamaha MJC8. 8x8. Looks good, but menu-heavy configuration.
- Kawai MAV-8. 4x8, which isn't many inputs for the size of the beast. If I could find one very cheap I might do it, but that's not likely.
- Korg KMP-68. 6x8, again the wrong way round for my purposes. Looks really good (turn knobs 😀 ) but tends to be expensive & in Japan.
- Akai ME80P, 6x8, see above, just more 80's HIFI vibe
- MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV, 8x8. Probably the cheapest option, but as it is so much more than just a patchbay, I'm a bit intimidated by its complexity.

Then there are also patchbays with little or no controls on the device itself, designed to be controlled by PC. Sounds great, but driver support is usually so vintage it becomes on-topic here ( 😜 ). I just want buttons that work, but if you want to consider software, take a look at OPCODE Studio 64X, Emagic AMT8 etc.

Thank you for all your suggestions dionb. Edirol UM880 and UM550 seems to be the best options since I also want to be able to connect to several computers in the long run and use the USB interface instead of an Roland UM-ONE mk2 - USB/MIDI-interface for my Win 7 computer. Would you say about 240 USD for an UM880 is an OK price?

Cloudschatze, Yes I agree that it's a bit overkill at the moment. I'm just thinking a head as well, if I want to get more modules in the future and connect to several computers with an ease of a switch-box and do some comparing. I'm quite new at this with midi and your suggestion will work the best for now I believe. Still, I need to read up some more on how to use this SysEx.

Thank you all for your help.

loganix.nu

Reply 37 of 46, by yawetaG

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Some comments:

dionb wrote on 2020-08-11, 21:30:

A couple of options:

- Roland A-880 8 in, 8 out. Primitive, but does the job excellently. Unfortunately rare/expensive outside of Japan

Get a Japanese one and do the 5 Volt wall wart conversion.

- Edirol UM880. 8x8 instead of UM550's 5x5. Great, but usually VERY expensive.

Great solution if you are using older operating systems. However, no new drivers will be produced, and getting the existing ones to work gets harder and harder.

- Yamaha MJC8. 8x8. Looks good, but menu-heavy configuration.

Can do some interesting tricks with MIDI and sysex. Old Yamaha unit, so menu-diving is to be expected.

- Kawai MAV-8. 4x8, which isn't many inputs for the size of the beast. If I could find one very cheap I might do it, but that's not likely.

You can find them for as low as $15 in Japan. Fully mechanical and build like a tank (like most Kawai gear).

- Korg KMP-68. 6x8, again the wrong way round for my purposes. Looks really good (turn knobs 😀 ) but tends to be expensive & in Japan.

Turn knobs can wear out.

- Akai ME80P, 6x8, see above, just more 80's HIFI vibe

Ancient, complex, manual not online, can do some cool things, suffers from age-related electronics issues that can make it go crazy and/or just fail suddenly.

- MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV, 8x8. Probably the cheapest option, but as it is so much more than just a patchbay, I'm a bit intimidated by its complexity.p

There are multiple versions, some with atrocious driver support, some Mac-only, some with firmware issues. Usually will work well when you're lucky, on a limited set of OS'es (basically limit yourself to an OS that was released when your particular unit was current).

Then there are also patchbays with little or no controls on the device itself, designed to be controlled by PC. Sounds great, but driver support is usually so vintage it becomes on-topic here ( 😜 ). I just want buttons that work, but if you want to consider software, take a look at OPCODE Studio 64X, Emagic AMT8 etc.

Emagic units can be programmed to recall 100 or so programs, so are handy if your setup doesn't change much. Unitor Mk. I has no USB, only serial. Unitor Mk. II has USB, AMT8 is cheaper version of Unitor Mk. II with less features. It's possible to stack up to 8 units via serial cable. The problem is that the patch editor software is a modified version of SoundDiver that is not particularly stable and hasn't been updated since years, but apparently there is a special Apple driver that makes the USB version work on modern Macs.

Loganix wrote on 2020-08-12, 13:02:

Thank you for all your suggestions dionb. Edirol UM880 and UM550 seems to be the best options since I also want to be able to connect to several computers in the long run and use the USB interface instead of an Roland UM-ONE mk2 - USB/MIDI-interface for my Win 7 computer. Would you say about 240 USD for an UM880 is an OK price?

Way too high, IMHO. Also, I'm not sure the drivers will work properly on Windows 7 and later (no new drivers will ever be produced because it's a legacy product).

For that price you can almost buy one of the modern equivalents...new.

Modern MIDI interfaces/patchbays (19", the same manufactuers also have smaller units):
- Motu MIDI Express XT (can work without computer)
- Motu MIDI Express 128
- iConnectivity mioXL
- Miditech Midiface 16x16
- ESI M8U eX
- Future product: Kenton Interchanger, which probably will cost about twice what the other modern patchbays cost, but probably will pack a lot of features are have no problem with sysex and continue working for decades.

Reply 38 of 46, by dionb

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-08-12, 16:49:
Some comments: […]
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Some comments:

dionb wrote on 2020-08-11, 21:30:

A couple of options:

- Roland A-880 8 in, 8 out. Primitive, but does the job excellently. Unfortunately rare/expensive outside of Japan

Get a Japanese one and do the 5 Volt wall wart conversion.

- Edirol UM880. 8x8 instead of UM550's 5x5. Great, but usually VERY expensive.

Great solution if you are using older operating systems. However, no new drivers will be produced, and getting the existing ones to work gets harder and harder.

- Yamaha MJC8. 8x8. Looks good, but menu-heavy configuration.

Can do some interesting tricks with MIDI and sysex. Old Yamaha unit, so menu-diving is to be expected.

- Kawai MAV-8. 4x8, which isn't many inputs for the size of the beast. If I could find one very cheap I might do it, but that's not likely.

You can find them for as low as $15 in Japan. Fully mechanical and build like a tank (like most Kawai gear).

- Korg KMP-68. 6x8, again the wrong way round for my purposes. Looks really good (turn knobs 😀 ) but tends to be expensive & in Japan.

Turn knobs can wear out.

- Akai ME80P, 6x8, see above, just more 80's HIFI vibe

Ancient, complex, manual not online, can do some cool things, suffers from age-related electronics issues that can make it go crazy and/or just fail suddenly.

- MOTU MIDI Timepiece AV, 8x8. Probably the cheapest option, but as it is so much more than just a patchbay, I'm a bit intimidated by its complexity.p

There are multiple versions, some with atrocious driver support, some Mac-only, some with firmware issues. Usually will work well when you're lucky, on a limited set of OS'es (basically limit yourself to an OS that was released when your particular unit was current).

Then there are also patchbays with little or no controls on the device itself, designed to be controlled by PC. Sounds great, but driver support is usually so vintage it becomes on-topic here ( 😜 ). I just want buttons that work, but if you want to consider software, take a look at OPCODE Studio 64X, Emagic AMT8 etc.

Emagic units can be programmed to recall 100 or so programs, so are handy if your setup doesn't change much. Unitor Mk. I has no USB, only serial. Unitor Mk. II has USB, AMT8 is cheaper version of Unitor Mk. II with less features. It's possible to stack up to 8 units via serial cable. The problem is that the patch editor software is a modified version of SoundDiver that is not particularly stable and hasn't been updated since years, but apparently there is a special Apple driver that makes the USB version work on modern Macs.

Tbh not interested in any sw interfaces, I just want to be able to select manually, preferably without any menus. Any modern systems I need to hookup will do so through dedicated MIDI interfaces (my 2016-era 'support' PC has a PCI card with MIDI in/out). That means for 8x8 I'm limited to A-880 and UM880, with Korg if I drop requirement to 6x8 (and can find one cheap). Still, not in a hurry here, so for now I'll just keep using my UM550 and watch out for alternatives until I see one for a price I'm willing to pay (not multiple hundreds of EUR).