VOGONS


Sound Card Recordings

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Reply 180 of 265, by schlang

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since I had the time I added five recordings using my sc-55 and my mu-50:

- Duke3D Theme
- Raptor Hangar
- Tie Fighter Main Menu
- Warcraft Human1
- Whacky Wheels Main Menu

midi files: http://www.mediafire.com/?uyr11fvdu149duv
mu-50: http://www.mediafire.com/?aivs7j5vjhboyhp
sc-55: http://www.mediafire.com/?bd566pu8jb7f16d

hf 😀

PC#1: K6-III+ 400 | 512MB | Geforce4 | Voodoo1 | SB Live | AWE64 | GUS PNP Pro
PC#2: 486DX2-66 | 64MB | Riva128 | AWE64 | GUS PNP | PAS16
PC#3: 386DX-40 | 32MB | CL-GD5434 | SB Pro | GUS MAX | PAS16

Think you know your games music? Show us: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37532

Reply 181 of 265, by MaxWar

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schlang wrote:
since I had the time I added five recordings using my sc-55 and my mu-50: […]
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since I had the time I added five recordings using my sc-55 and my mu-50:

- Duke3D Theme
- Raptor Hangar
- Tie Fighter Main Menu
- Warcraft Human1
- Whacky Wheels Main Menu

midi files: http://www.mediafire.com/?uyr11fvdu149duv
mu-50: http://www.mediafire.com/?aivs7j5vjhboyhp
sc-55: http://www.mediafire.com/?bd566pu8jb7f16d

hf 😀

Nice, ill be downloading this now. Btw, is the site in the OP still updated? I think its a very nice projet and i was thinking of doing some sound cards recording for myself. Might as well post here when i do.

those last recordings from Schlang do not seem to be there.

Reply 182 of 265, by jwt27

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Here are three recordings I made of the Jazz Jackrabbit bonus level track. Only the first 30 seconds, for comparison.

Now if you think: Jazz Jackrabbit's music is sampled, it should sound the same on any card! Listen to this and think again 😉

http://www.box.net/shared/4c68vcgx32ux5kpdspxj (10MB flac)

From worst to best (IMO):

First: My current sound card, Yamaha YMF719. It's quite noisy and sounds like it has a built-in loudness circuit or something. Which I don't really like.
Second: Rendered by ModPlug Tracker in windows. I guess this is how it's 'supposed' to sound. Digitally recorded so no analog filters or anything in between.
Third: This one sounds the best in my opinion. Too bad I can't remember which card it was 🤣

Now I also recorded this on some other sound cards, mostly cheap ones with Opti 82C9xx or ESS chipsets but they all sound like crap. Even the YMF719 is great in comparison.

I'd love to hear what this track sounds like on other cards! Does anyone have a sound card that sounds as good as, or maybe even better than this third one?

Reply 183 of 265, by MaxWar

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Yay! something happening in this thread.
Cant remember what is the third sound card huh ?

Interesting, it really sounds diffferent, i agree the third one is best!
What was your recording method for this?
Did you record directly from the game in true dos with line out for 1sr and third card ? second one is from mod file, what sound card ?

Reply 184 of 265, by jwt27

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First and third ones were recorded from real DOS through the line-out, yes. The card I used to record the first one is a SB X-Fi Elite Pro, third was probably recorded on my previous card, an Audigy2. But I don't think that caused the huge difference.
Second one was also recorded on the X-Fi, that shouldn't matter though since it's software rendered.

I might have an idea what the third card was, but I'm not sure. And I can't check it since I cant find it anymore! 😠

Reply 185 of 265, by gerwin

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jwt27 wrote:

First: My current sound card, Yamaha YMF719. It's quite noisy and sounds like it has a built-in loudness circuit or something. Which I don't really like.

Did you turn off all the sound "enhancement" sliders in the second page of the YMF719 DOS configuration/initialization tool? It should sound fine after doing so.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 186 of 265, by jwt27

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Those options are kinda vague, I tried to set them as neutral as possible. I'm not sure if they are really off. This is how it's set up now:

Ymersion = 0 (possible options: 0 to 7)
Mode = Hi-Fi (options: Desktop, NotePC1, NotePC2, Hi-Fi)
Preset = Manual (options: Manual, Hall, Hall2, Church, Disco 🤣)
Bass = 3 (options: 0 to 7)
Treble = 3 (options: 0 to 7)

Reply 187 of 265, by gerwin

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Two years ago, in This topic I wrote: "be sure to turn of all 3D, Ymersion, bass and treble 'enhancements'. Put them all at 0. Also turn off any Amplifier with the jumpers."
But now that you mention it, Bass+treble at 3 could also be the proper setting to leave the original waveform intact. 🙄

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 188 of 265, by MaxWar

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I was planning to do a comparison run mostly for OPL3 between a buch of sound cards i have. Im still setting up all my machines but ill include Jackrabbit in the test run. Im actually quite surprised there is such a big difference. Ill record everything with a XP machine equipped with a EMU 1212m.

Reply 189 of 265, by jwt27

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gerwin wrote:

Two years ago, in This topic I wrote: "be sure to turn of all 3D, Ymersion, bass and treble 'enhancements'. Put them all at 0. Also turn off any Amplifier with the jumpers."
But now that you mention it, Bass+treble at 3 could also be the proper setting to leave the original waveform intact. 🙄

That's what I thought, yes. But I just tested it, and you're right, 0 is the correct setting.

I tested it by playing a WAV file with white noise on the YMF card using MPXPLAY, then checking the output on a spectrum analyzer. With the bass and treble set to 3, there's a 10dB boost at around 100Hz and 10KHz 😳 Now why did I never check that before....

I also just discovered that MPXPLAY can use the WSS interface, so I could finally test if the card has proper 48kHz stereo support. And guess what, it does! I played a WAV file with a 23kHz sine wave, with one channel 90deg out of phase. Spectrum shows a straight spike at 23kHz and the scope shows a nice circle 😀

The correct mixer settings are: SB FM, wave & master volume at 7, WSS wave at 40, master at 15, everything else off. This gives me the best signal-to-noise ratio (about 48dB with WSS, 66dB with SB). Raise the WSS settings any higher and the output becomes very noisy/distorted. SBpro mode is severely distorted anyway since the card does no filtering or interpolation at all in that mode. But I think that's intended.

Needless to say, I'll have to record the jazz jackrabbit sample again with the correct settings to really show what this card's worth.

Reply 191 of 265, by jwt27

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I rec'd it again, and immediately it sounds a LOT better. The difference with the 'mystery card' is a lot smaller now, at least I think it sounds better than the modplug rendering. But I still like the mystery card better.

Now there's another problem. The right channel has some strange 'crackling' distortion. Not sure how that happened, but it wouldn't suprise me one bit if that stupid x-fi card caused it.

Reply 192 of 265, by jwt27

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Fixed the distortion, here is the complete track:
http://www.box.net/shared/v96iu9evxi4y7e46n1u2 (12MB flac)

Now that I listen to this on my good speakers at full volume, with the right mixer settings, I think I can safely say this YMF719 is the best ISA sound card I've ever had. IMO it blows all creative, opti, ESS cards i ever heard away.
The mystery card was probably a TerraTec PCI card. Either a TT801 or Integra128. But I'm really not sure tho, it could have been something completely different. I think I threw the TT away, because it's OPL emulation was not that great. Here's the full recording for comparison:
http://www.box.net/shared/6x4msi1b3b2jdd6xp1ye (10MB flac)

So while I was at it, I also recorded some OPL3 goodness.
All played back with RdosPlay for it's cool stereo effect 😀

Tyrian - Gyges, will you please help me:
http://www.box.net/shared/jrqo0sjrsze98fyf0nl8 (15MB flac)

Ski or Die - Snowboard Halfpipe:
http://www.box.net/shared/kmumapfbnymtj77zf7fz (9MB flac)

Crappiest game in the world - Best soundtrack ever:
http://www.box.net/shared/nalq4q6yf1a2tr5g6r3x (18MB flac)

Took me quite a while to upload all that on my connection 🤣

As far as I can tell, it's definitely a real OPL3 inside this chip. Tell me what you think 😀

Reply 193 of 265, by gerwin

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@jwt27
Thanks for sharing your observations, and glad we both agree on the YMF719 being a useful card.

The YMF715 (=YMF719) Datasheet says there is a Yamaha OPL3/OPL3-L build in.

You wrote: "SBpro mode is severely distorted anyway since the card does no filtering or interpolation at all in that mode. But I think that's intended."
Can you tell more about that filtering/interpolation distortion. Because Whenever I use an ISA soundcard, SB Pro compatibility is used far more often then the poorly supported WSS mode.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 194 of 265, by jwt27

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gerwin wrote:
@jwt27 Thanks for sharing your observations, and glad we both agree on the YMF719 being a useful card. […]
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@jwt27
Thanks for sharing your observations, and glad we both agree on the YMF719 being a useful card.

The YMF715 (=YMF719) Datasheet says there is a Yamaha OPL3/OPL3-L build in.

You wrote: "SBpro mode is severely distorted anyway since the card does no filtering or interpolation at all in that mode. But I think that's intended."
Can you tell more about that filtering/interpolation distortion. Because Whenever I use an ISA soundcard, SB Pro compatibility is used far more often then the poorly supported WSS mode.

Maybe distortion is not the right word. Depends on how you look at it.

When you sample an analog waveform, the resulting digital signal is, well, digital. When you look at the digital waveform, it has sharp edges which were not present in the original waveform. Those 'sharp edges' result in harmonics, on a FFT spectrum analyzer you'll see audio signals above 11kHz (= nyquist frequency of the 22kHz sampling rate used in SBpro2). With sampling rates above 40kHz, you won't hear much of a difference ofcourse, since not many people can hear sounds above 20kHz.

To more accurately reproduce the original signal, a DAC can either use a higher sampling rate and interpolate between two samples, or use a low-pass filter at 11kHz to 'round' the edges. You can roughly compare this with anti-aliasing used in digital graphics processing.

I'm not very good at explaining this, especially not in English, so pictures probably say more than a thousand words:
http://www.alpha-ii.com/Info/AudioInt.html

The sound card really does not 'distort' the signal at all, the DAC actually does a very good job of reproducing the digital signal. But, it's not the same as the original analog signal. If there ever was any, that is 🙄. OPL3 music, for example, does improve with interpolation or filtering, since it was never sampled from an analog signal. (not that you would hear the difference anyway, with a sampling rate of 49.something kHz)

But now, does this 'distortion' matter? It depends on how the musician intended his music to be heard. But since we will most likely never know, it all really depends on your personal preference 😀

If you want to hear the difference:
http://www.box.net/shared/nz9jc6yc8hq44zy4plfa (3MB flac)
First part is the output from the YMF719,
Second is the same, with a sharp low-pass filter at 11kHz,
Third is rendered by Modplug in 16bit/48kHz with cubic interpolation.

Reply 195 of 265, by MaxWar

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Sweet, that yamaha card is pretty good after all, i was surprised by the first result, this is much better 😁

Btw, i bought a lot of 17 ISA sound cards from ebay, real cheap!
Comes in two separate boxes, i received first box today, i really had no idea of the content before buying but could not resist buying.

So i only have 8 cards now, some are pretty interesting.

-Audio Excel AV310, I caught you review of this one Gerwin 😉
Sound Blaster 16 Clones
-Sound blaster 2.0 ( 8bit isa )
-A big card with a chip callled Rock 16, im intrigued with this one.
-2x yamaha YMF719 , im also excited about this as i now know they are good cards.
-SB32 ct3600, i already had one.
-A cheap ess audiodrive
-Vibra16, bleurk ...

I cant wait to see what 9 other cards will be!

Reply 196 of 265, by jwt27

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MaxWar wrote:

Sweet, that yamaha card is pretty good after all, i was surprised by the first result, this is much better 😁

I was more surprised by the final result with the right settings, I've heard cards that were worse than that first recording..

If you need drivers for those ymf719 cards I could upload them if you want 😀

Reply 197 of 265, by gerwin

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@jwt27
Thanks for the explanation, it is all very clear. I still have to take my time to judge the interpolation/filtering sound example you attached.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 198 of 265, by jwt27

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gerwin wrote:

@jwt27
Thanks for the explanation, it is all very clear. I still have to take my time to judge the interpolation/filtering sound example you attached.

The electronic jazz jackrabbit music is probably not the best example. Music sampled from real instruments, realistic sound effects and speech would most likely benefit more from interpolation.

Don't know if there even are cards that do hardware interpolation 🤣

edit:
Here is a better example with speech, recorded from Dungeon Keeper:
http://www.box.net/shared/qzyp4rhsr8yl3kf58lk4 (6MB flac)
First you'll hear the SBPro2 mode, second part is in WSS mode.

Reply 199 of 265, by TrueMorph

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Hi,

I'm looking for Ultima 6 Opening recorded with the real CMS/GameBlaster. Is there any chance that someone could make one for me in its free time? 😀

Thanks.

Retro Machine:
System: Am5x86-P75/133; GA-586AL Rev.2A; 16MB FPM
Video: Hercules Terminator 3D/DX 4MB
Sound: Sound Blaster Pro 2.0
OS: MS-DOS 6.22