VOGONS


Reply 261 of 280, by darry

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Axatax wrote on 2021-03-11, 16:13:

OK, so apparently not all coin cells in this format are lithium batteries. There were 2016 Alkaline cells made, and that's probably what's in the SC-55, and why they're leaking.

I never heard about Alkaline 2016 cells being a thing. Do you have some more info about those ?

Reply 263 of 280, by vutt

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Dimitris1980 wrote on 2021-03-14, 19:34:

Has anyone opened the Yamaha MU50 to check the battery? Is it soldered?

MU50 has spot welded battery connection, so yeah replacing it involves soldering.

Interestingly enough my example shows 2.7 V but no low battery warning as of yet. 25+ years old - very impressive.

Reply 264 of 280, by Dimitris1980

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Thank you for the info. Today the "low battery" message appeared on screen on my Yamaha MU50. As Keropi correctly have mentioned, the Roland Sound Canvas SC55 doesn't need the battery for games because they need the default settings, so the power and volume buttons are enough. The same goes for Yamaha?

Reply 265 of 280, by Shreddoc

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Blaster wrote on 2021-02-22, 23:12:

Oh yeah I remember seeing some PSU's with this crappy stuff, it woud turn dark brown over time and actually cause a short.

Old Thrashbarg wrote on 2013-08-02, 21:50:

glue eating traces? never seen that... maybe the cap leaked and caused this...

No, there is indeed a glue that'll turn corrosive. I'm not sure exactly what sort of substance it is, but I've seen it a couple times myself in some '80s stereo equipment. And I know it wasn't a leaky cap, because it happened in some places that weren't near a cap.

There's also sort of glue that eventually carbonizes and goes conductive after prolonged exposure to heat. I've seen a fair number of PC PSUs that have failed because of that... and I imagine it made for quite a light show in cases where it shorted stuff on the primary side.

If you're lucky, the time-compromised glue will "merely" self-combust like mine did.

Reply 266 of 280, by vutt

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Dimitris1980 wrote on 2021-03-14, 21:24:

Thank you for the info. Today the "low battery" message appeared on screen on my Yamaha MU50. As Keropi correctly have mentioned, the Roland Sound Canvas SC55 doesn't need the battery for games because they need the default settings, so the power and volume buttons are enough. The same goes for Yamaha?

While I haven't disconnected personally my battery as of yet I think unit will just reset into factory default settings.

Reply 267 of 280, by BatkatA

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Hello guys.
Maybe it is not the correct place to ask but i will try.
I remember a post for Roland sc55 where a person comment that he repair it or order another one for spares.
I think the oerson was from Finland.
I want to ask for help about spare parts for an old roland.
I'll be happy if someone had one for spares.

Please write me PM if you have or link to the post
Thanks in advance

Reply 268 of 280, by imi

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Not a SC55 and not a battery... but there are other things that can leak too 😒

The Korg AG-10 I got wasn't working, it receives MIDI data but doesn't output any audio, luckily the seller was honest enough and refunded me the money, I poked around a bit to see if I can find anything and well... this doesn't look too good:

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Reply 269 of 280, by CrossBow777

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imi wrote on 2021-03-31, 00:37:

Not a SC55 and not a battery... but there are other things that can leak too 😒

The Korg AG-10 I got wasn't working, it receives MIDI data but doesn't output any audio, luckily the seller was honest enough and refunded me the money, I poked around a bit to see if I can find anything and well... this doesn't look too good:
KorgAG10b.jpg

Yeap, looks similar to what I found inside my SD-20 when it wasn't outputting any audio from the RCA jacks or headphone jack. It would only work through TOS-link which was okay, but I wanted it all working. Replaced out the caps when I found a few with grey and dull looking solder compared to the other components and knew then, that the caps had likely leaked and were starting to corrode the solder joints. Replaced them all out with standard radial electrolytic nichicon's I had on hand and it has been good since.

g883j7-2.png
Midi Modules: MT-32 (OLD), MT-200, MT-90, SD-20

Reply 270 of 280, by Schule04

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Here's the insides of the MU50. The soldered battery does not look like a normal CR2032, it is wider and thicker. It doesn't seem to be leaking and measured 2.5V for me

20210401_0003_01.jpg
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Reply 271 of 280, by auron

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imi wrote on 2021-03-31, 00:37:

Not a SC55 and not a battery... but there are other things that can leak too 😒

The Korg AG-10 I got wasn't working, it receives MIDI data but doesn't output any audio, luckily the seller was honest enough and refunded me the money, I poked around a bit to see if I can find anything and well... this doesn't look too good:
KorgAG10b.jpg

someone might have tried to change the caps at one point, think this is how that unit is supposed to look like: https://www.wavetable.nl/wp-content/uploads/K … nals-scaled.jpg

and what's with that unsoldered diode?

Reply 272 of 280, by imi

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interesting, looking closer at that picture though shows some differences in the board, so probably a different revision, the diode might have been a factory botch job, who knows... if you look closely you can see that in place of the botched diode there is a "ZD2" on the board directly, so I assume that was a fix before they made a new board revision.

Reply 273 of 280, by Axatax

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darry wrote on 2021-03-11, 18:00:
Axatax wrote on 2021-03-11, 16:13:

OK, so apparently not all coin cells in this format are lithium batteries. There were 2016 Alkaline cells made, and that's probably what's in the SC-55, and why they're leaking.

I never heard about Alkaline 2016 cells being a thing. Do you have some more info about those ?

Wikipedia thinks this is a thing, at least --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_cell

Alkaline batteries are made in the same button sizes as the other types, but typically provide less capacity and less stable voltage than more costly silver oxide or lithium cells.[3]

Primary Lithium cells don't have any type of electrolyte that can leak like NaOH will eventually do in an alkaline cell. If you take apart primary Li cells, what you end up with is stuff that resembles layers of foil and plastic.

Last edited by Axatax on 2021-04-17, 01:43. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 275 of 280, by darry

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Axatax wrote on 2021-04-17, 01:38:
Wikipedia thinks this is a thing, at least -- […]
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darry wrote on 2021-03-11, 18:00:
Axatax wrote on 2021-03-11, 16:13:

OK, so apparently not all coin cells in this format are lithium batteries. There were 2016 Alkaline cells made, and that's probably what's in the SC-55, and why they're leaking.

I never heard about Alkaline 2016 cells being a thing. Do you have some more info about those ?

Wikipedia thinks this is a thing, at least --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_cell

Alkaline batteries are made in the same button sizes as the other types, but typically provide less capacity and less stable voltage than more costly silver oxide or lithium cells.[3]

Primary Lithium cells don't have any type of electrolyte that can leak like NaOH will eventually do in an alkaline cell. If you take apart primary Li cells, what you end up with is stuff that resembles layers of foil and plastic.

I know there are alkaline button cells, usually used in things like wrist watches. I have, however, never heard of CR2016 (or CR2025 or CR2032) type batteries with alkaline chemistry. That Wikipedia article does not imply the existence of alkaline CR2016, just that alkaline button cells exist (among other chemistries) and may have the same size as button cells using other chemistries. Additionally, alkaline cells are nominally 1.5V , whereas the the CR2016 and most lithium primary cells are specced at 3V. So if a CR2016 alkaline battery ever existed, it would likely have consisted of two 1.5V cells in series, which would have made for very thin cells indeed to fit into the CR2016 form factor . Finally, I can find no indication on the Internet (at least with Google) that CR2016 batteries other than the commonly know primary lithium ones were ever produced .

EDIT : That is not to say that CR2016 were never a thing, just that I was not able to find conclusive evidence of their existence .

EDIT2: Even the SC-55 manual says (page 86) that the battery type used is, explicitly, a lithium CR2025 . http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SC-55_OM.pdf

Reply 276 of 280, by Axatax

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darry wrote on 2021-04-17, 02:10:

EDIT : That is not to say that CR2016 were never a thing, just that I was not able to find conclusive evidence of their existence .

EDIT2: Even the SC-55 manual says (page 86) that the battery type used is, explicitly, a lithium CR2025 . http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SC-55_OM.pdf

That's all fair points -- but assuming the SC-55 battery is a Lithium CR2016 (and I have no reason to doubt it is), what exactly is leaking from it?

EDIT: My particular (original) battery in my SC-55 was a CR2016 - it also never leaked.

Reply 277 of 280, by vad4r

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I opened my SC-55 for the first time today and it was probably at the last minute....

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vae victis!

Reply 278 of 280, by pc-sound-legacy

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I have to admit that it was new to me that liion cells tend to leak, too. Haven't had any issues with them on mainboards so far. But for some reason, in these modules or seems to be not uncommon. Have checked my modules as well. Most were ok but the one in my Roland RA50 was start leaking, too. (Luckily there was no damage so far - is lithium less agressive than the acid from the NICD/NIMH type cells?)

Reply 279 of 280, by 32kofdata

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Got a SC88 last week and decided to open it up for cleaning. Battery had a thin layer of crust - just a matter of cleaning the battery holder with a brush and put a new fresh battery. My experience is that some tend to leak some don't. Might have to do with usage and probably heat and humidity.