VOGONS


First post, by markuno

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Dear community, i would like your advise:
I have a setup consisting of a HP Vectra 500 with a 486DX4/100 in it. It already has a SBPro2 that works wonderful and I was thinking to buy and add a CT2330 SB16 to properly take advantage of the 16bit sound for the games with that option.

1) Do you think it makes sense this decision? I'be been reading various opinions to this subject.

2) In the affirmative case, which would be the correct way to a proper configuration daisy-chaining both cards?

3)Would be necessary/make any good the addition of a mixer?

4) I have already an AWE64Gold and a SC-55 that could use instead but that PC doesn't run very smooth fps like doom or heretic (forget about duke3d) so I think that goes for another project. This is mainly intended to cover adventures from early to mid 90s. Thanks in advance!

Reply 1 of 14, by The Serpent Rider

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No practical reason to use them both. Unless you're SB Pro low-pass filter connoisseur or desperately need stereo sound in one of the few games which do not have SB16 support.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 2 of 14, by DonutKing

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markuno wrote on 2020-02-26, 04:22:

1) Do you think it makes sense this decision? I'be been reading various opinions to this subject.

Not really. There's not a big difference between these cards in practical terms.

2) In the affirmative case, which would be the correct way to a proper configuration daisy-chaining both cards?

You will need to give both cards different resource settings (DMA, IRQ, IO base address).
Some games use the SET BLASTER environment variable to initialise the sound card, you will need to adjust this to direct output to the different cards.
The OPL FM synth can't be changed AFAIK, so both cards will play FM/Adlib music. I haven't tried this in a long time so I don't remember if some games will balk at having two FM/Adlib synths in the system.

You can plug the line out of one card into the line in of the other, then attach the speakers to the second card. This brings us to your next question:

3)Would be necessary/make any good the addition of a mixer?

This would be my preferred method of hooking up the speakers to multiple sound devices. Sound blasters were pretty noisy, daisy chaining them will just make it worse.

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 3 of 14, by Joseph_Joestar

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-02-26, 04:26:

No practical reason to use them both. Unless you're SB Pro low-pass filter connoisseur or desperately need stereo sound in one of the few games which do not have SB16 support.

Out of curiosity, is there a list of games which have stereo sound, support the SBPro but don't support the SB16?

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 4 of 14, by DonutKing

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-02-26, 07:43:
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-02-26, 04:26:

No practical reason to use them both. Unless you're SB Pro low-pass filter connoisseur or desperately need stereo sound in one of the few games which do not have SB16 support.

Out of curiosity, is there a list of games which have stereo sound, support the SBPro but don't support the SB16?

Not that I’m aware of.
Wolf3d is usually cited as an example, however it is incorrect as it does work in stereo with an SB16.

There’s some discussion here SB Pro compatible vs SB Pro/16 compatible

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 5 of 14, by gdjacobs

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DonutKing wrote on 2020-02-26, 09:53:
Not that I’m aware of. Wolf3d is usually cited as an example, however it is incorrect as it does work in stereo with an SB16. […]
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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-02-26, 07:43:

Out of curiosity, is there a list of games which have stereo sound, support the SBPro but don't support the SB16?

Not that I’m aware of.
Wolf3d is usually cited as an example, however it is incorrect as it does work in stereo with an SB16.

There’s some discussion here SB Pro compatible vs SB Pro/16 compatible

There are a handful of games which support the CT1330 but not the CT1600 or SB16.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 6 of 14, by DonutKing

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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-02-26, 18:58:
DonutKing wrote on 2020-02-26, 09:53:
Not that I’m aware of. Wolf3d is usually cited as an example, however it is incorrect as it does work in stereo with an SB16. […]
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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-02-26, 07:43:

Out of curiosity, is there a list of games which have stereo sound, support the SBPro but don't support the SB16?

Not that I’m aware of.
Wolf3d is usually cited as an example, however it is incorrect as it does work in stereo with an SB16.

There’s some discussion here SB Pro compatible vs SB Pro/16 compatible

There are a handful of games which support the CT1330 but not the CT1600 or SB16.

I believe you’re referring to the dual OPL2 on the CT1330 vs OPL3 on the later cards. I know some games support the dual OPL2 but I’ve not heard of any games that don’t work with the later cards - you just don’t get stereo FM music.

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 7 of 14, by SirNickity

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IIRC, the list of games that actually support the SBPro dual OPL2 is pretty short, where most supported the PAS dual OPL2 instead. Even that list isn't very long, though. Hacks and driver-replacements notwithstanding, of course.

If we're comparing between SB Pro 2.0 and SB16, I really see no reason to have both in the same computer. It isn't impossible, and managing the BLASTER environment variable with batch files that start the game of choice with one or the other card's address selected wouldn't be a big deal. I would use an external mixer, if possible, but chaining them via line out/in isn't the end of the world. Much is said about SB cards and noise, but this is hardly a world-class HiFi we're talking about. For some crappy 8-bit PCM on some crappy beige desktop speakers, uh... it'll do.

Reply 8 of 14, by gdjacobs

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DonutKing wrote on 2020-02-26, 20:52:

I know some games support the dual OPL2 but I’ve not heard of any games that don’t work with the later cards - you just don’t get stereo FM music.

Sorry, that's what I was referring to.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 9 of 14, by gdjacobs

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DonutKing wrote on 2020-02-26, 09:53:

Not that I’m aware of.
Wolf3d is usually cited as an example, however it is incorrect as it does work in stereo with an SB16.

There’s some discussion here SB Pro compatible vs SB Pro/16 compatible

Here's a report of Aladdin for DOS outputting stereo on an SB Pro but not an SB16.
Aladdin (DOS) music - SB16 vs. SBPro vs. WSS

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Reply 10 of 14, by Joseph_Joestar

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Yeah, I was the one who posted that thread. But that's a weird outlier because Aladdin specifically supports SB16/AWE32 as a setup option, but doesn't play stereo music when that is selected for some odd reason.

What I'm looking for is a list of games that only support SBPro (and maybe the OG Sound Blaster) in the setup options and offer digital (PCM) stereo sound, but don't have SB16 as a setup option at all. That way, SB16 owners would be forced to use the SBPro driver and thereby miss out on digital sound playing in stereo.

I'm only asking because people keep touting this lack of stereo compatibility as a huge disadvantage for the SB16, yet somehow, there don't seem to be any real-world examples where it actually matters.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 11 of 14, by AvalonH

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-02-29, 06:16:

Yeah, I was the one who posted that thread. But that's a weird outlier because Aladdin specifically supports SB16/AWE32 as a setup option, but doesn't play stereo music when that is selected for some odd reason.

What I'm looking for is a list of games that only support SBPro (and maybe the OG Sound Blaster) in the setup options and offer digital (PCM) stereo sound, but don't have SB16 as a setup option at all. That way, SB16 owners would be forced to use the SBPro driver and thereby miss out on digital sound playing in stereo.

I'm only asking because people keep touting this lack of stereo compatibility as a huge disadvantage for the SB16, yet somehow, there don't seem to be any real-world examples where it actually matters.

Not many, from the ones I have played are:
The Adventures of Willy Beamish (floppy first release version)
Conan: The Cimmerian
Eye of the Beholder II: The Legend of Darkmoon
Mario Andretti's Racing Challenge
Murder Makes Strange Deadfellows
NCAA: Road to the Final Four
Wing Commander II: Vengeance of the Kilrathi (first release)
Rampart (1992)

Two problems are did the games support digital stereo in the first place (even though SB PRO is supported). The other problem is how many crossover games that later supported SB16 in setup (1992-94) still only play the digial in mono with SB16 but stereo using SBPro (like Aladin).

Reply 12 of 14, by gdjacobs

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-02-29, 06:16:

Yeah, I was the one who posted that thread. But that's a weird outlier because Aladdin specifically supports SB16/AWE32 as a setup option, but doesn't play stereo music when that is selected for some odd reason.

My money is on the installer/configuration being patched to list SB16 and AWE32 while using the original SB driver. Not really much of a distinction if the software doesn't use any SB16 modes.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 13 of 14, by Joseph_Joestar

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Thanks for the list AvalonH! I'll give some of those a try.

What you said about games that may be similar to Aladdin is interesting. I wonder how many other games may have half-assed their SB16 driver and kept its output in mono mode.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 14 of 14, by gdjacobs

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-03-06, 05:31:

Thanks for the list AvalonH! I'll give some of those a try.

What you said about games that may be similar to Aladdin is interesting. I wonder how many other games may have half-assed their SB16 driver and kept its output in mono mode.

Anyone know how early the rot set in at Electronic Arts?

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder