VOGONS


First post, by OtakuN3rd

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Hi Vogons,

I have been a lurker here for a couple years, but finally decided to register an account. I am working on a Socket 7 Pentium retro build and having trouble with the sound card drivers in Windows for Workgroups 3.11.

My sound card is a Media Vision Pro AudioSpectrum 16 LMSI, which I also see referred to as a "DOUBLE FUSION LX LSMI (650-0082-03)" over at stason.org.

I can initialize the card correctly in DOS and use the mod player that is included with the drivers I downloaded from Vogons Drivers, but Windows hasn't been so cooperative. I also attempted to use the drivers at DOS Days (WIN144.ZIP) but get the same errors.

(Drivers I attempted to use: https://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fil … menustate=51,38 and http://www.retroisle.com/DOSDays/topics/Manuf … mediavision.php)

When starting Windows, I get the errors pictured below. I can't find much about the LMSI version of this card online, and the only place I find any specific drivers referenced for it is at soundcard-drivers.com, but of course its a click bait place and doesn't actually offer the drivers for download. That being said, I do see a filename - mmdbcd16.zip referenced. Unfortunately, I am unable to find that file for download.

I am not worried about using the CD-ROM interface, I don't have an LMSI drive to use with it anyway. I am just looking to use it inside WFW 3.11 (in addition to DOS, which is already working).

Other information: I noticed the DOS installer wanted to put it at IRQ 7 and DMA 3. IRQ 7 is already used by LPT1, so I switched it to IRQ 5, and to DMA 1 while I was at it. These settings were both updated in Config.sys and System.ini.

Am I using the wrong drivers, or did I overlook something?

Thanks in advance.

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Reply 1 of 16, by Joseph_Joestar

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OtakuN3rd wrote on 2021-09-16, 16:43:

Other information: I noticed the DOS installer wanted to put it at IRQ 7 and DMA 3. IRQ 7 is already used by LPT1, so I switched it to IRQ 5, and to DMA 1 while I was at it.

Welcome to Vogons!

If you're not using the serial and parallel ports on your retro rig, it's always best to disable them in the BIOS in order to free up a few extra resources. That might not necessarily help with the issue you're having, but it's considered good practice.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 2 of 16, by Gmlb256

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Hi and welcome!

As mentioned in the previous post, I'd suggest disabling these ports if you aren't using them at all. Some early DOS games with SB support could have the IRQ hardcoded to 3 and/or 7 instead of 5.

For that "soundcard-drivers.com" page which later got a questionable "downloader", the drivers were archived into the following site by fellow VOGONS user Deksor:
https://archive.org/details/xxxxxxx-drivers.com

I don't have a PAS card to help you further though. 🙁

Reply 3 of 16, by cyclone3d

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Wait... What!?!?!?!?. How did I not know about those files being archived? Now I am going to have to download everything and go through it as there are some drivers that were thought to be lost to time.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 4 of 16, by OtakuN3rd

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Thank you for the link to the archive of that website! I searched for the individual zip file at Archive.org, but I didn't see the entire website archived.

I am aware some programs have specific resources hard coded, which is why I switched it to DMA 1. I do plan to do some experiments and playing around with serial and parallel devices with this machine, but can disable / switch around resources if needed.

I started downloading the archive for sound drivers, and will pull out that file after it finishes and see if I fare any better with that.

Reply 5 of 16, by Stiletto

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-09-16, 17:38:

Wait... What!?!?!?!?. How did I not know about those files being archived? Now I am going to have to download everything and go through it as there are some drivers that were thought to be lost to time.

Yeah, Deksor did it starting in February of this year! We got into it here: Link Repository for Vintage PC Driver\Documentation Archives, FTPs, Websites

Deksor does admit that he wasn't able to get -all- of it though, IIRC some had gone missing/broken or something.

However, in the same thread he mentions that some of the content is mirrored from DriverGuide, so if you find it at one of the "-drivers.com" websites in your search results, you may be able to find it there, now that you know its numerical identification.

I guess that would be this, once DriverGuide is back online (they have had some server outage recently): https://www.driverguide.com/driver/detail.php … driverid=141778

Reminder: you don't -have- to download everything if you are after something specific from an archive.org upload, you can browse within ZIP/RAR/etc. compressed files there, and only download parts! This used to be pretty secret functionality, but it's come a long way. The easiest way to do that nowadays is to click "SHOW ALL" under the available download options, and then click "View Contents" beside the file you are interested in!

(I have been hoping some hero does such a scrape of DriverGuide too, but the current workaround to avoid their downloader works for me usually: Re: DriverGuide.com’s Not-so-surprising Scammy Tactics )

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 6 of 16, by cyclone3d

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Yeah, I saw the Show All on archive.org. there are just so many files in those zips that it takes absolutely forever for it to load the list... And then it actually stops once it gets to a certain number of files. I wasn't even a me to get to any of the actual driver files.

As for Driver guide, I download a lot from them. The silly driver installer link is lame but I guess they have to trick people into paying them money somehow.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 7 of 16, by mistermister

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Back to the OP's topic, I recently installed my PAS16 into a DOS/WFW 3.11 system so I thought I should share what I did. My card is a PAS16 with the SCSI interface. I am the original owner of this card from the early 90s, still have the box, mic and install floppies. For the recent installation I used the "Media Vision Pro Audio Studio 16 with SCSI driver and utils" on Vogons drivers which is on 7 floppies and includes the software suite for Win3.1. Even though your card is not SCSI, I would give it a try, maybe you can skip the SCSI installation (I am not using my SCSI interface). I used real floppies, made the discs, started with INSTALL.EXE on disk 1 and followed the prompts. My system had WFW 3.11 already installed, can't remember if the installation detected Windows or asked whether to install in Windows.

Reply 8 of 16, by OtakuN3rd

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Thank you all for the suggestions.

So far I have been unable to download the soundcard drivers archive. My ISP has some minor hiccups every now and then. When that happens the download fails, and trying to resume it results in a corrupted file ( I have tried using the built-in Firefox download manager and DownThemAll). I am going to try using uGet as a download manager this time around. For some reason, it appears that the soundcard drivers archive isn't in the torrent file, otherwise I would use that.

@mistermister,

Thanks! I will give those a try while I attempt to download the archive again. I saw them there, and had them downloaded, but it looked more like a Windows 95 driver than Windows 3.1. My mistake, I guess.

As far as DriverGuide goes, it looks like they may be back up and running, though the file mentioned at soundcard-drivers doesn't seem to be there. If the tip about using the SCSI version doesn't work, or I still can't get the archive downloaded, I will dig through there to see if I can find any other packages for PAS 16 cards and experiment as I have time.

Reply 9 of 16, by Gmlb256

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OtakuN3rd wrote on 2021-09-18, 20:03:

So far I have been unable to download the soundcard drivers archive. My ISP has some minor hiccups every now and then. When that happens the download fails, and trying to resume it results in a corrupted file ( I have tried using the built-in Firefox download manager and DownThemAll). I am going to try using uGet as a download manager this time around. For some reason, it appears that the soundcard drivers archive isn't in the torrent file, otherwise I would use that.

I can browse the "soundcard-drivers.zip" without having to download the entire file and mmdbcd16.zip is actually there. Here is the direct link: https://archive.org/download/xxxxxxx-drivers. … %2Fmmdbcd16.zip.

Seems that file has references to "Multimedia DoubleCD 16" and while Windows is mentioned in the drivers, there is no references to Windows 95.

It's true that several drivers were exactly mirrored from DriverGuide and I recall once a time that these sites ending with "-drivers.com" were redirecting to DriverGuide. 😁

Reply 10 of 16, by OtakuN3rd

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Well, I managed to get the driver archive downloaded and found the file I was looking for. Unfortunately, it is just a copy of an already-installed driver directory and doesn't have the windows-related drivers (just DOS drivers), though the file dates are newer than the other ones I have played with. I also tried the deluxe drivers that were in the archive, all with the same results as what I had been experiencing.

I suspect at this point there is some sort of a resource conflict, likely on the DMA side of things, and possibly with my network card. I went ahead and disabled the parallel port and allocated several IRQs and DMA channels to "Legacy ISA" in the BIOS, but there are no changes to the behavior. I tried manually setting different DMA and IRQs, but no dice.

FWIW, my NIC is a PCI card from SMC with a DEC chipset on it (I don't recall the exact model). I am not using a DOS packet driver other than what comes with WFW 3.11.

At this point I have spent too much time on this. I think I am going to switch over to my SB 16 and stop fighting with the drivers for the PAS. I will probably put the PAS in a Windows 95 or 98 system down the road. (I tested it in my K6-2 system running Win 98SE and it worked without a fuss.) If I get a 486, I will probably try it in that as well.

Reply 11 of 16, by valnar

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I remember when the Media Vision PAS cards came out. They needed a lot of resources IIRC. There was a short period of time where they were at the top of the heap, but a very short time. They were surpassed by better cards. Are you sure you don't want to use something else?

Reply 12 of 16, by Joseph_Joestar

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A few days ago, fellow Vogons member @Scorp released a great video on the PAS16.

It seems like a very interesting card.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64
PC#2: Celeron 466 / Abit ZM6 / Voodoo3 / AWE64 Gold / YMF744 / SC-155
PC#3: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / GeForce4 / SBLive / ALS100
PC#4: Athlon64 3700+ / DFI LanParty / 9600GT / X-Fi Titanium

Reply 13 of 16, by Gmlb256

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The PAS is far from being just a SB clone and certain DOS games has the option to use the PAS16 for stereo and 16-bit mixing output on DOS. It also shielded to prevent any kind of noise according to Great Hierophant on his blog.

Like the SB16 it isn't compatible with SB Pro and seems to have bugs with the MPU-401 on certain revisions (and worse from what I read). Unlike the SB16 it doesn't suffer from the single-cycle DMA clicking bug.

Reply 14 of 16, by Jo22

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-09-20, 15:34:

A few days ago, fellow Vogons member @Scorp released a great video on the PAS16.

It seems like a very interesting card.

I'm speaking under correction, but since I was a PAS16 user in the 90s, please let me add these 2 cents of mine:

It was what the Sound Blaster standard should have had been.

And, maybe, in another reality, it succeeded..
Personally, I never had trouble with games using the PAS16 natively or its on-board Thunderboard chipset.

On hardware of its era, the PAS16 was hassle free and "just worked", thanks to its intelligent setup program and the user-friendly manual.

Also, resources could easily be changed whenever needed.
This allowed for boot disks with special sound card settings.

The microphone port of the PAS16 allowed using high quality dynamic studio microphones.

Edit: The PAS16 had a stereo/surround effect that could be enabled through one of the utilities, too.

Edit: EMM386 could be a cause of trouble.
If anyone of you encounters trouble, please try using the PAS16 without EMM386.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 15 of 16, by Jo22

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I forgot to mention - I once was able to use bothba PAS16 and a SB16 CT1740 in a 586 machine.

Initialization worked fine, but there was a conflict between both OPL3s,
or more precisely, the PAS16 control port and the SB16 OPL3.

The PAS16 uses the 388h address as its control port and because of this has a special circuitry to integrate its OPL3 into that scheme.

The OPL3 on the SB16, however, has not and thus generates a horrible noise tone when the PAS16 drivers load.

To fix this, the diagnose program of the SB16 can be used.
After FM test finishes, the noise is gone.

Edit: A workaround would have been to disable on of the OPL3s, say, the one on the SB card.
Though the later SB16 P'n'p cards are a mess (imho), they do allow to comfortably disable the FM portion, at least.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 16 of 16, by OtakuN3rd

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I apparently completely failed to notice the replies on this thread after my last post.... Sorry about that!

Anyway, I ended up putting in my SB16 PnP Value card and it is working as well as I can hope. With that being said, I was blessed with a load of old hardware yesterday. Nothing super interesting on the sound card side, but I do have some more machines/parts now that might be a good choice to play around with to see if I can get the PAS16 working under WFW311. I haven't given up on the card, I just gave up on it in that computer.

It will all be "as I have time" projects. There's a lot of irons in the fires of my hobbies right now, so it probably won't be any time real soon that I can play with the PAS16 again.