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SC8850 one easy mod, bring back the magic of sound

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Reply 20 of 41, by shandavid

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SuperDeadite wrote on 2023-11-19, 00:06:

Youtube compression makes such tests pointless. If you are truly serious about this (and not just a troll), upload some raw wav recordings please. Also please explain your recording setup.

There is a difference in sound, why not give it a listen?

Reply 21 of 41, by shandavid

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DerBaum wrote on 2023-11-18, 23:53:
Yes. But this time even with a risk of fire. Excellent. […]
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analog_programmer wrote on 2023-11-18, 22:23:

Yes. But this time even with a risk of fire.
Excellent.

Natural selection i guess...

99% AC-DC power adapters don't have fuse inside, neither do SC55 etc., did they catch fire?

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Reply 22 of 41, by shandavid

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analog_programmer wrote on 2023-11-19, 08:16:
DerBaum wrote on 2023-11-18, 23:53:
Yes. But this time even with a risk of fire. Excellent. […]
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analog_programmer wrote on 2023-11-18, 22:23:

Yes. But this time even with a risk of fire.
Excellent.

Natural selection i guess...

We have a phrase for this type of character: dumb and persistent. Or maybe he's an ordinary LVL99+ troll. The most worrying thing is that there are people who fall for his BS.

Troll what? I even uploaded the comparison video, why not go listen to it yourself before bullshit, showing off ignorance is no fun

Reply 23 of 41, by shandavid

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-11-19, 00:19:

Sounds the same for me, can't tell the difference and I do use headphones for listening on my modern computer.

There's a "Roland SC8820 vs SC8850 vs Sound Canvas VA" video on youtube,
https://youtu.be/4C7oCmF4XU8

and a "Roland JV-1080 Plugin vs Hardware" video
https://youtu.be/btCnYLN6lEM?t=222

Can you hear their difference? I can, to my ears, SC8820 > SC VA > SC8850, JV-1080 hardware > software
The differences in sound are the same: comfort, smoothness, better timbre etc

Reply 24 of 41, by shandavid

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And there's a "Roland SC8820 vs SC8850 vs Sound Canvas VA" video on youtube,
https://youtu.be/4C7oCmF4XU8

and a "Roland JV-1080 Plugin vs Hardware" video
https://youtu.be/btCnYLN6lEM?t=222

Can you hear their difference? I can, to my ears, SC8820 > SC VA > SC8850, JV-1080 hardware > software
The differences in sound ar the same, comfort, smoothness, better timbre etc

Reply 25 of 41, by shandavid

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Spikey wrote on 2023-11-18, 09:38:

The SC-8850 has flat sound due to the AK DAC. All Roland units with this DAC just don't sound quite as good - JV-1010, XV-5080, and many others.

Although it's worth pointing out that the 8820 and 50 aren't actually the same unit, they are different in many ways, mostly - but not all - subtle ones.

The DAC chip has some impact on the sound quality, but it's not all the impact, c
ircuits and components (capacitor parameters, etc.) also have a great impact on sound quality.

Modern AKM sound very bad. It was not that bad 20 years ago, only a little worse than BB PCM. I also DIY DAC

Reply 26 of 41, by analog_programmer

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The only ignorant here mentions ignorance... How fun is that?

P.S. Again, it was all written for all the ignorants with interent access: Re: Roland SC8850, replace the power cord as soon as possible.

I hate to repeat myself, but sometimes it's necessary: Re: Roland SC8850, replace the power cord as soon as possible.

Last edited by analog_programmer on 2023-11-19, 11:02. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 27 of 41, by MJay99

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shandavid wrote on 2023-11-19, 09:42:

99% AC-DC power adapters don't have fuse inside, neither do SC55 etc., did they catch fire?

Please, don't state wrong facts and endanger other people:
https://www.elprocus.com/fusible-resistor/

Apart from that, to everyone reading this, please just have a look at his other posts, then you know what type of account this is.

Reply 29 of 41, by Shponglefan

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shandavid wrote on 2023-11-19, 09:52:

Can you hear their difference? I can, to my ears, SC8820 > SC VA > SC8850, JV-1080 hardware > software
The differences in sound are the same: comfort, smoothness, better timbre etc

Have you considered that any differences you perceive may be purely psychological?

Human perception is highly malleable, even if there is no objective difference in the source. It's why people think more expensive wine better than cheap wine, even if it's the exact same wine (see article: How Your Brain Tricks You Into Thinking More Expensive Wine Tastes Better)

If there really were an objective difference in sound quality, then the two ways to demonstrate this would be:

1) Object waveform measures via something like an oscilloscope
2) Blind tests

You may think one sounds better than the other, but without a propr test you won't really know if there any real difference.

From the sample you posted, I don't hear a difference. And this is after careful listening on highly quality speakers. FWIW, I also listening to your previous comparison when you modded your MU90 by changing capacitors and I didn't hear a different there either.

I think you've convinced yourself you're making the sound better, even if there is no change in the actual sound.

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Reply 30 of 41, by Shponglefan

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shandavid wrote on 2023-11-19, 09:35:

and that's why modern midi modules sound bad, and that's why you are here and playing old school audio hardware.

Modern MIDI modules don't intrinsically sound bad.

Some of what may lead to this perception is simply differences in instrument maps. If you have a MIDI track written for an original Roland Sound Canvas, differences in instrumentation on a more modern module will cause it to so difference. I find that often there instruments that sound imbalanced when a track is played back on any module it was not originally written for. This has nothing to do with the age of the modules though.

The other likelihood is the lower quality output of older modules introduces imperfection into the audio. Those imperfections can be perceived as better, even if the output is cleaner and objectively higher quality (e.g. less noise) on a modern module.

This is also why some music producers will tape or vinyl filters, or even record to tape as part of music production. It introduces subtle imperfections that some people perceive as desirable.

It's also funny how many desirable MIDI modules in the retro gaming scene (e.g. MT-32) were generally considered poor quality from a professional music production perspective.

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Reply 31 of 41, by Error 0x7CF

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shandavid wrote on 2023-11-19, 09:35:
DerBaum wrote on 2023-11-19, 00:11:
shandavid wrote on 2023-11-18, 23:14:

Some people don't seem to know that power cord and fuse can affect sound....

Some people here are electrical engineers and really pissed that you tell people to bypass fuses...

Thats a different thing...

The principles of the two are different. If you are just an electronics engineer, and do not understand sound quality and timbre, you will not be able to produce good sound.

and that's why modern midi modules sound bad, and that's why you are here and playing old school audio hardware.

It doesn't matter how good it sounds if it's going to burn down your house.

And the fuse and power cord are going to matter precisely not one bit since it's just getting rectified and filtered down to DC anyway.

Troll.

Or maybe audiophool, which is worse. Go get your own personal power line for maximum audio quality.

Old precedes antique.

Reply 32 of 41, by Shponglefan

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Error 0x7CF wrote on 2023-11-19, 15:12:

It doesn't matter how good it sounds if it's going to burn down your house.

Even leaving aside a catastrophic scenario like that, the fuse also is there to protect the underlying hardware.

Replacing a melted fuse is a much simpler repair than dealing with broader damage to the rest of the board including proprietary ICs.

You would think anyone who enjoys old sound modules would have an interest in keeping them from being fried from electricity.

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Reply 33 of 41, by midicollector

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Bypassing a fuse is stupid and dangerous, and you’re a bad person for suggesting it twice. If you want to destroy your midi module and burn your house down then feel free, but unless you’re really stupid you should never bypass a fuse. They’re there for a reason, they didn’t just include a fuse for fun. Did I mention you can also get electrocuted?

Reply 35 of 41, by megatron-uk

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Sampling bias and/or confirmation bias.

As said by others; empirical data to prove your hypothesis, or you are wrong. That means a repeatable set of tests (s/n ratios, waveform comparisons, whatever) that others can duplicate or rectract your claim.

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Reply 36 of 41, by Dominus

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merged the video thread with this thread.
Unless you can provide better data (direct recordings of the same unit before and after modifications with sound setup listed and keeping it the same for each recording) this will continue to be ridiculed. AND because of bypassing the fuse we might have to delete this thread entirely.

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Reply 38 of 41, by DerBaum

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konc wrote on 2023-11-20, 09:15:

The waveforms of modified vs stock are not the same.
But what I see is timing and speed differences, implying audio manipulation.

wf.png

I am sure we will get a plausible explaination.
My guess is that the small diameter of the fuse makes the energy slower and this will affect the playback speed and the smoothness of the sine wave.
The sinewave is much bigger in a larger cable and can be converted to timbre way better.

Sorry. My brain hurts now 😁

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Reply 39 of 41, by S95Sedan

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Making topics with snakeoil is one thing, but this is outright dangerous, anyone reading this dont ever remove fuses and do this to your devices.
Fuses are there for a reason, they are designed to fail at a certain point and to protect you from your house burning down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W770Z1yvXs8