USB to MIDI(DIN5) cable + https://www.serdashop.com/CHiLL is one way to do things with WB cards (and external MIDI modules with only the USB to MIDI cable), although it may take effort to find a converter cable that works properly. I hear many struggle with SysEx and some have unacceptable latency.

Yeah, the entire point of using a hardware synth is to cut out latency and cpu.

Also, serdashop is in the uk, and i'm in the usa. 🙁

And i still haven't found a good confirmed solution for pci(e) slots. I currently have a cheap "gaming optiplex" and a amd based laptop with build in radeon. Anyone have more input here?

zaphod77 wrote on 2023-11-27, 16:23:

Also, serdashop is in the uk, and i'm in the usa. 🙁

They ship overseas. I'm in Canada and I've bought a lot of things from them.

still would like a us source.

anyway the qwave i was curious about apparently no longer exists, and uses less quality samples than the gm.dls from windows. i'm still interested in the dreamblasters with the 16 meg gs bank, but ONLY if it will play techno composed for sc-55 properly (TVF, full gs chorus, reverb, and sysex and all).

Fun fact. it's literally only legal to use gm.dls on windows. the readme says so. all other uses require buying a license.

C:\Windows\SysWOW64\drivers>more gmreadme.txt
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
GMREADME.TXT
Copyright (c) 1998-2000 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
------------

The GM.DLS file contains the Roland SoundCanvas Sound Set which is
protected under the following copyright:
Roland GS Sound Set/Microsoft (P) 1996 Roland Corporation U.S.
The Roland SoundCanvas Sound Set is licensed under Microsoft's
End User License Agreement for use with Microsoft operating
system products only. All other uses require a separate written
license from Roland.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

See, i'm not kidding. you literally are not allowed to use it on non microsoft OSes without written permission. This would include dosbox when not run under windows.

But you COULD use it with MS-DOS, oddly enough, because that's a MS operating syste. So a DOS driver that only loads under actual ms-dos and uses this dls file to provide midi is legal.

Another option would be something like a Korg NS5R. It has an internal wavetable header. Combine with a USB-to-MIDI interface and you have an external wavetable device that can connect to any modern PC.

Thread on that here: Dreamblaster works in the Korg NS5R :)

Check out M-Audio. They do a range of very popular USB/MIDI adapters, all the way from single to many-ports.

One of those and the CHILL adapter, and you are sorted. You don't need a PCI/PCIe card as the requirements of MIDI are not that high, heck there are even serial to midi converters around.

I use a M-Audio Midisport 2x2 and it is fine. I also have an old Roland UM-ONE which was a single port USB/MIDI dongle which does th same thing .

the X2GS can be used directly connected to USB on a modern computer and you get the output from it's 3.5mm jack: https://www.serdashop.com/X2GS

For enclosed things other that the CHiLL that was mentioned above:
X3MA is the same hardware with USB audio: https://www.serdashop.com/X3M
X3MB is just the midi portion with higher polyphony (since it does not have to do usb audio) https://www.serdashop.com/X3MBuran
but keep in mind none of these have the "GS" bank

Thanks, there's some useful info.

the ability to directly connect the x2gs through usb doesn't really help because neither my desktop nor my laptop have a line IN. laptop has a combo jack onoy, and desktop only has green jack, and combo in front.

i NEED both midi and wave audio to go to the same set of headphones or speakers.

Since i can't pump the audio output of either the desktop or the laptop through the dreamblaster, or pump the output of the dreamblaster through the onboard sound, i'm kinda stuck.

External multi channel mixer, with your speakers attached to the output.

For any decent audio setup you will want one. Using line in or other means to adjust audio levels from a chain of multiple devices is not really a substitute.

i'm not an audiophile.

I already know i literally can't pipe this through hdmi at all anyway (tough that would be nice)
space is a premium here. the old sw60xg method actually worked out (it passed the soundcard line out through the xg board)

so i actually am looing for a

a) pci(e) soundcard with a waveblaster header that works on modern chipsets. as i said, dos doesn't matter, but true XG or GS wavetable DOES. I have ONE small pci-e, one large pci-e, adn oen pci slot in the motherboard. the second large pci-e is the graphics card.
or
b) external soundcard that handles both digital audio and wavetable output that either does true native XG/GS (sc55mkii compatible for gs, or db50xg compatible for XG) or lets you add a waveblaster that will do the same. i can then hook up my erbuds with mic, possibly with an adapter.

megatron-uk wrote on 2023-11-27, 18:54:

Check out M-Audio.
...
I use a M-Audio Midisport 2x2 and it is fine.

fine?! those are the crappiest MIDI to USB adapters ever made - they cannot transfer properly SysEX messages, crash all the time and are the only MIDI USB adapters I've tested with this:

https://radkon.eu/projects/midi_tester/index.php?lang=en

that require delays before after open/close and re-init after each test to even resemble a proper work. And I am not talking about Midisport 2x2 specifically, but all models from that Midisport-series I've tested.

megatron-uk wrote on 2023-11-27, 18:54:

an old Roland UM-ONE

all Roland USB-to-MIDI devices are really perfect, but unfortunately if it's connected to a Roland device or other device that can handle "Active Sense" messages properly - all Roland devices MIDI-Out implements sending every 300 milliseconds such message. Now, that is huge issue for many receiving devices and if you search there are countless of problem reports about it, just a couple from a quick Google search:

https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/9 … -cpu-usage.html

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=22712.0

I myself have MOTU "Micro Lite" that goes insane connected to MIDI-Out of any Roland device, very obvious when using the aforementioned test and connect the Roland MIDI-Out to MOTU "Micro Lite" MIDI-In and then run the test.

last, but not least, it depends on what OS you're running, you can usually find very cheap something like "Roland UA-20", much cheaper than Roland UM-ONE, which is USB Sound card with MIDI interface, but it's Win9x only or you can buy even cheaper "UM-4" from Japan - mine costed 7 USD, it's 4x MIDI-Ins and Outs, much better than Made-in-China plastic Roland UM-ONE, it's Made-in-Japan and with metal case (weights almost 1 kilo or 2 pounds), but "UM-4" is up to Win7 (and even for Win7 it needs hacked drivers, as officially it's Win9x/WinXP device).

As far as the external device: best in term of very cheap and full of possibilities is to use small thin-client running SoftSynth VST there or MAME for emulation of supported Synths, you can even get that way emulation of IBM Music Feature Card, as I discussed lately here:

https://scalibq.wordpress.com/2019/03/26/the- … /#comment-43396

and MAME has now even Synths like:

Yamaha XG emulation at last

So, it's more and more viable with every next release...

zaphod77 wrote on 2023-11-27, 20:32:

i'm not an audiophile. […]
Show full quote

i'm not an audiophile.

I already know i literally can't pipe this through hdmi at all anyway (tough that would be nice)
space is a premium here. the old sw60xg method actually worked out (it passed the soundcard line out through the xg board)

so i actually am looing for a

a) pci(e) soundcard with a waveblaster header that works on modern chipsets. as i said, dos doesn't matter, but true XG or GS wavetable DOES. I have ONE small pci-e, one large pci-e, adn oen pci slot in the motherboard. the second large pci-e is the graphics card.
or
b) external soundcard that handles both digital audio and wavetable output that either does true native XG/GS (sc55mkii compatible for gs, or db50xg compatible for XG) or lets you add a waveblaster that will do the same. i can then hook up my erbuds with mic, possibly with an adapter.

I don't think what you are looking for actually exists as a single product available on the market today. The waveblaster header was obsolete long before pcie cards came about, all of which are mainly digital audio devices. You can absolutely get an external audio DAC, and you can absolutely get an external USB to MIDI adapter (and through various options connect one or more waveblaster type boards, or discrete/fulls-sized MIDI modules/keyboards), but I don't know of anything that will give you a 'modern soundcard in a box'. Some older soundcards/usb-midi modules did have digital audio capabilities (the ancient Roland SCP-55 was an SC-55 on a PCMCIA card with simple digital audio/soundblaster-like capabilities).

Being an audiophile has nothing to do with what anyone has proposed - but you're not going to find a single device for option (a) or option (b), above. You will find that a sizeable percentage of people on here with midi modules, multiple soundcards (and probably their main, non-retro PC) etc have also bought simple, cheap desktop audio mixers to make the connection to a single pair of speakers, headphones etc, much more practical.

mattw wrote on 2023-11-27, 20:37:

...said some stuff about usb/midi adapters...

Take everything I said in the context of gaming audio. This is also from a Linux host, so driver availability is generally a non-issue as long as the device is detected.

I've had one or two sysex issues with the 2x2 resulting in stuck instruments on playback... but then again, I've also had a similar number of handful with a genuine MPU401-AT - these are both going in to a Kenton Audio MIDI merge (4-in, 1 out - the inputs from 4 different computers; the others being an genuine Roland MPU-PC-98/II in a NEC PC-9821 and a Sharp CZ-6BM1 in an X68000) and then out through a MIDI Solutions Quadra Merge (1-in, 4-out - to the input of multiple MIDI modules; SC-55mk2, MT-32 old, SC-8820)... so there's always the possibility that it's one of the merge stages that is at fault.

One thing I didn't mention was that another usb/midi interface, an M-Audio Uno, was nothing but trouble when I tried to use it with mt32-pi. Swapped to the Roland UM-ONE and it was fine. So that's one I couldn't recommend.

megatron-uk wrote on 2023-11-27, 21:03:

I don't think what you are looking for actually exists as a single product

I agree with that, but 1st step is sorting out the MIDI Ins/Outs as it's the core. even that cannot be done with a single product to cover all OS. In DOS for example Yamaha TG100 is a great solution, as @Cloudschatze explained in this thread in good details:

Re: Roland MT32 - Direct Connection to Serial / COM1 SoftMPU

In Win98, I am using "Roland UA-20", in WinXP/Win7 Roland UM-4, etc.

megatron-uk wrote on 2023-11-27, 21:12:

use it with mt32-pi

IMHO, using MT32-Pi is simply waste of money. you can buy thin-client for a fraction of those money run not just MT-32 emulation, but all the other available emulation plus even go fancy with very high-end sound card in that thin client, for example I have Futro with T56N, that I mentioned here:

Re: What is the best Thin Client for Windows 98 (SE)

and it can run even Roland SCVA plus it has PCI slot and I've installed high-end Onkyo SE-90 (Made-in-Japan) sound card in it and have another spare Audiotrak HD2 (Made-in-Korea) sound card. So, for the Futro plus those 2 sound cards, believe it or not, I spent less than MT32-Pi solution costs, because of course they all were purchased 2nd hand.

megatron-uk wrote on 2023-11-27, 21:03:

I don't think what you are looking for actually exists as a single product available on the market today. The waveblaster header was obsolete long before pcie cards came about, all of which are mainly digital audio devices.

^ This

Wavetable headers started disappearing from sound cards in the mid-to-late 90s, whereas PCI express didn't show up until 2003. Don't think I've ever seen a PCI-E sound card with a wavetable header.

Also not aware of any audio interfaces that included wavetable headers either. Ditto with MIDI interfaces or sound modules that could do GM playback, other than the Korg NS5R.

Well the X3MA is both a sound card and midi module running thr Buran or Cleanwave bank so it does both from its audio output
I have used it as my main sound card for quite some time and it works and sounds very good.

just an addition to my previous posts: "E-MU Xmidi 1x1" USB adapter fails with SysEx messages 1151 bytes in size or bigger:

I've just found that adapter in a box of old hardware I recently acquired. so, it's like M-Audio hit and miss when it comes to SysEx - it can work in some cases and for some applications and fails for another. so, yeah, when it comes to USB MIDI, most devices are crappy, with very few exceptions.

I really want

a) stable and low latency systemwide XG midi level 1 playback. software midi cabling is very prone to hanging notes, and midi system synth drivers seem to be unsigned, and not so reliable on modern hardware. presumable this would be easiest to get with a waveblaster board, but there seem to be issues doing this on no retro hardware
b) stable and low latency system wide sc55mkii midi playback.

How do i get this? preferably without spending more than 100$ TOTAL and without piracy.

I suspect that actually putting the true mu-50 samples into the vsti or waiting till someone forks mame and makes an accurate mu-50 software emulator. i really should go test mame on my xg midi files vs the softsynth in foobar2k. if anyone els eis set up for that, hers' my list of test midis

The various xg techno mids i have

ColdTrap.mid
PHAZE1.mid
children(xg).mid (you'll know if you have the right one when the piano echos in sy-xg50 and it's got the filter sweeeps)
egytech.mid
jam and spoon - right in the night.mid (again it has a filter sweep near the end, whihc is how you know )
the xg final fantasy 7 midi files

many of these have a single track entitled "Mixdown".
I also think the idea of slamming the roland sc55mk2 samples into sy-xg50 should cause that particular softsynth to playback most sc55 midis accurately.

My test cases for gs are

rtft.mid (R T F T)
foo.mid (Foo)
absence.mid (When Absence Materializes)
all by Kim Burgaard

mattw wrote on 2023-11-27, 21:16:

megatron-uk wrote on 2023-11-27, 21:12:

use it with mt32-pi

IMHO, using MT32-Pi is simply waste of money. you can buy thin-client for a fraction of those money run not just MT-32 emulation, but all the other available emulation plus even go fancy with very high-end sound card in that thin client, for example I have Futro with T56N, that I mentioned here:

In my case the mt32-pi is used because of the size - I have it integrated into a 5.25" drive bay in my 286 and 486DLC machines. The cost was limited to just the LCD screens as I already had surplus Pi3 boards and boxes full of buttons etc.

The intention was to have a standalone retro PC with MT32 and GM support, at a reasonable cost, which it definitely achieved.