VOGONS


First post, by Styler

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hi folks.
I recently bought a brand new ATI FireGL X3-256 on ebay. The card itself looks absolutely new and original, but I do have a problem with native FireGL drivers. Whatever FireGL driver I tried to install it thinks that I'm using X800 variation, meaning FireGL OpenGL driver fails on loading (the card shows up as normal ATI FireGL X3-256). With SoftFireGL patches it works perfectly fine. It's worth to notice that not all patches are needed to make it work. As I said the card looks legitimate, with the valid vbios and so on. I didn't disassemble it yet, but I have suspicion that some elements on PCB might be missing or knocked out.

Does anyone have the same card in collection? I'd appreciate if you can take hires pictures of PCB without heat-sink. I tried desperately to find them in the web without luck 🙁

Reply 1 of 14, by lost77

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Styler wrote on 2021-04-14, 08:13:

Whatever FireGL driver I tried to install it thinks that I'm using X800 variation, meaning FireGL OpenGL driver fails on loading (the card shows up as normal ATI FireGL X3-256).

Are you getting an error during driver installation or when you start windows?

Or do games just not work?

Reply 2 of 14, by Styler

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Drivers are installed perfectly fine but instead of FireGL panel I got a regular Radeon video drivers panels and all OpenGL games/apps use "OpenGL Microsoft GDI Generic driver", which means atioglgl.dll does not initialize properly due to failing on performing HW FireGL checks. After applying SoftFireGL patches it works as it should.

I use it with Dell Dimension 4600 MT (P4-2.66. i865PE, XP32 SP3). I hardly believe the workstation itself could be the source of the HW validation failure.

Reply 3 of 14, by lost77

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

The fact that OpenGL games don't work is normal. The FireGL driver is designed for workstation applications so it will only work with a few games (and run slow).

But I don't know why the control panel is the Radeon one.

Please check this Registry key and tell me what is says:
Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\OpenGLDrivers\atifglws\

Also, please check the device ID in device manager (VEN_1002&DEV_XXXX)

Did you try the soft mod before using the X3 (on another card)? Maybe it screwed up some registry settings.

Reply 4 of 14, by Styler

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

>> The fact that OpenGL games don't work is normal. The FireGL driver is designed for workstation applications so it will only work with a few games (and run slow).
No, it's not normal. FGL OpenGL driver atioglgl.dll is actually the same ICD OpenGL but with some DCC oriented improvements. It might introduce some glitches in OpenGL game, but at least it should initialize. This is not a first time when I deal with FireGL cards. I had FGL 8800 at work place back in the day and Radeon 9500 at home which I softmodded to X1. The current behavior of the X3 is exactly as would try to install FireGL drivers on Radeon card with flashed bios from FireGL. There is no drastic difference between X800 PRO and FireGL X3 cards except resistor jumpers on the PCB (as it used to be). They both utilize the same GPU (R420). Since the card looks as a brand new reference X3 card, I suppose there is an issue on PCB and I'd like to compare all components with another working sample of the card.

>> Please check this Registry key and tell me what is says:
>> Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\OpenGLDrivers\atifglws\
Dll = Atioglgl.dll

>> Also, please check the device ID in device manager (VEN_1002&DEV_XXXX)
VEN_1002%DEV_4A4D

>> Did you try the soft mod before using the X3 (on another card)? Maybe it screwed up some registry settings.
No, I didn't. I even reinstalled XP to be sure that there is not soft-related issue

Basically, when FireGL driver and cpanel are installed and miniport driver detects a valid card we should have this set of panels in the driver settings. if "Configuration" panel is missing it's a good indication that driver did not recognize your card as FireGL.
xp_adapter.png

Reply 5 of 14, by lost77

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Styler wrote on 2021-04-14, 18:45:

>> Also, please check the device ID in device manager (VEN_1002&DEV_XXXX)
VEN_1002%DEV_4A4D

That is the right one so if your card was originally a Radeon is it hard modded to FireGL and should behave as one. EDIT: Not actually sure the Device ID is read from the BIOS or resistors on these cards.

Styler wrote on 2021-04-14, 18:45:

Basically, when FireGL driver and cpanel are installed and miniport driver detects a valid card we should have this set of panels in the driver settings. if "Configuration" panel is missing it's a good indication that driver did not recognize your card as FireGL.

Interesting, none of the FireGL cards I have work with most games with the FireGL OpenGL driver. Phil also did a video of the 8800 and had the same issue.

I can't remember if I got that configuration tab in the display properties, have been a few years. I have 8800, X1 and X2, maybe 8 total. I just use the atioglxx.dll from the Radeon drivers to play games.

I guess they could all be Radeon cards with FireGL BIOS.

Reply 6 of 14, by Styler

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

yep, I watched Phils videos. As I can see he has exactly the same card (I guess even from the same German seller) and his driver installation process doesn't have the problem unlike mine.
You can note on the video down below that ATI CCC has "Workstation" tab, meaning no issues at all! And yes, of course I tried this driver version with CCC - the same shit.
https://youtu.be/ES7ai6hzuFg?t=461

Reply 7 of 14, by Styler

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I took off the heat sink today. Here are some pictures with the BIOS. Looks totally normal, haven't found anything suspicious.. It's based on X850. I guess this should be fine, the same R400 architecture. Have no idea what can be wrong.

Attachments

Reply 8 of 14, by Lazar81

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hello,
I also have the same card - got it new few month ago. I had several issues with this card. And not enough patience to solve them 🙈.. Maybe I'll try again this week.
Btw: any chance to get it running in Windows 98?

486-VIP-IO | CYRIX 5x86 | 16MB | MACH32 VLB | CT1740 | 4GB CF
-
6VIA5T | PIII-S 1400 | 512MB | GF4Ti4600 | TT GOLD 16/96 | 120GB SSD
-
GA-EP45 DS4 | X5470 | 4GB | RADEON HD 5870 | SB0220 | 1TB SSD
-
ROLAND MT-32 | ROLAND CM-32L | YAMAHA S-YXG50

Reply 9 of 14, by Styler

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

>>any chance to get it running in Windows 98?
You can do it easily ATI x800 And Windows 98 SE
Any driver with X800 support can be used. You Just need to create a new record in drivers inf file or pick existing for X800 adapter and change DEVICE_ID to your card IDs

For example:

[before editing]
"RADEON X800 Series" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A4A
"RADEON X800 Series Secondary" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A6A

[after editing]
"ATI FireGL X3-256" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A4D
"ATI FireGL X3-256 Secondary" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A6D

Reply 10 of 14, by Lazar81

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Styler wrote on 2021-05-26, 18:36:
>>any chance to get it running in Windows 98? You can do it easily ATI x800 And Windows 98 SE Any driver with X800 support can […]
Show full quote

>>any chance to get it running in Windows 98?
You can do it easily ATI x800 And Windows 98 SE
Any driver with X800 support can be used. You Just need to create a new record in drivers inf file or pick existing for X800 adapter and change DEVICE_ID to your card IDs

For example:

[before editing]
"RADEON X800 Series" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A4A
"RADEON X800 Series Secondary" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A6A

[after editing]
"ATI FireGL X3-256" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A4D
"ATI FireGL X3-256 Secondary" = ati2mtag_R420, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4A6D

Nice...
You are saying example... Means the IDs can vary?
And thx...

486-VIP-IO | CYRIX 5x86 | 16MB | MACH32 VLB | CT1740 | 4GB CF
-
6VIA5T | PIII-S 1400 | 512MB | GF4Ti4600 | TT GOLD 16/96 | 120GB SSD
-
GA-EP45 DS4 | X5470 | 4GB | RADEON HD 5870 | SB0220 | 1TB SSD
-
ROLAND MT-32 | ROLAND CM-32L | YAMAHA S-YXG50

Reply 12 of 14, by Lazar81

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

It's from the german seller bitbull ... They still have much of them

486-VIP-IO | CYRIX 5x86 | 16MB | MACH32 VLB | CT1740 | 4GB CF
-
6VIA5T | PIII-S 1400 | 512MB | GF4Ti4600 | TT GOLD 16/96 | 120GB SSD
-
GA-EP45 DS4 | X5470 | 4GB | RADEON HD 5870 | SB0220 | 1TB SSD
-
ROLAND MT-32 | ROLAND CM-32L | YAMAHA S-YXG50

Reply 14 of 14, by dizzydevil

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hello,

I already wanted to buy X3-256 from a German seller, but came across this topic on Vogons.
Could you give me a little more information for me?
Reading the topic, I realized that there would be no problems in Windows 98,
but in Windows XP this video card has problems in games with opengl.
Is this problem solvable?
I read that lost77 used the atioglxx.dll file from the radeon drivers and maybe it works?
If I buy this video card, can I play Windows xp games under opengl?