Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-23, 21:10:

Aebtdom wrote on 2022-03-17, 14:47:

Oof... you love living on the edge don't you?
Well, time will tell.

Maybe you could help. I've installed the Riva TNT2 first then the Voodoo 1 but I only get a 16 Colours mode...or 2.... I have the Monster 3D Options but I can't change the Nvidia ones. Any clue what I am doing wrong?

Check in "Device Manager" for any conflicts. Is everything working properly?
What DirectX version are you using?
Are you using drivers from the CD? If so, they will be very old.

I also suggest to completely uninstall all of your video cards (and physically remove the Voodoo2) and software/drivers. Install a single card at a time, starting with the TNT2, of course. Once that is working, then add the Voodoo card back into the system and continue software/driver installation.

Sounds like a driver issue for the TNT. Grab the 7.76 detonators and see if that helps.

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-23, 21:23:

Check in "Device Manager" for any conflicts. Is everything working properly? What DirectX version are you using? Are you using […]
Show full quote

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-23, 21:10:

Aebtdom wrote on 2022-03-17, 14:47:

Oof... you love living on the edge don't you?
Well, time will tell.

Maybe you could help. I've installed the Riva TNT2 first then the Voodoo 1 but I only get a 16 Colours mode...or 2.... I have the Monster 3D Options but I can't change the Nvidia ones. Any clue what I am doing wrong?

Check in "Device Manager" for any conflicts. Is everything working properly?
What DirectX version are you using?
Are you using drivers from the CD? If so, they will be very old.

I also suggest to completely uninstall all of your video cards (and physically remove the Voodoo2) and software/drivers. Install a single card at a time, starting with the TNT2, of course. Once that is working, then add the Voodoo card back into the system and continue software/driver installation.

Followed youre steps and the TNT2 is now working but the Monster 3D Multimedia isnt if i use Mojo it tells me "Monster 3D Board not Installed" but i get a picture over the loop cable and the card is somehow "warm" so its working....

Well the Card is working somehow. It Shows the 3DFX Screen and then it freezes...can sit down and wait 20 Minutes nothing changes.

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 00:17:

Well the Card is working somehow. It Shows the 3DFX Screen and then it freezes...can sit down and wait 20 Minutes nothing changes.

Let’s hope the Voodoo2 is not dead. This is usually a sign. Hanging on initialization and then the whole system freezes when 3D is engaged. Card is warm to hot. It’s a bit early to make this judgement, though.

What driver version?

Run dxdiag. The screen should flash/blackout before the utility appears if the voodoo card is working properly. You should see two display tabs: display 1 is the tnt2. Display 2 is the voodoo. Run all tests on each display tab for both displays. What are the results?

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 04:46:

Let’s hope the Voodoo2 is not dead. This is usually a sign. Hanging on initialization and then the whole system freezes when 3D […]
Show full quote

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 00:17:

Well the Card is working somehow. It Shows the 3DFX Screen and then it freezes...can sit down and wait 20 Minutes nothing changes.

Let’s hope the Voodoo2 is not dead. This is usually a sign. Hanging on initialization and then the whole system freezes when 3D is engaged. Card is warm to hot. It’s a bit early to make this judgement, though.

What driver version?

Run dxdiag. The screen should flash/blackout before the utility appears if the voodoo card is working properly. You should see two display tabs: display 1 is the tnt2. Display 2 is the voodoo. Run all tests on each display tab for both displays. What are the results?

4.10.01.1600_of_the_monster_3d_driver
And its a Voodoo 1.
Running on a Celeron 600 66fsb.

Ive trothle the celeron via chipset throttle to 1/8 its a Intel board and then it could run the Monster 3dfx Demos. NFS2 was running to the point
where the menue shows up. Dxdiag will follow iam doing the tests right now.

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 04:46:

Let’s hope the Voodoo2 is not dead. This is usually a sign. Hanging on initialization and then the whole system freezes when 3D […]
Show full quote

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 00:17:

Well the Card is working somehow. It Shows the 3DFX Screen and then it freezes...can sit down and wait 20 Minutes nothing changes.

Let’s hope the Voodoo2 is not dead. This is usually a sign. Hanging on initialization and then the whole system freezes when 3D is engaged. Card is warm to hot. It’s a bit early to make this judgement, though.

What driver version?

Run dxdiag. The screen should flash/blackout before the utility appears if the voodoo card is working properly. You should see two display tabs: display 1 is the tnt2. Display 2 is the voodoo. Run all tests on each display tab for both displays. What are the results?

Direct Draw Passed was just one test. And direct 3d passed to. Was 2 Tests

That's good news. If it had locked up on the DXDIAG tests, thar'd be trouble.

Is this Need for Speed 2: SE? You need the special edition to run Glide using the NFS2SEA.EXE file (it's on the CD).

What DirectX version do you have installed?

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:18:

That's good news. If it had locked up on the DXDIAG tests, thar'd be trouble.

Is this Need for Speed 2: SE? You need the special edition to run Glide using the NFS2SEA.EXE file (it's on the CD).

What DirectX version do you have installed?

DX7. And yeah iam doing this. Software Mode runs fine.

It only Need for Speed 2 giving you a hard time? What other games have your tried?

600MHz might be too fast for the Voodoo1. Have you tried or are you able to reduce the CPU speed further to less than 450MHz?

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:31:

It only Need for Speed 2 giving you a hard time? What other games have your tried?

600MHz might be too fast for the Voodoo1. Have you tried or are you able to reduce the CPU speed further to less than 450MHz?

Ive tried the Chipset Throttle i cant set the Multiplier. But ive bought a Celeron 400 today. And ive tried NFS2 and the 3dfx Monster Demos. None are working until i set the trottle to 1/8 via Chipset then it slowly works. NFS2 still wont work it crashes at the menue. After the 3dfx Logo and Loading screen. The Demos run slow then but are working. So it might be a Speed problem? I thought 66FSB was the only problem with the Voodoo 1. I saw people using p4 and Voodoo 1 cards working and even p3 above 800mhz. Should i change the board maybe i have a VIA with a P3 900Mhz FSb 100

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:38:

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:31:

It only Need for Speed 2 giving you a hard time? What other games have your tried?

600MHz might be too fast for the Voodoo1. Have you tried or are you able to reduce the CPU speed further to less than 450MHz?

Ive tried the Chipset Throttle i cant set the Multiplier. But ive bought a Celeron 400 today. And ive tried NFS2 and the 3dfx Monster Demos. None are working until i set the trottle to 1/8 via Chipset then it slowly works. NFS2 still wont work it crashes at the menue. After the 3dfx Logo and Loading screen. The Demos run slow then but are working. So it might be a Speed problem? I thought 66FSB was the only problem with the Voodoo 1. I saw people using p4 and Voodoo 1 cards working and even p3 above 800mhz. Should i change the board maybe i have a VIA with a P3 900Mhz FSb 100

It's possible, sometimes you get a good one or some other factors are involved, but in general, you want to stay below 450Mhz. 100MHz bus is usually OK. A 333/66, 350/100, or 400/100 Pentium II are ideal for extracting the limits of a Voodoo1. Probably some other Celeron around this range also, but I'm not familiar with ideal usage of Celerons - I generally avoid them like the plague outside of keep a few around for troubleshooting purposes.

Try playing Turok. This game is highly compatible and easy on the Voodoo1 - it should play smoothly at 30fps most of the time.

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:45:

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:38:

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:31:

It only Need for Speed 2 giving you a hard time? What other games have your tried?

600MHz might be too fast for the Voodoo1. Have you tried or are you able to reduce the CPU speed further to less than 450MHz?

Ive tried the Chipset Throttle i cant set the Multiplier. But ive bought a Celeron 400 today. And ive tried NFS2 and the 3dfx Monster Demos. None are working until i set the trottle to 1/8 via Chipset then it slowly works. NFS2 still wont work it crashes at the menue. After the 3dfx Logo and Loading screen. The Demos run slow then but are working. So it might be a Speed problem? I thought 66FSB was the only problem with the Voodoo 1. I saw people using p4 and Voodoo 1 cards working and even p3 above 800mhz. Should i change the board maybe i have a VIA with a P3 900Mhz FSb 100

It's possible, sometimes you get a good one or some other factors are involved, but in general, you want to stay below 450Mhz. 100MHz bus is usually OK. A 333/66, 350/100, or 400/100 Pentium II are ideal for extracting the limits of a Voodoo1. Probably some other Celeron around this range also, but I'm not familiar with ideal usage of Celerons - I generally avoid them like the plague outside of keep a few around for troubleshooting purposes.

Try playing Turok. This game is highly compatible and easy on the Voodoo1 - it should play smoothly at 30fps most of the time.

Whats wrong with the Celerons? P2s are quite expensiv.

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:56:

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:45:

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:38:

Ive tried the Chipset Throttle i cant set the Multiplier. But ive bought a Celeron 400 today. And ive tried NFS2 and the 3dfx Monster Demos. None are working until i set the trottle to 1/8 via Chipset then it slowly works. NFS2 still wont work it crashes at the menue. After the 3dfx Logo and Loading screen. The Demos run slow then but are working. So it might be a Speed problem? I thought 66FSB was the only problem with the Voodoo 1. I saw people using p4 and Voodoo 1 cards working and even p3 above 800mhz. Should i change the board maybe i have a VIA with a P3 900Mhz FSb 100

It's possible, sometimes you get a good one or some other factors are involved, but in general, you want to stay below 450Mhz. 100MHz bus is usually OK. A 333/66, 350/100, or 400/100 Pentium II are ideal for extracting the limits of a Voodoo1. Probably some other Celeron around this range also, but I'm not familiar with ideal usage of Celerons - I generally avoid them like the plague outside of keep a few around for troubleshooting purposes.

Try playing Turok. This game is highly compatible and easy on the Voodoo1 - it should play smoothly at 30fps most of the time.

Whats wrong with the Celerons? P2s are quite expensiv.

There's nothing wrong with them. Most people love them, especially around this time frame. I Irrationally avoid them is all because I have always had access to Pentium IIs and IIIs. I'm not generally fond of "budget" parts, even if they are of greater value. I never used Celerons 'back in the day' and it continues to today. Pentium IIs are dirt cheap today. It's the Slot 1 motherboards, which can be costly if one is of the mindset $80-$100 is costly. (which it could be.. depends on the goals, person, budget, etc.) And I buy motherboards with the box and all accessories for that price, in general. You should be able to do a lot better than that for a loose one. The problems here won't because it's a Celeron per se, that's for sure.

Mendocino Celerons are great at 100Mhz FSB. They are the fastest Pentium 2 CPUs for certain workloads where smaller cache suffices. 366 can be overclocked to 550Mhz. Since the multiplier is just 5.5x, it doesn't take too high performance hit due to smaller cache unlike Coppermine Celerons. Some Celerons 400 work at 600, but 366 at 550 is the safest bet. Great for old PII boards not supporting PIII. PII 450 is extremely rare and expensive.

Coppermine Celerons take a major performance hit from small cache due to very high multiplier. Cache is only 4way associative vs 8way on PIII which means lower efficiency. Because of that Coppermine Celeron 950 is roughly equal to PIII 700 in 3D Mark. Anyone contemplating Coppermine Celerons for gaming should be aiming for 900-1100Mhz range to get decent performance out of them.

AlexZ wrote on 2022-03-24, 20:14:

Mendocino Celerons are great at 100Mhz FSB. They are the fastest Pentium 2 CPUs for certain workloads where smaller cache suffices. 366 can be overclocked to 550Mhz. Since the multiplier is just 5.5x, it doesn't take too high performance hit due to smaller cache unlike Coppermine Celerons. Some Celerons 400 work at 600, but 366 at 550 is the safest bet. Great for old PII boards not supporting PIII. PII 450 is extremely rare and expensive.

Coppermine Celerons take a major performance hit from small cache due to very high multiplier. Cache is only 4way associative vs 8way on PIII which means lower efficiency. Because of that Coppermine Celeron 950 is roughly equal to PIII 700 in 3D Mark. Anyone contemplating Coppermine Celerons for gaming should be aiming for 900-1100Mhz range to get decent performance out of them.

Well ill need to Downclock more then to Overclock. Cause my Celeron 600 is still to fast for the Voodoo i guess. But thanks for the Help. Ill have Plenty of P3 from 667-1000 and then P4s following.

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 15:01:

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:56:

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:45:

It's possible, sometimes you get a good one or some other factors are involved, but in general, you want to stay below 450Mhz. 100MHz bus is usually OK. A 333/66, 350/100, or 400/100 Pentium II are ideal for extracting the limits of a Voodoo1. Probably some other Celeron around this range also, but I'm not familiar with ideal usage of Celerons - I generally avoid them like the plague outside of keep a few around for troubleshooting purposes.

Try playing Turok. This game is highly compatible and easy on the Voodoo1 - it should play smoothly at 30fps most of the time.

Whats wrong with the Celerons? P2s are quite expensiv.

There's nothing wrong with them. Most people love them, especially around this time frame. I Irrationally avoid them is all because I have always had access to Pentium IIs and IIIs. I'm not generally fond of "budget" parts, even if they are of greater value. I never used Celerons 'back in the day' and it continues to today. Pentium IIs are dirt cheap today. It's the Slot 1 motherboards, which can be costly if one is of the mindset $80-$100 is costly. (which it could be.. depends on the goals, person, budget, etc.) And I buy motherboards with the box and all accessories for that price, in general. You should be able to do a lot better than that for a loose one. The problems here won't because it's a Celeron per se, that's for sure.

BTW wanted to tell you, yeah the card was broken it had broken conducting paths as i got the celeron 400 the card started the 3dfx logo now had no textures anymore just black somethings so i checked the card more detailed and found out that the lower chip for the both had cutted conducting paths to ram 1 and ram 4 so it either gave a circuit or whatever...it never had a chance...glad the seller offered a refund.

bloodem wrote on 2022-03-17, 18:43:

FYI, even with a Voodoo 2, you can still experience issues related to speed in certain statically linked DOS games (black screen / out of range / checkerboard patterns). It's unclear if this is a hardware/design issue or a software issue with the way some of these games initiate the Glide API (my guess is software issue).

From my tests, it doesn't seem like CPU speed is the main problem, though, it's more closely related to FSB speed (with the Voodoo 2, staying at FSB100 seems to work great for all old DOS games, while the Voodoo 1 might sometimes need FSB66).

Even weirder is the fact that Voodoo 1 cards can sometimes work with extremely fast systems (with very fast double/quad pumped FSB frequencies), so we're probably still missing a piece of the puzzle.

That does sound like something related to the speed of direct IO on memory mapped peripheral

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-30, 18:03:

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 15:01:

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-24, 14:56:

Whats wrong with the Celerons? P2s are quite expensiv.

There's nothing wrong with them. Most people love them, especially around this time frame. I Irrationally avoid them is all because I have always had access to Pentium IIs and IIIs. I'm not generally fond of "budget" parts, even if they are of greater value. I never used Celerons 'back in the day' and it continues to today. Pentium IIs are dirt cheap today. It's the Slot 1 motherboards, which can be costly if one is of the mindset $80-$100 is costly. (which it could be.. depends on the goals, person, budget, etc.) And I buy motherboards with the box and all accessories for that price, in general. You should be able to do a lot better than that for a loose one. The problems here won't because it's a Celeron per se, that's for sure.

BTW wanted to tell you, yeah the card was broken it had broken conducting paths as i got the celeron 400 the card started the 3dfx logo now had no textures anymore just black somethings so i checked the card more detailed and found out that the lower chip for the both had cutted conducting paths to ram 1 and ram 4 so it either gave a circuit or whatever...it never had a chance...glad the seller offered a refund.

The 2nd time (card) will be the charm.

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-30, 19:53:

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-03-30, 18:03:

Meatball wrote on 2022-03-24, 15:01:

There's nothing wrong with them. Most people love them, especially around this time frame. I Irrationally avoid them is all because I have always had access to Pentium IIs and IIIs. I'm not generally fond of "budget" parts, even if they are of greater value. I never used Celerons 'back in the day' and it continues to today. Pentium IIs are dirt cheap today. It's the Slot 1 motherboards, which can be costly if one is of the mindset $80-$100 is costly. (which it could be.. depends on the goals, person, budget, etc.) And I buy motherboards with the box and all accessories for that price, in general. You should be able to do a lot better than that for a loose one. The problems here won't because it's a Celeron per se, that's for sure.

BTW wanted to tell you, yeah the card was broken it had broken conducting paths as i got the celeron 400 the card started the 3dfx logo now had no textures anymore just black somethings so i checked the card more detailed and found out that the lower chip for the both had cutted conducting paths to ram 1 and ram 4 so it either gave a circuit or whatever...it never had a chance...glad the seller offered a refund.

The 2nd time (card) will be the charm.

Finger Crossed. Should arrive tomorrow hope this time it will work. Thanks for your help 😀