Mine arrived also, I gave it a whirl on my main PC using a super famicom controller and dosbox - A and B are not reversed, not sure how you managed that, but nice one 😀 It's a solid unit and will look great on the retro desk. Thanks Volo!

Pierre32 wrote on 2021-09-21, 07:29:

Arrived! It's a nice little unit. For the first test I figured Nesticle under DOS would be appropriate. It does what it says on the box. Just excellent. Thanks Volo 😀

Come on! Using this converter with emulators is boring! It is a sin I admit having, but still a sin!

Try various and weird MS-DOS and Win9x games:
Some clunky platformers, like Jill of the Jungle ore Duke 1 become unexpectedly responsive. DOSilevania becomes... not fun, but it almost starts to resemble a game.
Had a lot of joy playing racing games, like NFS, High Octane and Fatal Racing (bind acceleration and break to buttons; D-pad up and down - to gear shifts).
Also helpful with 3d flight arcades - Terminal Velocity plays nice. Want to try it with those classic Star Wars space sims.
Playing Doom with gamepad and mouse feels weird... Like playing on a Wii.

Part of philosophy of the device is injecting some pleasant quirkiness into retrogaming experience. Sticking to old controllers retains the proper old-timey feeling, but adds a pleasent exploration vibe.

Pierre32 wrote on 2021-09-21, 07:29:

I haven't messed around with presets yet, so there is plenty of experimentation to do. More controllers to test too.

Please do. I can't guarantee that it shall work with some of those, but it might be fun.
Do you have a SNES-to-NES adaptor? I have not had a chance to test one of those, but NES pads *might* also work.

breech wrote on 2021-09-21, 09:25:

A and B are not reversed, not sure how you managed that, but nice one 😀 It's a solid unit and will look great on the retro desk. Thanks Volo!

Thanks! Not sure what you meant. How can they be reversed? Maybe I should've reversed those?

Can't wait to get mine!

Volo wrote on 2021-09-21, 14:58:

Want to try it with those classic Star Wars space sims.

That was my plan, to try it with X-Wing and/or Tie Fighter 😉

Volo wrote on 2021-09-21, 14:58:

Come on! Using this converter with emulators is boring! It is a sin I admit having, but still a sin!

I have been told 😁 Don't worry, plenty of more interesting tests ahead.

Volo wrote on 2021-09-21, 14:58:

Do you have a SNES-to-NES adaptor? I have not had a chance to test one of those, but NES pads *might* also work.

No NES adapter or pads. I have a Quickshot 3-button Megadrive pad, and a pretty awful no-name Atari stick. I wish I still had my Sega Arcade Power Stick!

Here are my controllers, and some test results.

- SNES pad
- Quickshot 3 button Megadrive pad
- Terrible off-brand Atari joystick

Games that needed zero customisations - just plug in and play:

Silpheed with Atari stick. The single button maps to Space, which is the fire button so that's perfect. How authentically 80s it feels!

Tyrian with Atari stick. Worked great too, but the stick was getting annoying at this point. I swapped it for the SNES pad, and it was superb.

Paku Paku with SNES pad - nice. I also tried the Quickshite pad with this, which worked perfectly, but it's just not as accurate or nice as the SNES pad. So not much desire to test that one further. Everything is SNES from here on.

Chip's Challenge - nice.

Games that required mapping changes in the game menu (sticking with the default Volo adapter profile):

Need for Speed - Steering is already on arrow keys, thus d-pad L/R by default. I set gears to d-pad U/D, and throttle/brake to bumpers. Sweet.

Wolf3D (actually this might work well with default game mapping, but I had already changed them to WASD earlier). Good fun.

Games that required mapping changes in the Volo adapter. The serious stuff now!

Blackthorne. This game has no default gamepad support, nor any keyboard remapping options. The mappings it does have are the arrow keys, plus six other keys. Made for SNES! I'm just rehashing the manual contents here, but I'll walk through the mapping process anyway:

First I switched to Profile #1 on my SNES controller (default is #0) by holding Start + Select, and hitting the Y button. Now I'm in an empty profile and need to assign buttons. So I turn on Scroll Lock, press the Up arrow on the keyboard, then hit Up on the d-pad. The Scroll Lock light flashes to acknowledge the input. Then Down arrow, d-pad Down, etc etc until all buttons are mapped. Then turn off Scroll Lock. Profile #1 is now custom mapped for Blackthorne. Quite a nice process! And a very nice game on a SNES pad.

Now a bug report maybe?

Next I configured Profile #2 for Microprose Grand Prix. Plays great, but I had a small issue here at first. Mapping had gone fine. I started up the game and went to a quick race. On the grid, keyboard input stopped working. I rebooted (using reset button) and got a no keyboard error on POST. My system uses an AT to PS/2 adapter that sometimes needs a wiggle, so I thought nothing of it. I powered down, wiggled and reseated everything. Powered up, jumped into the game, and everything was fine.

For the record: The mappings applied here were < > A Z Esc Enter Space

Next I began to configure Profile #3 for Tomb Raider. Mappings required: Up Down Left Right End Space Alt Ctrl Shift Keypad0 PgDn. A more serious issue this time: I am losing keyboard input while I am in the process of assigning keys. Reboot with the reset button, and again I get the no keyboard error. Here's something I learned this time around: If I do a cold boot (full power off and back on) instead of just hitting the reset button, I don't get the keyboard error on boot.

Anyway, back to the mapping. I wondered if it was something to do with the profile I was using. So I switched to Profile #6, and then #4, and got the same behaviour. I'd get most of the way through mapping, starting with arrow keys on the d-pad, and it would fail close to the end of the process when I was assigning Space/Alt/Ctrl/Shift on the ABXY buttons. I started to wonder if special characters had something to do with it?

So I started again, back on Profile #3. This time, arrow keys to the d-pad as usual, but then instead of applying all of Tomb Raider's special keys, I mapped every other button to letters ( A B X Y L R O E). Mapping succeeded! Of course I then had to change the mappings in Tomb Raider settings too, replacing all special keys with the letters I had assigned. And it plays great.

So that's a report I guess. Let me know if there is any more testing I can do to help (you can PM or email if you prefer).

But this aside, I have to say the profile & mapping system you have devised is really cool 😀

-----
EDIT for future readers: The above issues only occured when running through an Aten CS-122 KVM, which has a hotkey switching function. In addition to that, the number of cables and adapters required to have the KVM in the setup can introduce many points of failure. I haven't fully fault-found the issue, but if you're not running a hotkeyed KVM this issue is nothing to worry about. Volo's device is solid.

Pierre32 wrote on 2021-09-24, 13:41:

So that's a report I guess. Let me know if there is any more testing I can do to help (you can PM or email if you prefer).

Woah! Please let me PM you, so I try to replicate the issue. I hope it is just a bad connection.
I made some time-out checks to stop the thing from crashing, but you scare me.

Volo & I are chatting and while I still have a couple of tests to do, it definitely looks like an equipment issue at my end, not an issue with Volo's adapter. Which is great news - me looking silly is the best outcome here. I've run the same key mapping process on a different rig and experienced no issues.

Received my device this morning and the default button layout made Doom an obvious quick test candidate, it works beautifully Volo, great stuff! Used a SNES controller.
Don't have time for a more in-depth testing right now but this will definitely get some playtime in the future 😉

Congrats 😀

Discussion turned dead for some reason.

On one hand I am pleased, as my Gamepad to PS/2 Adapter is designed to be plugged in and forgotten that it is even there. Since it works - there is nothing to talk about (except weird KVM incompatibility encountered by Pierre32).
On the other hand... the discussion is awfully dead. 💀

Sitrep:

1. I accidentally bought two decent-looking Super Famicoms in Japan for mere peanuts. I'll have a chance to test the device with Japanese SNES controllers in a month or so.
2. I am toying with an alternative firmware. The controllers won't work there, but I'll be able to redefine physical buttons on the keyboard. Maybe teach the thing macros sequences? Who knows. Perhaps a different product shall come out of it.

Volo wrote on 2020-05-11, 07:06:

). It could've been less for SNES pad, but it wouldn't be fair. Since a single VGA frame is about 13.3ms - same frame signal delivery is pretty much guaranteed. So there is no latency at all.

I disagree. Yes, there may be latency. I believe that you are assuming that the button press is made in the first millisecond of the frame, but if I do the button press in the fifth millisecond it would no longer arrive on time and the button press would be registered in the next frame. Therefore, the probability that there is no latency is approximately 30% (more or less), we will almost always have a frame of lag, right?

On the other hand, congratulations on the product, it is incredible, thank you very much. I'm already looking forward to my order 😀

oskarzer0 wrote on 2021-11-01, 22:01:

Volo wrote on 2020-05-11, 07:06:

). It could've been less for SNES pad, but it wouldn't be fair. Since a single VGA frame is about 13.3ms - same frame signal delivery is pretty much guaranteed. So there is no latency at all.

I disagree. Yes, there may be latency. I believe that you are assuming that the button press is made in the first millisecond of the frame, but if I do the button press in the fifth millisecond it would no longer arrive on time and the button press would be registered in the next frame. Therefore, the probability that there is no latency is approximately 30% (more or less), we will almost always have a frame of lag, right?

On the other hand, congratulations on the product, it is incredible, thank you very much. I'm already looking forward to my order 😀

You are quoting a RE-HE-HEALLY early message. Since then I've change algorithm a bit:
1. If my device "senses" Sega Genesis/MD gamepad connected to it - it updates gamepad states each 8ms (I've made it to alleviate issues with perfect synchronization of daisy-chained adapters). Yes, there might be lag, but it is imperceptible.
2. If there is no Sega Genesis/MD gamepad connected (i.e. Master System pad or Atari stick or SNES-only) - it switches to "frenzy" mode, checking its state each 4ms (3 times per frame). No lag at all! But some crappy controllers may experience jitter (4ms is barely enough to mitigate bounce).

While mathematically Sega Genesis gamepad should have 50% of one frame lag, subjectively, it seems to be more responsive than SNES pad... Must be due to different button design: Sega buttons are softer and have longer throw - they welcome well-timed mashing. SNES controller is designed for more deliberate push-and-hold attitude.

P.S. I'm not sure that most keyboards actually query button states as often as once per 8ms. When first using gamepads in Norton Commander to choose games, I tended to "undershoot" the navigation. It's just that precise!

Volo wrote on 2021-11-05, 08:54:

You are quoting a RE-HE-HEALLY early message. Since then I've change algorithm a bit: 1. If my device "senses" Sega Genesis/MD g […]
Show full quote

oskarzer0 wrote on 2021-11-01, 22:01:

Volo wrote on 2020-05-11, 07:06:

). It could've been less for SNES pad, but it wouldn't be fair. Since a single VGA frame is about 13.3ms - same frame signal delivery is pretty much guaranteed. So there is no latency at all.

I disagree. Yes, there may be latency. I believe that you are assuming that the button press is made in the first millisecond of the frame, but if I do the button press in the fifth millisecond it would no longer arrive on time and the button press would be registered in the next frame. Therefore, the probability that there is no latency is approximately 30% (more or less), we will almost always have a frame of lag, right?

On the other hand, congratulations on the product, it is incredible, thank you very much. I'm already looking forward to my order 😀

You are quoting a RE-HE-HEALLY early message. Since then I've change algorithm a bit:
1. If my device "senses" Sega Genesis/MD gamepad connected to it - it updates gamepad states each 8ms (I've made it to alleviate issues with perfect synchronization of daisy-chained adapters). Yes, there might be lag, but it is imperceptible.
2. If there is no Sega Genesis/MD gamepad connected (i.e. Master System pad or Atari stick or SNES-only) - it switches to "frenzy" mode, checking its state each 4ms (3 times per frame). No lag at all! But some crappy controllers may experience jitter (4ms is barely enough to mitigate bounce).

While mathematically Sega Genesis gamepad should have 50% of one frame lag, subjectively, it seems to be more responsive than SNES pad... Must be due to different button design: Sega buttons are softer and have longer throw - they welcome well-timed mashing. SNES controller is designed for more deliberate push-and-hold attitude.

P.S. I'm not sure that most keyboards actually query button states as often as once per 8ms. When first using gamepads in Norton Commander to choose games, I tended to "undershoot" the navigation. It's just that precise!

Thanks for the elaborate answer. The topic of lag in the controllers is very curious, I imagine that the less electronics they have, less lag.
The best controller should be NeoGeo's db15, which doesn't have any electronics inside. (like arcade machines)

Greetings!

Volo wrote on 2021-10-25, 15:20:

Discussion turned dead for some reason. […]
Show full quote

Discussion turned dead for some reason.

On one hand I am pleased, as my Gamepad to PS/2 Adapter is designed to be plugged in and forgotten that it is even there. Since it works - there is nothing to talk about (except weird KVM incompatibility encountered by Pierre32).
On the other hand... the discussion is awfully dead. 💀

Sitrep:

1. I accidentally bought two decent-looking Super Famicoms in Japan for mere peanuts. I'll have a chance to test the device with Japanese SNES controllers in a month or so.
2. I am toying with an alternative firmware. The controllers won't work there, but I'll be able to redefine physical buttons on the keyboard. Maybe teach the thing macros sequences? Who knows. Perhaps a different product shall come out of it.

After our last discussion I had everything lined up for some meticulous testing to try to sort out the KVM problem. Then some nasty life things happened, and I haven't touched retro stuff in over a month. Not that my testing was that important; I'd already concluded that my KVM is just a cantankerous little bitch and I never really liked it anyway. And my 386 mobo up and died too. Two tragedies in a month - life is just rude sometimes.

But the good news is I acquired myself a genuine Master System controller in the meantime. So I look forward to playing with that 😁

Pierre32 wrote on 2021-11-05, 10:43:

After our last discussion I had everything lined up for some meticulous testing to try to sort out the KVM problem. Then some nasty life things happened, and I haven't touched retro stuff in over a month. Not that my testing was that important; I'd already concluded that my KVM is just a cantankerous little bitch and I never really liked it anyway. And my 386 mobo up and died too. Two tragedies in a month - life is just rude sometimes.

But the good news is I acquired myself a genuine Master System controller in the meantime. So I look forward to playing with that 😁

I believe your KVM is fine. It might be that my device touched it's configuration nerve somehow. I can't get my head why it gets confused.
It might be due to the way I use AVR internal resistors to form PS/2 signals. Switching from 1 to 0 and from 0 to 1 is a two stage process (i.e. pullup 5V -> hard 5V -> hard 0V, not a single state change, as in normal keyboards). Maybe injecting "hard 5V" is how network of KVMs are designed to communicate? I can't think of any other reason for the KVM to crash.

I'm sad that you 386 died. Those are becoming quite valuable and hard to mend. I hope we shall enjoy more of your tests.

From what I know, you are not supposed to drive the signals high ever, only let pullups do it. Exactly like with I2C bus.

Tiido wrote on 2021-11-05, 21:18:

From what I know, you are not supposed to drive the signals high ever, only let pullups do it. Exactly like with I2C bus.

I agree. The other alternative was: pullup -> high impedance -> low.
I've had it that way initially. High impendence tick was occasionally registered as a random state.
You may read of my issues with DOOM, I encountered like six months ago - the damn thing missed a keypress once per 10-15 minutes of frantic action, enough to catch a Cyberdemon's rocket in one's face and drive me mad!
Pullup -> high -> low works 100% reliably.

To be sure:
1. This high sate lasts only a couple of ticks.
2. I tested my computers with only using "hard" high signals - those work fine (no "magic white smoke"), but obviously the motherboard can't talk back, as it expects pullups.

Volo wrote on 2021-11-05, 21:12:

I'm sad that you 386 died. Those are becoming quite valuable and hard to mend. I hope we shall enjoy more of your tests.

You shall. Hopefully it's just a tantalum replacement for the 386. But I've got some Pentium systems ready to roll.

Situation update:

1. Received my Super Famicoms. Original Japanese Super Famicom controllers work with the adapter with no issue.
2. I'd like photos of my devices used in unusual and weird ways (ZX Spectrum Next, robots, mobile devices etc.). While adopting my original 2012 Raspberry Pi to act as Pi1541, I've ran out of parts, while being stuck at my village house. Being bored, I've made this thing out of junk I found around:
   

It's RetroPie using real European SNES controller through the adapter as an input. The lag is abysmal, but I did not expect otherwise from the original 2012 Pi. Fine for RPGs. Did you try any weird uses of the adapter?

Challenge accepted. OpenTyrian on Android, USB-C hub, and Quickshot Megadrive pad. Plays wonderfully!

Hey, are you still selling these? Thanks!