Iv said this elsewhere in regards to the current retro games market (especially with the whole WATA scandal coming to light) but I guess it applies to the PC scene too?

80% of the retro computer parts on Ebay arnt worth half what people are asking. No old, consumer, mass produced, piece of technology is worth $150+. Like what people are asking for
a Voodoo 2 or Sound Blaster Pro.

Some of this stuff is really cool to own though... its easy to get suckered in and forget your overpaying.

A lot of 'worth' is artificial, same with a lot of stocks. It does seem like stock prices fluctuate more than retro hardware. What will it take bring retro prices to their knees like COVID did with the stock market in March 2020?

Claris wrote on 2021-11-12, 23:49:

Iv said this elsewhere in regards to the current retro games market (especially with the whole WATA scandal coming to light) but […]
Show full quote

Iv said this elsewhere in regards to the current retro games market (especially with the whole WATA scandal coming to light) but I guess it applies to the PC scene too?

80% of the retro computer parts on Ebay arnt worth half what people are asking. No old, consumer, mass produced, piece of technology is worth $150+. Like what people are asking for
a Voodoo 2 or Sound Blaster Pro.

Some of this stuff is really cool to own though... its easy to get suckered in and forget your overpaying.

The reality is that if people are actually paying those asking prices, then that is indeed the item's worth.

Your own personal value judgement is not relevant, except to whether you personally choose to buy

"Mass produced" doesn't mean the same thing with regards to old computer equipment. If you had a Sound Blaster Pro in 1993, then you were probably the only person living on your street to have one. These days every second house probably contains at least one iPhone.

Add to that, the fact that (due to our species "awesome conservation skills") most of the 30 year old computer equip is now helpfully spreading it's chemicals into the earth of various landfills around the planet. An already tiny supply is now far tinier.

Add that that, the fact that the small amounts which are left are increasingly dying, year on year, yet further reducing that already-reduced amount, of what was only a tiny market to begin with!

Also, "how much $ is an experience worth" is an incredibly subjective concept. Nostalgia, the ability to do the very same things you did when you were young, using the very same things your young self did, is a massively valuable experience to many human beings. The suggestion that once over a certain age, things cannot possibly be of high value, is a very strange concept to me.

Shreddoc wrote on 2021-11-13, 00:56:

"Mass produced" doesn't mean the same thing with regards to old computer equipment. If you had a Sound Blaster Pro in 1993, then […]
Show full quote

"Mass produced" doesn't mean the same thing with regards to old computer equipment. If you had a Sound Blaster Pro in 1993, then you were probably the only person living on your street to have one. These days every second house probably contains at least one iPhone.

Add to that, the fact that (due to our species "awesome conservation skills") most of the 30 year old computer equip is now helpfully spreading it's chemicals into the earth of various landfills around the planet. An already tiny supply is now far tinier.

Add that that, the fact that the small amounts which are left are increasingly dying, year on year, yet further reducing that already-reduced amount, of what was only a tiny market to begin with!

Also, "how much $ is an experience worth" is an incredibly subjective concept. Nostalgia, the ability to do the very same things you did when you were young, using the very same things your young self did, is a massively valuable experience to many human beings. The suggestion that once over a certain age, things cannot possibly be of high value, is a very strange concept to me.

I know old things can have value, and I'll admit i mostly said all that coming from someone who's use to consoles. Where companies like Nintendo pumped out millions of cartridges. (Obviously its much much different for computers as demonstrated).

I just have a hard time believing *everything* old needs to have that much money value. Especially when it comes to video games.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-11-13, 00:46:

The reality is that if people are actually paying those asking prices, then that is indeed the item's worth.

I agree, and it's not like we're talking about rental property prices here, it's old hardware that's of no use outside of the hobby scene. People need a place to live, but they can get by without an Adlib Gold 😁

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-11-13, 00:46:

The reality is that if people are actually paying those asking prices, then that is indeed the item's worth.

well no, if anything it's worth it to the person who bought it, that's not how "worth" of anything is defined, if one person is going to buy a pebble off you for $100, but anyone else would only pay $1, that pebble is not worth $100, even if that's what you got for one.

imi wrote on 2021-11-13, 01:34:

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-11-13, 00:46:

The reality is that if people are actually paying those asking prices, then that is indeed the item's worth.

well no, if anything it's worth it to the person who bought it, that's not how "worth" of anything is defined, if one person is going to buy a pebble off you for $100, but anyone else would only pay $1, that pebble is not worth $100, even if that's what you got for one.

Yes of course, but these items in question aren't selling elsewhere for $1. People have a distorted view of their "worth" because they remember what they paid for them years ago which is simply no longer relevant

The finest hour of the retro computing hobby will be the day someone stumbles across a *huge* warehouse of unsold Sound Blaster Pros. And they rain down on us for $10 a piece.

(I can dream)

Like many collectible hobbies, there isn't much practical purpose in it except for market appreciation. There are modern methods to achieve a similar gaming experience, but with a different goal. The root cause of the collection is desire and craving, with an endless attempt to satisfy the addiction by acquiring more. This leads to further suffering (because there is no end), but like any habit, it is hard to kick. Thus I think the primary reason for the insane prices is addiction and trying to fill a lack. Obviously, I've not kicked the habit, but I openly recognise it. The e-waste folk are feeding everyone addictions and making a generous profit. I suppose they would be an analogous equivalent to a drug dealer.

While I try to keep my offers reasonable, others have less inhibitions (stronger addictions, deeper pockets) and up-up-up the prices go. If the trend just continues like this, then it may be reasonable to suggest that it is impossible to overpay for an item. Say you pay top dollar for something now - you outbid 50 other bids - did you over pay? Maybe you did, but wait a year and ask yourself the same question. This viewpoint looks at the hobby as an investment, while the other is as an addiction. In either case, it will not lead to contentment.

Claris wrote on 2021-11-13, 01:51:

The finest hour of the retro computing hobby will be the day someone stumbles across a *huge* warehouse of unsold Sound Blaster Pros. And they rain down on us for $10 a piece.

(I can dream)

I'd love nothing more than to see a glut of SB Pros flood the market and drive down prices. But their "worth" is and will remain a metric derived from a composite of the prices for which they sold in recent transactions.

If a bunch of them come around and sell for cheap, they all will be worth less. Which suits me because I got mine for free over a decade ago and have no particular interest in selling it.

feipoa wrote on 2021-11-13, 01:52:

While I try to keep my offers reasonable, others have less inhibitions (stronger addictions, deeper pockets) and up-up-up the prices go. If the trend just continues like this, then it may be reasonable to suggest that it is impossible to overpay for an item. Say you pay top dollar for something now - you outbid 50 other bids - did you over pay? Maybe you did, but wait a year and ask yourself the same question. This viewpoint looks at the hobby as an investment, while the other is as an addiction. In either case, it will not lead to contentment.

I tend to think of you as one of the more adept users here. Doesn't the knowledge you've acquired, however arcane, count for something? If you really feel that it doesn't, go do something else 🤣

Hobby? or Addiction?

Think about the fantasy situation described above, where a warehouse of NOS SBPro's is discovered and suddenly they are $10 for everyone.

If your primary and only real reaction is: "Wow, I can't wait to get one and look at it and use it and keep it forever, it's going to be amazing" - then I believe you are a (give or take the prefix "true" as you like) enthusiast.

If on the other hand your thoughts mainly linger on anything to do with monetary value or profits or losses - then perhaps it's less clear cut.

Not meaning to be overly judgemental.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-11-13, 02:03:

I tend to think of you as one of the more adept users here. Doesn't the knowledge you've acquired, however arcane, count for something? If you really feel that it doesn't, go do something else lol

lol. I've been telling myself that for a long time. Knowing what is good for you doesn't always translate into action. Analogously, most hardcore drug addicts surely know that their habit is not good for them, but they can't kick it. However, now that prices have gone up considerably, I can claim to myself (and others who question the addiction) that the hobby is a worthy investment!

I do enjoy the hardware exploring process and squeezing every speck of speed out of them, but this doesn't bring long-term contentment. It is fleeting. The activity still helps with drowning out the misery of life, but I'm sure there are more fulfilling and meaningful ways to accomplish this. Since I realise this and still engage the hobby, I have started viewing it more like an addiction. It is fun to watch the prices shoot up though, just like watching your stocks fly high, esp. if you bought in spring of 2020.

Edit: I should point out that I don't buy anything because because I want to profit from it. The purpose for me is exploration. The rising prices is just a nice side effect to counter the outside viewer who finds the hobby ridiculous.

Claris wrote on 2021-11-13, 01:51:

The finest hour of the retro computing hobby will be the day someone stumbles across a *huge* warehouse of unsold Sound Blaster Pros. And they rain down on us for $10 a piece.

(I can dream)

But why? Pretty much everybody and their brother/sister/cousin/in-law/acquaintance/enemy made perfectly good SB Pro clones.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-11-13, 03:13:

Claris wrote on 2021-11-13, 01:51:

The finest hour of the retro computing hobby will be the day someone stumbles across a *huge* warehouse of unsold Sound Blaster Pros. And they rain down on us for $10 a piece.

(I can dream)

But why? Pretty much everybody and their brother/sister/cousin/in-law/acquaintance/enemy made perfectly good SB Pro clones.

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing--some retro items are easily substituted like sound cards. I think (especially for feipoa) what people would really like to see is a warehouse full of IBM 5x86-133s, or a warehouse full of pristine AT cases.

cyclone3d wrote on 2021-11-13, 03:13:

Claris wrote on 2021-11-13, 01:51:

The finest hour of the retro computing hobby will be the day someone stumbles across a *huge* warehouse of unsold Sound Blaster Pros. And they rain down on us for $10 a piece.

(I can dream)

But why? Pretty much everybody and their brother/sister/cousin/in-law/acquaintance/enemy made perfectly good SB Pro clones.

A warehouse full of Gravis Ultrasounds then? :p

Yes, I vote for warehouse full of NIB mini tower AT cases with MHz display. Those are hard to come by now, and if you find some they are usually beaten up. I get a kick out of building novel systems in this timeframe, but without the case, there is no building.

A boxed european version of the Cyrix DRx2-33/66 just sold for $393. It wasn't an open auction, but a buy-it-now. I was surprised the seller was only asking for 349 euro. From the time I saw it listed to the time of it being sold was a matter of hours. I estimate it would have gone for at least $550 in open auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275047479839

I saw it listed but didn't want to pay that much. I guess my interest is slowing down 🤣 The seller is also a member here.

I will probably regret not buying it tho... 🤣