VOGONS


Reply 20 of 48, by squelch41

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SSTV2 wrote on 2021-11-06, 18:35:

*make sure that CPU uCode is up to date.

How do I check that and then, if necessary, update it?

V4P895P3 VLB Motherboard and AMD 486 133MHz CPU
64mb RAM, CF 4Gb HDD,
Realtek 8019 ethernet + XT-IDE bios ROM, ES1869 soundcard, VLB multi-io card Cirrus Logic GD5428 1mb VGA

440bx MSI 6119, modified slocket , celeron 1.1GHz, 256mb SD-RAM, CF 4GB HDD

Reply 21 of 48, by retardware

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squelch41 wrote on 2021-11-06, 22:24:

How do I check that and then, if necessary, update it?

Usually this should be done via BIOS update.
If there is no BIOS available with most recent microcodes, it should be done by the OS.
No idea though whether one can expect this from old Windows versions.
And microcode update is usually not enabled by default on most Linuxes.

There should be some CPU ID programs that also output the running microcode revision.
Compare yours with the ones here to see if newer ones are available.

Reply 22 of 48, by squelch41

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squelch41 wrote on 2021-11-06, 16:15:
Images attached, if they arent clear enough let me know and I'll try again. […]
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SSTV2 wrote on 2021-11-06, 15:18:

Post high ress pictures of bare slotkets from both sides, electric FC-PGA CPU design flaws should be apparent.

Images attached, if they arent clear enough let me know and I'll try again.

Slocket A has the PGA->FC-PGA wire bodge
Slocket B has the voltage pin bodge and I added the capacitors to the unpopulated CE1 and CE2 pags - they are 10uF capacitors. They made no difference to stability

Sorry, I just noticed, I mislabelled the image files for the bottoms of the slockets, though the description holds! 'A' is the one with green wire doing the FC-PGA bodge. As you can see, 'B' is labelled as FC-PGA on the board.
(I am sure you noticed this, is it just for completeness!)
Apologies!

V4P895P3 VLB Motherboard and AMD 486 133MHz CPU
64mb RAM, CF 4Gb HDD,
Realtek 8019 ethernet + XT-IDE bios ROM, ES1869 soundcard, VLB multi-io card Cirrus Logic GD5428 1mb VGA

440bx MSI 6119, modified slocket , celeron 1.1GHz, 256mb SD-RAM, CF 4GB HDD

Reply 23 of 48, by squelch41

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SSTV2 wrote on 2021-11-06, 18:35:

To do list for Slotket B:

*check whether G35 and G37 pins are connected, if not, short them. If 1st requirement in the list isn't met, connect these pins to V_1.5 also;

*check whether V_CMOS (AB36) is shorted to V_1.5 (AD36) or V_2.5 (Z36) on the slotket, if it's shorted to V_2.5, remove the short (unlikely case for B, but A might have this flaw);

re the above two -
1/ do you mean check if G35 and G37 are connected to each other or connected to the slocket edge connector?
2/ V_CMOS isnt shorted to either AD36 or Z36 - is that what I should expect or do I need to bridge AB36 to AD36?

Thanks!

V4P895P3 VLB Motherboard and AMD 486 133MHz CPU
64mb RAM, CF 4Gb HDD,
Realtek 8019 ethernet + XT-IDE bios ROM, ES1869 soundcard, VLB multi-io card Cirrus Logic GD5428 1mb VGA

440bx MSI 6119, modified slocket , celeron 1.1GHz, 256mb SD-RAM, CF 4GB HDD

Reply 24 of 48, by AlexZ

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MSI MS-6119 seems to officially support only 100Mhz FSB. I would first get a system stable at that frequency before going higher. Keep in mind we are dealing with worn out components thus usually less stable than new. 10% extra speed due to OC may not be worth potential instability. I would do that only if you run into a game your rig can't handle at stock frequency. I'm running my 1Ghz PIII downclocked to 750Mhz because I don't need the extra speed and don't want to do stability testing at the moment.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 256MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 25 of 48, by squelch41

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AlexZ wrote on 2021-11-13, 09:26:

MSI MS-6119 seems to officially support only 100Mhz FSB. I would first get a system stable at that frequency before going higher.

At 112MHz fsb it is stable. Oddly, at 100MHz it isnt.

The fun I have with this stuff is just seeing if I can push it. The easiest approach would be to buy a P3 133MHz capable socket 370 board. But then I'd want to see how far that could go...

V4P895P3 VLB Motherboard and AMD 486 133MHz CPU
64mb RAM, CF 4Gb HDD,
Realtek 8019 ethernet + XT-IDE bios ROM, ES1869 soundcard, VLB multi-io card Cirrus Logic GD5428 1mb VGA

440bx MSI 6119, modified slocket , celeron 1.1GHz, 256mb SD-RAM, CF 4GB HDD

Reply 26 of 48, by AlexZ

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squelch41 wrote on 2021-11-13, 10:34:

At 112MHz fsb it is stable. Oddly, at 100MHz it isnt.

The fun I have with this stuff is just seeing if I can push it. The easiest approach would be to buy a P3 133MHz capable socket 370 board. But then I'd want to see how far that could go...

Something is definitely wrong with that board then. All my four 440BX boards work fine at officially supported frequencies. I've got a few of them as it's good to have a spare. It helps greatly with troubleshooting issues like you're facing. I could easily swap the board and see if it solves the issue. When I was shopping for them I actually wanted at least one VIA 494X, but got always outbid.

PIII 133FSB capable boards are either late 440BX like my Asus CUBX or VIA 494X. If it isn't supported officially I would assume it isn't 100% stable.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 256MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 27 of 48, by PARKE

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Before blaming the motherboard it may be an idea to try a more reputable slotket than the two that were used up to now.
Intel published a list with slotkets that passed and did not pass their voltage requirements testing in 2000 (see attached).
The "A" slotket in this thread is a PPGA Celeron dedicated slotket that has been "modified" for this job and the "B"slotket is also "modified' and a PCChips product that did not pass the above mentioned Intel test.

Filename
IntelSSA.doc
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Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 28 of 48, by squelch41

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PARKE wrote on 2021-11-13, 18:06:
Before blaming the motherboard it may be an idea to try a more reputable slotket than the two that were used up to now. Intel p […]
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Before blaming the motherboard it may be an idea to try a more reputable slotket than the two that were used up to now.
Intel published a list with slotkets that passed and did not pass their voltage requirements testing in 2000 (see attached).
The "A" slotket in this thread is a PPGA Celeron dedicated slotket that has been "modified" for this job and the "B"slotket is also "modified' and a PCChips product that did not pass the above mentioned Intel test.
IntelSSA.doc

That doc is really helpful - thanks
The trouble I have is identifying 'good' slockets - most on ebay are of unknown brand and googling the pcb markings for me has always yielded little.
Is there a resource for identifying them anywhere?

I think you're right on it being the slockets that are the problem as the board is fine with a proper p3 450 as described earlier.

V4P895P3 VLB Motherboard and AMD 486 133MHz CPU
64mb RAM, CF 4Gb HDD,
Realtek 8019 ethernet + XT-IDE bios ROM, ES1869 soundcard, VLB multi-io card Cirrus Logic GD5428 1mb VGA

440bx MSI 6119, modified slocket , celeron 1.1GHz, 256mb SD-RAM, CF 4GB HDD

Reply 29 of 48, by AlexZ

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Those brand name slotkets which passed Intel's test are going to be pricey though. I have 11 slotkets in total and not a single brand name. Not all budget slotkets are listed in that document.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 256MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 30 of 48, by PARKE

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squelch41 wrote on 2021-11-13, 18:29:

The trouble I have is identifying 'good' slockets - most on ebay are of unknown brand and googling the pcb markings for me has always yielded little.
Is there a resource for identifying them anywhere?

Member Luckybob has made available my compilation of slotket info via this link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kGgO3TJyFDTH … y4wVj4GJBY/view
Look for 'FCPGA' slotkets.

Reply 31 of 48, by PARKE

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AlexZ wrote on 2021-11-13, 20:16:

Those brand name slotkets which passed Intel's test are going to be pricey though. I have 11 slotkets in total and not a single brand name. Not all budget slotkets are listed in that document.

All slotkets seem to have become pricey lately - some of the most ordinary Mendocino slotkets are Ebay listed with asking prices of between 15 and 50 dollars and I would hesitate to pay even 5 for any of them.
You are sitting on a goldmine with your 11 😀.
The Intel list is not complete but the better known names are in there and as a first guide it is useful.

Reply 32 of 48, by BitWrangler

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Dang I need to pull my finger out my ass and figure out what two or three of my half dozen I'm keeping then. Think the score is one Shuttle, two MSI, two startech and one generic. Though I've also got a 440ZX system up a corner, if it don't have a slotketted PIII in I'm not sure what's in it.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 33 of 48, by AlexZ

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PARKE wrote on 2021-11-14, 02:41:

All slotkets seem to have become pricey lately - some of the most ordinary Mendocino slotkets are Ebay listed with asking prices of between 15 and 50 dollars and I would hesitate to pay even 5 for any of them.
You are sitting on a goldmine with your 11 😀.
The Intel list is not complete but the better known names are in there and as a first guide it is useful.

I paid $10 for one (PPGA/FCPGA) and then found 10 being sold for the price of one ($10 again) so I scooped it. Two of them are not working and will requite repair. More than half are PPGA only, but I also bought PPGA Celerons which can clock up to 500-600Mhz at 100Mhz FSB making them the fastest PII. One day they will be sold in a package slotket + CPU. There are many boards out there that don't support PIII and PPGA Celerons are the fastest CPUs for them.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 256MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 34 of 48, by squelch41

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PARKE wrote on 2021-11-14, 01:33:
Member Luckybob has made available my compilation of slotket info via this link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kGgO3TJyFDTH … […]
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squelch41 wrote on 2021-11-13, 18:29:

The trouble I have is identifying 'good' slockets - most on ebay are of unknown brand and googling the pcb markings for me has always yielded little.
Is there a resource for identifying them anywhere?

Member Luckybob has made available my compilation of slotket info via this link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kGgO3TJyFDTH … y4wVj4GJBY/view
Look for 'FCPGA' slotkets.

Wow! Wish I'd known about this!
Thanks!

V4P895P3 VLB Motherboard and AMD 486 133MHz CPU
64mb RAM, CF 4Gb HDD,
Realtek 8019 ethernet + XT-IDE bios ROM, ES1869 soundcard, VLB multi-io card Cirrus Logic GD5428 1mb VGA

440bx MSI 6119, modified slocket , celeron 1.1GHz, 256mb SD-RAM, CF 4GB HDD

Reply 35 of 48, by frudi

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There used to be a German seller on ebay selling new old stock MSI MS-6905 Master slotkets, still in original packaging, for really good prices. I remember ordering a pack of 10 for like 50 or 60 € a year or two ago. I've seen him being mentioned in previous discussions on this board as well. I tried looking them up again now, but couldn't find any listing for MS-6905s any more. Seems he must have finally ran out. I'm half convinced he was solely responsible for keeping slotket prices on ebay relatively normal for a long time.

PARKE wrote on 2021-11-14, 01:33:

Member Luckybob has made available my compilation of slotket info via this link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kGgO3TJyFDTH … y4wVj4GJBY/view
Look for 'FCPGA' slotkets.

Oh, this will come in super handy, thank you. I have a bunch of various no-name slotkets that I got along with motherboards, most are probably just PPGA since they came with various Mendocino celerons. More often than not they also have zero markings on the pcb about any available jumper settings. That is if there's even any jumpers present. With this compilation I can maybe finally identify some of them and figure out what they support.

Reply 36 of 48, by AlexZ

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I think higher slotket prices are not a major problem as long as the seller describes exactly what kind of CPUs are supported and does stability testing to ensure you will get a working hardware. There are too many unscrupulous sellers who sell untested items for high price without any warranty.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 256MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 37 of 48, by PARKE

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frudi wrote on 2021-11-14, 10:22:

Oh, this will come in super handy, thank you. I have a bunch of various no-name slotkets that I got along with motherboards, most are probably just PPGA since they came with various Mendocino celerons. More often than not they also have zero markings on the pcb about any available jumper settings. That is if there's even any jumpers present. With this compilation I can maybe finally identify some of them and figure out what they support.

@frudi
Oh, that's nice. If you run into one or more that do not occur in the file you could do me a favour with posting high res photos of front and rear. I have more loose info on some brands and may be able to help out with some jumper settings.
There is a newer version of the file with 3 or 4 new additions and some corrections on text content. Maybe there should be a dedicated thread for slotket info.

AlexZ wrote on 2021-11-14, 11:11:

I think higher slotket prices are not a major problem as long as the seller describes exactly what kind of CPUs are supported and does stability testing to ensure you will get a working hardware. There are too many unscrupulous sellers who sell untested items for high price without any warranty.

@AlexZ
Many prices are ridiculous imo. Last week I spotted an AA370P for $117. What is the point of spending money on just a slotket when you can buy an entire motherboard for a tiny bit more ?

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-11-15, 23:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 38 of 48, by AlexZ

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PARKE wrote on 2021-11-14, 12:31:

@AlexZ
Many prices are ridiculous imo. Last week I spotted an AA370P for $117. What is the point of spending money on just a slotket when you can buy an entire motherboard for a tiny bit more ?

Ordinary slotket is definitely not worth it. The price cap of slotkets is price of socket 370 motherboards. However very soon those will be in short supply as well, driving prices up. There are many slot 1 boards out there and fast PIII slot 1 CPUs are extremely rare. Grab them cheap if you still can.

There are two scenarios when slotket will be pricey:

  • supports voltage control - as many old boards do not support it
  • sold in pack with a good CPU - PPGA Celeron capable of 500-600Mhz at 100Mhz FSB or FCPGA Celeron/PIII capable of 900-1000Mhz at 100/133Mhz FSB.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 256MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 39 of 48, by BitWrangler

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AlexZ wrote on 2021-11-14, 14:09:
PARKE wrote on 2021-11-14, 12:31:

What is the point of spending money on just a slotket when you can buy an entire motherboard for a tiny bit more ?

Ordinary slotket is definitely not worth it. The price cap of slotkets is price of socket 370 motherboards.

Well there's the BX fever to account for, all the cycles taste better when BX flavored or something, with notes of plum and chocolate. Meaning 440BX boards need slotkets, and nobody will care if 370 boards are cheaper and in some cases faster, they just need a slotket to run on a BX.... because obviously the best all round system is 2% faster in quake and 10% slower on everything else.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.