VOGONS


Reply 341 of 352, by BitWrangler

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I was thinking that if someone didn't tell me that Doom on the ZX spectrum was Doom on a ZX Spectrum, I might have guessed at it being a bad CGA conversion of Wolf3D on a 5150

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 342 of 352, by appiah4

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-11-24, 07:07:

Doom on those kind of platforms is not Doom at all anymore.

I don't know, I really don't feel the Doom experience is as much about graphics as it is about the tight gameplay. I know a lot of people would have really appreciated the graphics modes of FastDoom back in the day for sure..

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 344 of 352, by appiah4

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-11-25, 10:13:

I was talking about gameplay / fun factor, it isn't there at all on the ZX Spectrum, Nintedo Game and Watch, calculators, and other vastly underpowered platforms.

To be fair (most of) those are not Doom ports..

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 345 of 352, by trixster

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now that kixs has shown me how to enable 0ws on my ISA Mach64 I have tried mode Y FDoom again instead of using FDoom13H.

Wow, big speed improvement! Previously I was getting 13.344 fps for demo3, now I'm getting 15.013!

I guess the Mach64 likes using mode Y with 0ws, as previously it was slightly slower with mode Y than with 13h.

@ViTi95 much earlier in the thread you mentioned that sound caused slowdowns due to caching issues. Have you managed to look at this again? It would be cool for sound to not cause a 1-2fps decrease in speed on slow systems!

Reply 346 of 352, by ishadow

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I've tested various modes on my 386SX 25 MHz PC with Cirrus Logic 5402 SVGA ISA graphics.
With FDOOM. EXE (mode Y) as 100%, I've got such results:

FDOOM13H.EXE - 105.19%
FDOOMVBR.EXE - 104.96%
FDOOMVBD.EXE - 107.88% - although image was flickering.
FDOOMVBP.EXE - it crashed.

13H was the fastest one on Cirrus Logic 5402.

I've also did other tests based on the fastest DOOM13H. 100% is the value of test done on XMS only + latest VGA BIOS loaded via TSR for my card.

96.13% - on a 13H mode with stock BIOS of the CL 5402.
96.13% - on a latest VGA BIOS but with EMM386.EXE loaded.
120.33% - fast possible DOS config and with sounds disable. This is massive improvement! FPS jump from 21 to 25.

Reply 347 of 352, by rmay635703

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2021-11-24, 07:07:

Doom on those kind of platforms is not Doom at all anymore.

game and Watch still uses wads, just removes the textures out so it fits in the very limited ram, lag and FPS isn’t bad compared to systems in use at the time of dooms release.

Reply 348 of 352, by ViTi95

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ishadow wrote on 2021-11-26, 14:41:
I've tested various modes on my 386SX 25 MHz PC with Cirrus Logic 5402 SVGA ISA graphics. With FDOOM. EXE (mode Y) as 100%, I've […]
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I've tested various modes on my 386SX 25 MHz PC with Cirrus Logic 5402 SVGA ISA graphics.
With FDOOM. EXE (mode Y) as 100%, I've got such results:

FDOOM13H.EXE - 105.19%
FDOOMVBR.EXE - 104.96%
FDOOMVBD.EXE - 107.88% - although image was flickering.
FDOOMVBP.EXE - it crashed.

13H was the fastest one on Cirrus Logic 5402.

I've also did other tests based on the fastest DOOM13H. 100% is the value of test done on XMS only + latest VGA BIOS loaded via TSR for my card.

96.13% - on a 13H mode with stock BIOS of the CL 5402.
96.13% - on a latest VGA BIOS but with EMM386.EXE loaded.
120.33% - fast possible DOS config and with sounds disable. This is massive improvement! FPS jump from 21 to 25.

FDOOMVBD requires a Linear Frame Buffer, which almost 100% ISA cards doesn't provide, that's why it flickers. You need a VLB, PCI or AGP card for this mode to work correctly. FDOOMVBP uses Protected Mode extensions, lot's of video cards don't implement these functions, and UNIVBE directly crashes with this mode (don't know exactly why). Only some modern VESA 2.0/3.0 video cards support it correctly.

trixster wrote on 2021-11-25, 10:31:
now that kixs has shown me how to enable 0ws on my ISA Mach64 I have tried mode Y FDoom again instead of using FDoom13H. […]
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now that kixs has shown me how to enable 0ws on my ISA Mach64 I have tried mode Y FDoom again instead of using FDoom13H.

Wow, big speed improvement! Previously I was getting 13.344 fps for demo3, now I'm getting 15.013!

I guess the Mach64 likes using mode Y with 0ws, as previously it was slightly slower with mode Y than with 13h.

@ViTi95 much earlier in the thread you mentioned that sound caused slowdowns due to caching issues. Have you managed to look at this again? It would be cool for sound to not cause a 1-2fps decrease in speed on slow systems!

The sound code was reworked, now it doesn't trash the sound cache every X seconds. This way it forces the used sound data to stay in memory, avoiding those hiccups. But the first time a sound is used there is a little decrease, since it has to load the sound.

Reply 350 of 352, by ishadow

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rasz_pl wrote on 2021-11-26, 23:58:

wait, 20 fps on SX 25MHz? is that in post stamp sized window?

I don't remember exact settings, but I've chosen rather small window, so the tests didn't take too long. FPS was irrelevant anyway since I was curious about difference in performance for various modes.

Also Fast DOOM makes the biggest difference on 386SX machines. These CPUs could run DOOM, but it was barely playable. Now you can get 15+ FPS with potato mode at quite large window.

For comparison, my 386SX scored 10.179 FPS in demo1 from Ultimate DOOM at full screen with status bar in potato mode without sound, but with floor textures enabled.
With smallest window and everything set to low or disabled it scored 29.147.
Original DOOM gets 12 FPS in smallest window, low detail and no sound.

You can see that Fast DOOM makes a huge difference for 386 SX. It gives a lot of options. You can play at a window reduced by few steps at 1x1 pixels if you disable floor textures. You play with all the details in potato mode and you can even play at 20+ fps with window that is still significantly larger than post stamp.

Reply 352 of 352, by ishadow

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rasz_pl wrote on Yesterday, 02:25:

By shrinking rendered window you move around what part of codebase is actually stressed and % you post are non comparable to anything else, unless also measured at same settings and window size.

Every % test was done in same settings. I've chosen smaller window, because timedemo draws every frame and full screen tests would take 10+ minutes on 386SX machine.