VOGONS


Reply 40 of 62, by RayeR

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Thanks for effort, thankfully my vision is still sharp enough to see this pins w/o mag. lens 😀

Now we have important OE and CAS signals that are grouped by 2 chips for 64b data bus width, but I'm missing the RAS. I belive it should have 2 separate pins as CAS has. You probably missed it but try also J4-D30 and J4-D29 that are RAS of onboard chips.

I wonder a bit about J4 A23 that is connected with B30 on the card but not on module, maybe used on 12MB version.

Also I need to figure data bus mapping so please check at least J4-A12 (DQ0) and J4-C3(DQ0) which goes to what chips (pin 5 on mem.chip)
and similar for J4-D21,C21,A21,D20 (BE0-3) and J4-B23,C22,B22,A22 (BE0-3) which goes to what chips (pins 119, 98, 120, 97 on mem. chip)

Also not clear about SQ0-15 lines that each onboard chip have them separate but I guess it would be also separately connected to 4 mem chips. on module, so please check at least J2-C25(SQ0), J2-C19(SQ0), J2-D13(SQ0), J2-D4(SQ0) which goes to what chips (pin 32 on mem. chip). This pins seems to have 33ohm resistors in series so be sure your DMM beeps at this resistance yet.

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Reply 41 of 62, by RayeR

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One of my friends found a 4MB expansion module and was so kind to send it to me so I will be able to beep all necessary connection myself so I hope the schematic will be completed soon 😀
Anyway thanks for effort!

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Reply 42 of 62, by Dusko

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That's great news! I was going to look into it during the weekend. Share some pics once you have it all together! It's a cool project!. You should keep an eye on ebay, you may find one near you at some point.

Reply 43 of 62, by RayeR

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I sometimes checked ebay for years but didn't have a luck. In our country it was pretty expansive professional card that was not much common used so there was even much less memory modules. All cards I saw offered on local secondhand servers was without module.

Today I received the package with friend's Mill2. It's 8MB version with 4MB module as you have. I plug it in my BX133 raid and play with it for a while. At 1st I wondered that my VESATEST detected only 4MB LFB. So I updated video BIOS from 1.1 to latest 1.5 and then got reported 12MB LFB but still there was only few truecolor modes and 1600x1200 only in 16bpp. I tried also load UNIVBE 6.7 and it increased number of VESA modes from 24 to 33 while added the highest truecolor mode 1280x1024/32 - I'm still missing 1600x1200/32 (142h). I know that this higher truecolor modes was not fully standardized by VESA but I hoped at least UNIVBE would help, a bit disappointed. This mode should be available at least in Windows and DOS CAD programs that have native MGA drivers (like Vibrant for 3D Studio).

I also bought that AGP Mill2 as a donor of memory chips. I tested it and it works fine. Due to AGP it has better LFB throughput - 180 MB/s but there are better cards to be plugged in AGP...

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Reply 44 of 62, by RayeR

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I have finished the schematic. RAS# signal is common for all 4 chips on the module and chips A7, A8 on board
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/retropc1.htm#MGAMEMRE

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Reply 45 of 62, by RayeR

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Routing in progress...

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Reply 46 of 62, by RayeR

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Routing is done.
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/retropc1/mempcb1.png
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/retropc1/mempcb2.png
I just have to finish some other small PCBs and I will send it to JLCPCB manufacturer...

UPDATE: PCBs are manufacturing.

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Reply 47 of 62, by RayeR

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PCBs arrived today. I assembled one and tested but didn't work. I found that I made a stupid copy&paste error in schematics that I swapped order of SQ0-15 pins on all memory chips. This would require manually reroute 64 connections. I will have to make new PCB revision and try again...

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Reply 48 of 62, by Tetrium

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RayeR wrote on 2021-03-20, 02:25:

PCBs arrived today. I assembled one and tested but didn't work. I found that I made a stupid copy&paste error in schematics that I swapped order of SQ0-15 pins on all memory chips. This would require manually reroute 64 connections. I will have to make new PCB revision and try again...

That's really unfortunate 😒
But still amazing how you're managing to pull this one off, bravo =)

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Reply 49 of 62, by RayeR

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Sigh, a hard life of HW designer, not easy to fix like a line of code...
I already rerouted the PCB design and hope didn't miss anything else.
http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/retropc1/memsch.png (BEx also fixed)
Now it waits for I finish other PCB designs to fill the next JLC batch...

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Reply 50 of 62, by RayeR

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In meantime I was lucky to buy an 8MB version of MGA II PCI from a scrap man just for 2e so primary reason for making memory expansion board disappeared but when it's almost done I'll keep going to finish it anyway.
I also bought another 4MB AGP MGA II so I have 8 spare WRAM chips now...

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Reply 51 of 62, by RayeR

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I tested my 8MB MGA II under Windows NT4 and XP, installed the latest Matrox drivers but I'm unable to select videomode 1600x1200/24bpp. Only 1600x1200/16bpp or 1280x1024/24bpp are available. When I display all available modes I cannot see desired mode in the list - why? The WRAM size of 8MB is reported correctly.
But under Windows 3.1 when installed Matrox driver I can select and use 1600x1200/24bpp mode so the card can do it and of course the FB fits into 8MB so I'm confused why WinNT/2k/XP doesn't have it available. Please can somebody else try it on his card?

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Reply 52 of 62, by RayeR

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I made it!
I had sent a next batch of PCB designs to China and received the PCBs. I just assembled one MGA 4MB WRAM module ver 1.1 and finally it works. I have 4 blank PCBs left.
Unfortunatelly I'm still unable to set 1600x1200/truecolor mode. I revealed some extended monitor settings in Matrox control pannel where I could configure higher modes like 1600x1024/32bpp and very obscure 1920x1034 /32bpp that definitely utilize 8MB but 1600x1200 mode was there only in 8 and 16bpp options. I need to try some registry hacking - thread: What is minimum VRAM size for 1600x1200 mode in truecolor under WinNT/2k/XP?

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Reply 53 of 62, by Babasha

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RayeR wrote on 2021-01-24, 16:19:
Hi, I started with reverse-engineering of memory chips wiring on Millennium II. I identified almost 92% of all pins and have som […]
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Hi, I started with reverse-engineering of memory chips wiring on Millennium II. I identified almost 92% of all pins and have some idea how it works. But I need to track the rest of pins to be able to make replica of memory module. I need someone who has the module and multimeter, with some electrical skills and be kind to help.

Here's my partial result:
http://rayer.g6.cz/1tmp/MGA1.png
http://rayer.g6.cz/1tmp/MGA2.png
My numbering of connectors:
http://rayer.g6.cz/1tmp/MGA3.jpg

Hi!
Can you assist me with Matrox Mystique memory module repair. I have two Matrox Mystique videocards. One integrated to Fujitsu D990 motherboard with 2Mb on board, second is usual Matrox Mystique PCI with 2Mb. Last card arrived with additional 2Mb memory module (c) Transcend, looks like it paired with card from factory? When memory module connected to any of my videocards it shows 4Mb videomemory in DOS SST utility VESA, and only 2Mb in Windows 98?! Looks like dumb DOS test ignores some parameters or pin while Windows driver check this parameter or pin status. Maybe you have any idea or experience, should clean/isolate/terminate 😀 pin or something in hardware or software to manually “fool” videocard so it “find” memory module?

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware! 😉

Reply 54 of 62, by RayeR

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Hi, I don't have experiance with Matrox Mystique cards but I think the memory module should be similar to Millennium module. So there is not any extra pin that would identify presence or memory size of the module. The memory size is probed automatically at boot by videobios. Did you try to run VMT - VideoMemory Test for DOS if it recognize expected size and if there are no any errors? Maybe some pin of memory chip on your module has broken contact with PCB and would need to be resoldered...

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Reply 55 of 62, by Babasha

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RayeR wrote on 2021-12-31, 00:33:

Hi, I don't have experiance with Matrox Mystique cards but I think the memory module should be similar to Millennium module. So there is not any extra pin that would identify presence or memory size of the module. The memory size is probed automatically at boot by videobios. Did you try to run VMT - VideoMemory Test for DOS if it recognize expected size and if there are no any errors? Maybe some pin of memory chip on your module has broken contact with PCB and would need to be resoldered...

Thx! Will try to clean contacts and test it with VMT. All contacts are visually in good condition and no bad soldering on board, but i check it once more.

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware! 😉

Reply 56 of 62, by RayeR

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Babasha wrote on 2021-12-31, 00:52:

Thx! Will try to clean contacts and test it with VMT. All contacts are visually in good condition and no bad soldering on board, but i check it once more.

I didn't mean contacts of the pin header connector but contacts between memory chip pins and PCB. It may not be visible there's a cracked solder joint but I had seen such error on one card...

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Reply 57 of 62, by RayeR

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I made a registry hack to enable 1600x1200/32bpp mode 😀
Re: What is minimum VRAM size for 1600x1200 mode in truecolor under WinNT/2k/XP?

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Reply 58 of 62, by Doornkaat

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Swiego wrote on 2020-06-06, 19:27:
I’m not sure why I enjoy this so, but in my ongoing journey to know and love the Millennium, I have finally found the 12MB WRAM […]
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I’m not sure why I enjoy this so, but in my ongoing journey to know and love the Millennium, I have finally found the 12MB WRAM module! It’s Compaq branded, cool and largely useless. I love it!

Incidentally in searching for it I found that there were Compaq and HP kits as well as the kit direct from Matrox and they all have different part numbers and varying availability depending on where in the world you are.

Here is the box, a Millennium II with the upgrade installed, and the 4MB upgrade for comparison.

F978C43F-E23A-4EC6-9D30-90B63F773CB4.jpeg

So the key findings:
1. It’s cool
2. When connected to a 4Mb card, there is indeed 16MB seen by Matrox utility in Windows 98. As expected, there is no resolution/color depth advantage nor performance advantage (Winstone/Winbench in W98Se and DOS) that I could discern when compared to the 12MB configuration.
3. I had a 8MB card and thought... what happens if I add the 12MB WRAM to it?! 20MB?! Well for the zero people who’ve always wondered about this... The card works fine, Matrox reports 16MB (aww) and there again is no performance difference vs the “sanctioned” 16MB configuration.

I’m not sure where I go from here, but I’m gonna continue living the 1920x1200x24bpp dream on a card that incidentally works perfectly on a 486.

I think I have a 4MB card with 12MB RAM extension board. Is this something of interest to a collector? Or is it something I could use for gaming better than an 8MB card without memory extension? I never really got into Matrox cards so to me this was basically the same as any other PCI Matrox.

Reply 59 of 62, by RayeR

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Matrox Millennium cards are not meant for gaming (weak 3D without texturing) they are for proffesional work. I appreciate drivers for 3D Studio, AutoCAD, Microstation...

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