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Reply 300 of 384, by Kappa971

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Well, then I don't have to do any testing, and anyone who reads "Far Cry 64 bit" in Alchemy in the future knows that it doesn't actually work and will never work (Creative should remove it from the list), for the simple fact that Far Cry 64 bit doesn't have EAX.

Reply 301 of 384, by Kappa971

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I tested Far Cry (32 bit) with DSOAL, positional audio seems to work and I notice better sound than Alchemy, more details (and I notice it even though I don't use headphones but 2.1 speakers) but there is a problem: The reverb effect is absent. For example in Level 2 Carrier, with Alchemy you can hear some reverb, with DSOAL it is completely absent (I also tried to set "boost = +12"). I have the same problem in Serious Sam TFE/TSE (seen here in the Karnak level of First Encounter) so it's not limited to Far Cry only. I opened a issue in the DSOAL GitHub repository: https://github.com/kcat/dsoal/issues/33

EDIT
Alchemy is no longer officially supported by Creative in Windows 11 (and its problems will never be solved), well... I hope DSOAL solves the latest problems at this point, so I definitely uninstall Alchemy.

Reply 303 of 384, by Kappa971

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Thanks I'll try. With other games the reverb works so it could be a problem for some, I don't know... maybe you could test if, with these two games, you too have no reverb.

EDIT
The solution suggested, in Serious Sam doesn't work. In Far Cry it seems like that option just applies reverb to everything, even the intro so it's not the right solution. There must be something wrong with DSOAL in these games.

EDIT2
Earlier I wrote that in Far Cry the audio with DSOAL was better than in Alchemy (although there is no reverb). Now comparing it to audio without any wrappers, it sounds the same as DSOAL, I can't hear any difference, and the "Hardware mixing" and "EAX 2.0" options can be activated without a wrapper (in all other games, including Serious Sam, without DSOAL or Alchemy, EAX is grayed out). DSOAL is loaded by the game, but it appears to be doing nothing. I want to specify that with other games, the difference between EAX on and off is noticeable.

Reply 305 of 384, by Kappa971

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I opened an issue here where the log files are available: https://github.com/kcat/dsoal/issues/33

I state that I'm using the 32-bit version, there is conflicting information on Far Cry ... Some say EAX 2.0 supports, some old sites indicate EAX Advanced HD support (it is not known if EAX 3 or 4). What I can say is:
1. the "Hardware mixing" and "EAX 2.0" options in the game menu can also be activated without any DirectSound wrapper
2. Creative Alchemy seems to add only reverb. With DSOAL you lose the reverb effect that I don't know if it was present with the Audigy/X-Fi cards, unfortunately I didn't find any video about it on YouTube.

As far as I'm concerned, apart from the reverb with alchemy, this game doesn't use any EAX effects, without wrappers it sounds exactly the same (and I would say it sounds good too).

Reply 306 of 384, by mirh

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https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Far_Cry#Audio
Creative itself was advertising it with EAX AHD support. They don't mention anything other than reverb and good positional audio though.
Also take not there seems to be some extra steps to get dsoal right.

EDIT: the only sample I could find.

Last edited by mirh on 2022-04-06, 21:08. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 308 of 384, by Kappa971

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DSOAL works in other games. In Far Cry and Serious Sam, however, the reverb effect is completely missing. I guess in Far Cry, no EAX effects are used other than those described by mirh.

EDIT
I have a Sound Blaster Z and I had Alchemy installed previously, so I didn't have to follow any guide. DSOAL is loaded by Far Cry, it creates the log file then I guess it works fine.

EDIT2
I believe that, at least with this game, I will be using Alchemy. I don't notice any effects or differences with DSOAL.

Reply 309 of 384, by jonpol

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Kappa971 wrote on 2021-12-20, 08:34:

DSOAL works in other games. In Far Cry and Serious Sam, however, the reverb effect is completely missing. I guess in Far Cry, no EAX effects are used other than those described by mirh.

EDIT2
I believe that, at least with this game, I will be using Alchemy. I don't notice any effects or differences with DSOAL.

I ran across this post and was curious so I did a bit of testing. I installed the Steam version of Far Cry on my Windows 10 machine because I didn't have the motivation to go find my Far Cry discs and install on my Windows XP machine, but I used IndirectSound to see if EAX was being used.

  • Far Cry is definitely testing for EAX and using it (it tests for EAX 3 support first, but IndirectSound doesn't claim to support that, so it then uses EAX 2).
  • In the menus it intentionally turns the volume completely off for all of the EAX effects.
  • In the very room after starting a new game it intentionally sets EAX effects different from what it does in the menu, so some programmer is "using" EAX.
  • With that being said, though, you are correct Kappa971 that the volume is used is so quiet you can't really hear anything.
  • (Also, curious/amusing sidenote: The "room" type chosen is "psychotic", which has really crazy reverb. The room type is just a way to set defaults and everything can still be tweaked, but it's strange that someone chose a default that you would never use except for maybe a dream sequence or something.)

This is a sample size of one room, but it doesn't contradict your suspicions that there maybe isn't supposed to be any audible reverb.

Reply 311 of 384, by Kappa971

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jonpol wrote on 2021-12-26, 04:11:
I ran across this post and was curious so I did a bit of testing. I installed the Steam version of Far Cry on my Windows 10 mach […]
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I ran across this post and was curious so I did a bit of testing. I installed the Steam version of Far Cry on my Windows 10 machine because I didn't have the motivation to go find my Far Cry discs and install on my Windows XP machine, but I used IndirectSound to see if EAX was being used.

  • Far Cry is definitely testing for EAX and using it (it tests for EAX 3 support first, but IndirectSound doesn't claim to support that, so it then uses EAX 2).
  • In the menus it intentionally turns the volume completely off for all of the EAX effects.
  • In the very room after starting a new game it intentionally sets EAX effects different from what it does in the menu, so some programmer is "using" EAX.
  • With that being said, though, you are correct Kappa971 that the volume is used is so quiet you can't really hear anything.
  • (Also, curious/amusing sidenote: The "room" type chosen is "psychotic", which has really crazy reverb. The room type is just a way to set defaults and everything can still be tweaked, but it's strange that someone chose a default that you would never use except for maybe a dream sequence or something.)

This is a sample size of one room, but it doesn't contradict your suspicions that there maybe isn't supposed to be any audible reverb.

Interesting... However the fact remains that the reverb effect you hear in Level 2 Carrier with ALchemy (Sound Blaster Z), with DSOAL is missing completely (I also tried to set boost = +12). ALchemy (on sound cards with EAX in software) is not accurate in reverb level, but it should be accurate to see where it should be present.
Could you try it on your Windows XP machine (if you have an old Sound Blaster on that PC)? Serious Sam TFE's Karnak level is also a good test.

EDIT
This is the Far Cry log file with DSOAL, there doesn't seem to be anything regarding EAX

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    dsoal_log.txt
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Reply 312 of 384, by Kappa971

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Far Cry works weird, it allows you to select "Hardware mixing" and "EAX 2.0" even without EAX compatible hardware, but EAX doesn't work. This probably makes many people think that DSOAL is working but it isn't. In the log file, there is no reference to EAX (in other games it is present).
I have used ProcessExplorer to see if DSOAL's dsound.dll was loading, it loads but apparently does nothing. Using the same program, I checked what happens differently with ALchemy: in addition to the ALchemy dsound.dll, the Windows one present in C:\Windows\SysWOW64 and a dsound.dll.mui file are also loaded (Screenshots attached) .

This is beyond my knowledge.

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  • ALchemy_FarCry.png
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Reply 315 of 384, by RetroGamer4Ever

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Test the CryEngine Sandbox Editor and see if that somehow works. If that doesn't work, then it must be that the EAX calls are implemented by the CryTek engine in a different way that doesn't work as other games do.

Reply 316 of 384, by God Of Gaming

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Serious Sam EAX certainly worked in at least one version of DSOAL I tested a while ago. Compared against an Audigy, it sounded identical. I don't know if newer versions break compatibility or anything, I don't really use DSOAL since I have real hardware

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Reply 317 of 384, by Kappa971

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God Of Gaming wrote on 2021-12-26, 17:48:

Serious Sam EAX certainly worked in at least one version of DSOAL I tested a while ago. Compared against an Audigy, it sounded identical. I don't know if newer versions break compatibility or anything, I don't really use DSOAL since I have real hardware

Is there reverb in this level on the Sound Blaster Audigy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wShr1XqP6o

Reply 318 of 384, by Kappa971

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RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2021-12-26, 17:33:

Test the CryEngine Sandbox Editor and see if that somehow works. If that doesn't work, then it must be that the EAX calls are implemented by the CryTek engine in a different way that doesn't work as other games do.

I have no idea how this works.

Reply 319 of 384, by RetroGamer4Ever

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Kappa971 wrote on 2021-12-26, 18:22:
RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2021-12-26, 17:33:

Test the CryEngine Sandbox Editor and see if that somehow works. If that doesn't work, then it must be that the EAX calls are implemented by the CryTek engine in a different way that doesn't work as other games do.

I have no idea how this works.

It's the game map editor for the engine used in FarCry. You can load the maps and test out things, including audio sound effect placement and pretty much everything else.