konc wrote on 2021-12-31, 16:17:

So the demos of both Fifa & NHL 99 had SGL support but it was removed in the release?

FIFA 99 installs powervra.dll, ragea.dll and veritea.dll. Rage and Verite are forced to d3d in 3ddata.dat. PowerVR isn't. IMHO -- FIFA 99 can be named as SGL compatible.
NHL 99 has powervra.dll, ragea.dll and veritea.dll too. Verite is forced to d3d, Rage isn't affected (this game can use the CIF API). PowerVR isn't listed in 3ddata.dat so this API isn't available. But there is the POWERVR_D3D=0 string...
To force the SGL API -- use "Group"="NEC" and "Thrash Driver"="powervr". Or add the "CARD_PowerVR" string in 3ddata.dat...

Gamecollector wrote on 2021-12-31, 22:54:

FIFA 99 installs powervra.dll, ragea.dll and veritea.dll. Rage and Verite are forced to d3d in 3ddata.dat. PowerVR isn't. IMHO - […]
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konc wrote on 2021-12-31, 16:17:

So the demos of both Fifa & NHL 99 had SGL support but it was removed in the release?

FIFA 99 installs powervra.dll, ragea.dll and veritea.dll. Rage and Verite are forced to d3d in 3ddata.dat. PowerVR isn't. IMHO -- FIFA 99 can be named as GGL compatible.
NHL 99 has powervra.dll, ragea.dll and veritea.dll too. Verite is forced to d3d, Rage isn't affected (this game can use the CIF API). PowerVR isn't listed in 3ddata.dat so this API isn't available. But there is the POWERVR_D3D=0 string...
To force the SGL API -- use "Group"="NEC" and "Thrash Driver"="powervr". Or add the "CARD_PowerVR" string in 3ddata.dat...

What group is for Ati Rage? ATI or Rage, or maybe something other?

CARD_Ati Rage Pro -- group "ATI", module "rage".
CARD_Rendition V2100/2200 -- "Rendition" + "verite".

P.S. The info is stored in the "HKLM\Software\Electronic Arts\3D Data" registry node by 3ddata.exe. All EASetup 1.x games share this node so there are bugs as the result sometimes (World Cup 98 as the example)...

Gamecollector wrote on 2021-12-31, 22:54:

Verite is forced to d3d, Rage isn't affected (this game can use the CIF API).

I have tested Ati 3D CIF and looks OK.

It uses ati3dcif.dll because if I rename/remove it, the game falls back to software mode (but if I move the D3D files, the game still in 3D).

Gona wrote on 2021-05-13, 15:34:

All of the patches I have here: https://gona.mactar.hu/3D/files/ […]
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All of the patches I have here:
https://gona.mactar.hu/3D/files/

But I have no pictures at all. I have attached what I have.
If you send me the pictures too, I will upload them and all links you can replace to "https://gona.mactar.hu/3D/files/XYZ".

I have finished with the overview table/patch download page:
https://gona.mactar.hu/3D/

NHL99 - test it with Win98:

- standard Win98 driver ATI Rage Pro (atir3) - works with ATI CIF
- updated driver ATI XPERT@PLAY 5.40.1 (most compatible ATI CIF driver) - works with ATI CIF

ATI CIF quality and speed are better than D3D (sorting, reflections, transparency)

More "EA 1998" games:
NBA Live 99: software/d3d/glide. Installs ragea.dll. 3ddata.dat: Verite and Rage are forced to d3d, PowerVR is disabled. Another ATI CIF candidate.
Tiger Woods 99 PGA Tour Golf: d3d/glide. Not installs powervra.dll/ragea.dll/veritea.dll. 3dsetup is coded as a part of the main.exe. Cards.txt: Rage is forced to d3d, PowerVR is disabled. Verite is marked as untested, I not sure about the result...
Triple Play 99: software/glide. Not installs powervra.dll/ragea.dll/veritea.dll. Not uses the full "thrash" engine, the glide api can be enabled from the game menu (similar to NHL 98).

I have tested NBA Live 99 on Rage Pro with ATI 3D CIF (I have deleted the D3D switches in 3ddata.dat than I have run 3Dsetup).
It starts with ATI 3D CIF but have bugs some black is missing (hair, shoes, knee pads) and parquet looks bad:

vetz wrote on 2016-06-08, 16:21:

Highest amount of APIs for one machine without using any VGA switchboxes and multiple 2D cards would be a system with: -Creative […]
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Highest amount of APIs for one machine without using any VGA switchboxes and multiple 2D cards would be a system with:
-Creative 3D Blaster PCI (CGL, RRedline, Speedy3D, Direct3D)
-Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2 (Glide, Direct3D)
-PCX2 PowerVR (PowerSGL, Direct 3D)
-Paradise Tasmania 3D

If you had a switchbox and an AGP motherboard (allows you to select main VGA card in DOS between PCI and AGP), this would probably be the largest API setup possible:

-Windows/DOS: S3 Virge GX2 AGP (S3D, Direct3D) OR ATI Rage 3D PRO AGP (ATICIF, Direct3D)
-Windows/DOS: Creative 3D Blaster PCI (CGL, RRedline, Speedy3D, Direct3D)
-Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2 (Glide, Direct3D)
-PCX2 PowerVR (PowerSGL, Direct 3D)
-Paradise Tasmania 3D

The S3 Virge has some better compatibility for early DOS games than the ATI Rage, but the ATI Rage have more kickass games with ATICIF exclusive Wipeout and Assault Rigs.

Question:
Why not add more PCI cards like the Matrox cards and NV1?
I don't have enough space to dedicate a whole rig to an obscure API. But a rig that is dedicated to all the obscure APIs is strangely appealing to me.

Another question:
Which is the last compatible ATI card? Rage 3D Pro?
What about Rage 3D Pro Turbo and Rage 3D Pro Xpert? Are they too new?

RaVeN-05 wrote on 2021-03-14, 20:24:

Asghan: The Dragon Slayer - possible can use S3D , ATI 3D CIF, Matrox MSI, since it contains DLL's for that APIs.

Interesting Game. Did not knew that until now.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-12, 18:41:

Another question:
Which is the last compatible ATI card? Rage 3D Pro?
What about Rage 3D Pro Turbo and Rage 3D Pro Xpert? Are they too new?

It's literally in the previous post, in the signature: https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI3DCIF/

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-12, 18:41:

Question: Why not add more PCI cards like the Matrox cards and NV1? I don't have enough space to dedicate a whole rig to an obsc […]
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vetz wrote on 2016-06-08, 16:21:

Highest amount of APIs for one machine without using any VGA switchboxes and multiple 2D cards would be a system with: -Creative […]
Show full quote

Highest amount of APIs for one machine without using any VGA switchboxes and multiple 2D cards would be a system with:
-Creative 3D Blaster PCI (CGL, RRedline, Speedy3D, Direct3D)
-Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2 (Glide, Direct3D)
-PCX2 PowerVR (PowerSGL, Direct 3D)
-Paradise Tasmania 3D

If you had a switchbox and an AGP motherboard (allows you to select main VGA card in DOS between PCI and AGP), this would probably be the largest API setup possible:

-Windows/DOS: S3 Virge GX2 AGP (S3D, Direct3D) OR ATI Rage 3D PRO AGP (ATICIF, Direct3D)
-Windows/DOS: Creative 3D Blaster PCI (CGL, RRedline, Speedy3D, Direct3D)
-Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2 (Glide, Direct3D)
-PCX2 PowerVR (PowerSGL, Direct 3D)
-Paradise Tasmania 3D

The S3 Virge has some better compatibility for early DOS games than the ATI Rage, but the ATI Rage have more kickass games with ATICIF exclusive Wipeout and Assault Rigs.

Question:
Why not add more PCI cards like the Matrox cards and NV1?
I don't have enough space to dedicate a whole rig to an obscure API. But a rig that is dedicated to all the obscure APIs is strangely appealing to me.

In DOS you cannot use a second 2D/3D card (I think Win9x the same), so you cannot build only one computer for all 3D APIs.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-12, 18:41:

Another question:
Which is the last compatible ATI card? Rage 3D Pro?
What about Rage 3D Pro Turbo and Rage 3D Pro Xpert? Are they too new?

In short, the last ATi 3D CIF compatible card is the ATi Rage XL AGP. This is the best choise if you want Direct3D, OpenGL and 3D CIF by a single videocard. But in 3D CIF the older ATi 3D RAGE Pro is a bit faster and more compatible. The "3D RAGE Pro" and "RAGE Pro Turbo" graphics chips are full the same (it was only renamed). You can read this on Wikipedia too:
"In February 1998, ATI introduced the 2x AGP version of the Rage Pro to the OEM market and attempted to reinvent the Rage Pro for the retail market, by simultaneously renaming the chip to Rage Pro Turbo, and releasing a new Rage Pro Turbo driver-set (4.10.2312) that supposedly increased performance by 40%. In reality, early versions of the new driver only delivered increased performance in benchmarks such as Ziff-Davis' 3D Winbench 98 and Final Reality. In games, performance actually suffered."
Also there you can read about Xpert:
"The 3D Rage Pro was mainly sold in the retail market as the Xpert@Work or the Xpert@Play, with the only difference being a TV-out port on the Xpert@Play version."

How good are those 8MB ATI PCI cards that seem to be actually produced?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/165383508492?hash=ite … 44AAOSwNrViLxPQ

They only have a 32 bit memory interface AFAIK. Recognizable on the one and only memory chip used. There are 64 bit versions, too. They have two memory chips.
Can't tell more about performance since I do not own one.

Edit:
Not exactly what I had in mind, but those are what I ment:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/175146964146?epid=110 … DkwAAOSwARZXou5~

Rage XL with 64 bit memory bus, but apperently AGP only.
Could swear I've seen them with two mem chips somewhere...

dr.zeissler wrote on 2022-03-18, 14:48:

How good are those 8MB ATI PCI cards that seem to be actually produced?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/165383508492?hash=ite … 44AAOSwNrViLxPQ

Unfortunately Ati Rage XL PCI works really different than the AGP one and it is not Ati 3D CIF compatible:
Proprietary 3D API's

Thx!

So in short, NBA99 does not work with ATI CIF, NHL99 does work? What about FIFA99 ?

While browsing old magazines I found this short test of the Matrox Impression Plus/Lite.
The last paragraph says something interesting:

Developers interested in these cards should contact Matrox, which has a development kit available for them. In addition, a certain company called TenBerry Software has just released a driver capable of exploiting the accelerated functions of the card from DOS. To date, only an SVGA version of Doom has seen the light of day, but Virgin is already announcing that some of their future products will include an option using this card. Infogrames and Adeline Software also say they are interested.

Assuming it's true, has anyone heard or read about such a version of Doom?

lolo799 wrote on 2022-03-24, 20:35:

While browsing old magazines I found this short test of the Matrox Impression Plus/Lite. The last paragraph says something inter […]
Show full quote

While browsing old magazines I found this short test of the Matrox Impression Plus/Lite.
The last paragraph says something interesting:

Developers interested in these cards should contact Matrox, which has a development kit available for them. In addition, a certain company called TenBerry Software has just released a driver capable of exploiting the accelerated functions of the card from DOS. To date, only an SVGA version of Doom has seen the light of day, but Virgin is already announcing that some of their future products will include an option using this card. Infogrames and Adeline Software also say they are interested.

Assuming it's true, has anyone heard or read about such a version of Doom?

Interesting. I had to think about where I had heard of Tenberry Software before, we better know them (still) as Rational Systems, the creators of DOS/4G, DOS/4GW and the rest.
search.php?keywords=tenberry
Perhaps that driver is preserved in the Wayback Machine somewhere, but I suppose it more likely that it were only available for purchase.

I don't know about that version of Doom though, I don't think that I have heard of it before!

Side note, it took me a little to notice that we haven't heard from frequent thread bumper RaVeN-05 in a number of weeks. Turns out, he is one of our many Ukrainian posters on VOGONS too. 🙁 Stay safe...

It was also mentioned in PC Magazine review of the card.
After looking at the magazines dates, maybe they were talking about WinDoom.