VOGONS

Common searches


First post, by videogamer555

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

First I should say, I'm using the LATEST SVN (not release) version of DosBox, as it has all the latest features not found in the release version (including some that I might need for what I'm trying to do). I'm not using any of the community forks that include unofficial mods, only the latest official SVN version, so that I can easily get support here from the official DosBox community. I downloaded the compiled SVN version (so I wouldn't need to compile it myself) from http://www.emucr.com/2021/12/dosbox-svn-r4471.html which I believe is in fact the pure SVN version, without any unofficial mods.

These are my autoexec commands in the dosbox.conf file.

imgmount 2 "HDD.img" -t hdd -size 512,63,16,142 -fs none
imgmount A "disk01.img" -t floppy -fs fat
imgmount D "Win95_OSR25.iso" -t iso -fs iso
boot -l A

At all points I made sure to AVOID using the normal "mount" command which can mount a host-system folder as a guest-system drive, but doesn't properly emulate a real drive as imgmount is supposed to do.

HDD.img is a blank harddrive image.
disk01.img is a Win95 boot floppy image (from WinWorldPC) containing DOS 7.10 (the version of DOS used by Win95).
Win95_OSR25.iso is a non-bootable CD-ROM image (from WinWorldPC) and contains all of the actual Win95 install files.

At the time of Win95, CDs weren't bootable so needed a boot floppy to be separately supplied (the reason for both the CD and floppy images I have). So with this all in place, it should all work. FDISK and FORMAT commands both work to get the HDD image ready for installing the OS. But there's a problem. It can't find the CDROM drive. The D: command doesn't work. Even when I let the boot disk attempt to install a CDROM driver (the Win95 boot floppy includes a CDROM driver for DOS), it doesn't work. The driver installer says it can't find the CDROM drive. There's like 4 or 5 different options for installing the driver, based on the manufacturer of the CDROM drive, but apparantly DosBox doesn't correctly emulate a CDROM drive from ANY of those manufacturers.

I also tried using the DOS 6.22 boot disk from allbootdisks.com which has a more generic CDROM driver for DOS, but it still couldn't find the CDROM drive emulated by DosBox. How do I get a driver for real MS-DOS that will recognize the CDROM drive emulated by DosBox?

Reply 1 of 13, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

So called "abandonware" isn't supported at vogons.
9x as a guest isn't supported inside DOSBox, you'll need to use DOSBox-X or preferably pcem if you want to run 9x as a guest. If you want speed in 9x then use the virtualization provided by qemu or vmware.

DOSBox is designed to run games so the features are geared to that. Installing DOS on an image and booting from it has always been a last resort as such features like the usage of the CDROM while booted from an HD image are not available. If a DOS game doesn't work the normal way then it should be reported here so it can be fixed.

If you want to continue with 9x as a guest in DOSBox then you can copy the install files to the HD and install from there this also eliminates having to put in the CD whenever 9x prompts for it.

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 3 of 13, by videogamer555

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
DosFreak wrote on 2022-01-13, 00:30:

So called "abandonware" isn't supported at vogons.

I wasn't asking for help with abandonware itself. I was asking for help with an OS, which I happened to have gotten from an abandonware site. I only mentioned the site so that others wanting to help me with the issue I was having could get the exact OS I was using. The best tech support is available when the tech support crew has access to the same software you do, so they can attempt to duplicate any bugs you describe.

By the way I used to have Win95 YEARS ago by legit purchasing the OS. The original CD I had is LONG GONE now though. I probably threw it out after getting Win98 or XP. So I have no possibility to be trying it from a legit source now. Basically any old software I'm asking for help on here, even if I don't explicitly say so, should be assumed to be downloaded from an abandonware website, because I've gotten rid of most of my original copies of really old software years ago.

Reply 4 of 13, by videogamer555

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
jmarsh wrote on 2022-01-13, 07:08:

DOSBox provides CD support by emulating mscdex, not by implementing IDE hardware so loading an operating system means there will be no CD detected.

I assumed that ALL disk images (floppy, cd, and hdd) mounted by the imgmount command, would be usable after the boot command was called. After all, if the boot command can see a mounted image (for example "boot -l A" works, meaning the boot command can see the floppy labeled A from the previous use of the imgmount command) then that guarentied that the booted OS from calling the boot command would be able to see every disk mounted from previous uses of the imgmount command, so a mounted ISO would be seen as a real CD drive.

Reply 5 of 13, by videogamer555

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
DosFreak wrote on 2022-01-13, 00:30:

If you want to continue with 9x as a guest in DOSBox then you can copy the install files to the HD and install from there this also eliminates having to put in the CD whenever 9x prompts for it.

That doesn't work. The largest HDD image that DosBox recognizes is about 500MB. The total size of all the files on the Win95C ISO is almost 600MB. That's too big to copy to the largest HDD image that DosBox will recognize.

Reply 6 of 13, by DosFreak

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

We don't support so called "abandonware" here so if you don't care about our rules then at least don't mention from where you got it otherwise the thread will be locked as this one already should have been.

You don't need to copy the entire cd just the 9x files.

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 7 of 13, by jmarsh

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
videogamer555 wrote on 2022-01-13, 09:12:

I assumed that ALL disk images (floppy, cd, and hdd) mounted by the imgmount command, would be usable after the boot command was called. After all, if the boot command can see a mounted image (for example "boot -l A" works, meaning the boot command can see the floppy labeled A from the previous use of the imgmount command) then that guarentied that the booted OS from calling the boot command would be able to see every disk mounted from previous uses of the imgmount command, so a mounted ISO would be seen as a real CD drive.

Floppy and hard drives are accessed by the booted OS via BIOS calls (which DOSBox emulates), CD drives have no such common interface. That's why they needed special drivers to be loaded to make them usable under MS-DOS on a real machine; they don't "just work" like floppies and HDDs.

DOSBox can work with hard disk images up to 2GB in size, more than enough to hold a win95 install cd but it's still a waste of time, windows 95 will not run correctly under any current public version of DOSBox.

Reply 8 of 13, by TrashPanda

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
jmarsh wrote on 2022-01-13, 13:17:
videogamer555 wrote on 2022-01-13, 09:12:

I assumed that ALL disk images (floppy, cd, and hdd) mounted by the imgmount command, would be usable after the boot command was called. After all, if the boot command can see a mounted image (for example "boot -l A" works, meaning the boot command can see the floppy labeled A from the previous use of the imgmount command) then that guarentied that the booted OS from calling the boot command would be able to see every disk mounted from previous uses of the imgmount command, so a mounted ISO would be seen as a real CD drive.

Floppy and hard drives are accessed by the booted OS via BIOS calls (which DOSBox emulates), CD drives have no such common interface. That's why they needed special drivers to be loaded to make them usable under MS-DOS on a real machine; they don't "just work" like floppies and HDDs.

DOSBox can work with hard disk images up to 2GB in size, more than enough to hold a win95 install cd but it's still a waste of time, windows 95 will not run correctly under any current public version of DOSBox.

Its odd that people expect DOSBox which is designed specifically for games to be able to emulate enough correctly to run windows 95, pretty sure it'll run Win3.11 but that has far less hardware requirements than 95 does.

Perhaps its because people forget that DOSBox is not a PC emulator or VM.

Reply 10 of 13, by TrashPanda

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
jmarsh wrote on 2022-01-13, 21:10:

It is a PC emulator, it just doesn't emulate every little piece required for correct win95 operation.

not sure I would call it a PC emulator as its only emulating hardware required to run DOS and none of it is 100% correctly emulated, its more of an OS emulator for DOS, its certainly no WINUAE which I would happily throw into the PC emulator category.

Its really its own thing not fully one or the other but built for the specific purpose of running DOS games and only correctly emulating that which is required to do that task.

Reply 12 of 13, by _Rob

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

As already mentioned, regular DOSBox (including SVN) has no support for IDE devices and is only meant for running DOS games. If you need this functionality you should have a look at DOSBox-X which has IDE support and just happens to also support Windows 95 and 98.

Reply 13 of 13, by TrashPanda

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
jmarsh wrote on 2022-01-14, 08:31:

It fully emulates an x86 CPU, BIOS, video hardware, PIC(8259A), serial ports, sound cards... and can boot several other OSes besides MSDOS. If that's not a PC emulator I don't know what is.

It ticks about a third of the boxes required for it to be a PC emulator, as said it only emulates what it requires for DOS gaming, the fact it can boot a few other OSes means little.

Get back to me when it can emulate IDE drives and CD drives and when it has enough correctly emulated hardware to run windows 95, look at what WinUAE is capable of and you will have an idea of what a full PC emulator is.

For me DOSBox is its own thing, its was designed for a specific task (Running DOS games) and it does that task exceptionally well.

Its fine to agree to disagree which is what I'm going to do here, I dont think this discussion will lead to anything fruitful so I likely wont reply to it again.