VOGONS


Reply 20 of 82, by enaiel

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2022-01-21, 16:03:
enaiel wrote on 2022-01-21, 13:28:

I think we're in almost complete agreement - the Nehemiah is better than the Ezra-T for a hybrid DOS/Windows PC. I just feel that the Ezra-T runs the DOS games that I like to play better than the Nehemiah, that's all.

Which games?

A few games from the top of my head that played smoother on the Ezra-T than the Nehemiah:

  • Dark Forces
  • Gods
  • Magic Carpet
  • Tyrian

#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 21 of 82, by enaiel

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2022-01-21, 17:17:
Look here. I think it is the same as yours. I took this one apart. I still need to fix the damaged area. See the black spots on […]
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Look here. I think it is the same as yours.
I took this one apart. I still need to fix the damaged area.
See the black spots on the PCB is where the capacitor ruptured and leaked onto the PCB
Damaging the traces.

The fix:
I think the fix is to get the surface mount capacitor off the PCB. So I plan on using a capacitor with long legs instead.
This should keep the capacitor from getting hot and rupturing.

Thank you for the pics. I don't think my card is that damaged yet, but more reason to use the bracket fan approach to cool the entire card that @Joseph_Joestar suggested.

#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 22 of 82, by enaiel

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-01-21, 17:36:

On the picture that you posted, I see screws going from the fan into the heatsink. Therefore, it should be as simple as unscrewing the fan and desoldering the wires.

Unless whoever modded the card actually glued the fan to the heatsink for some reason?

Thanks for all your help! You were right, the fan was easily removed, it's the heat sink that was stuck with the white thermal epoxy. However, on removing the fan, I found the reason for the fan mod - the heat sink has moved slightly out of position. Would the bracket fan approach still work, or do I need to take-off the heat sink and reapply it first? How do I take-off the heat sink? I tried running it till it got hot, but it wouldn't budge.

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#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 23 of 82, by Joseph_Joestar

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enaiel wrote on 2022-01-21, 20:41:

Would the bracket fan approach still work, or do I need to take-off the heat sink and reapply it first?

If the heatsink hasn't been tampered with by the previous owner, the fan bracket will work fine. Given its current state, it's impossible to tell, but you won't lose anything by getting the fan bracket. Worst case scenario, it can be used to cool a different card.

How do I take-off the heat sink?

You don't. Voodoo3 heatsinks are notoriously difficult to remove. Attempting to do so often damages the chip underneath, rendering the card useless in most cases.

It's possible, but extremely difficult, to use a razor blade or something similarly sharp and thin to cut away the epoxy. I would advise against this though.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 24 of 82, by mothergoose729

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enaiel wrote on 2022-01-21, 19:58:
A few games from the top of my head that played smoother on the Ezra-T than the Nehemiah: […]
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mothergoose729 wrote on 2022-01-21, 16:03:
enaiel wrote on 2022-01-21, 13:28:

I think we're in almost complete agreement - the Nehemiah is better than the Ezra-T for a hybrid DOS/Windows PC. I just feel that the Ezra-T runs the DOS games that I like to play better than the Nehemiah, that's all.

Which games?

A few games from the top of my head that played smoother on the Ezra-T than the Nehemiah:

  • Dark Forces
  • Gods
  • Magic Carpet
  • Tyrian

Magic Carpet is special that way. If you are using throttle to get down to 486DX266 speeds you might want to try mo'slo instead, or play it at the slight faster DX4 100 speeds which I what I did.

I don't own Tyrian, but I did play a fair bit of Dark Forces and I fired up Gods just now and those games play well on my setup. Are you using throttle with these games too? I don't think they are speed sensitive.

Reply 25 of 82, by enaiel

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2022-01-21, 21:20:

Magic Carpet is special that way. If you are using throttle to get down to 486DX266 speeds you might want to try mo'slo instead, or play it at the slight faster DX4 100 speeds which I what I did.

Agreed, Magic Carpet is a special case.

I don't own Tyrian, but I did play a fair bit of Dark Forces and I fired up Gods just now and those games play well on my setup. Are you using throttle with these games too? I don't think they are speed sensitive.

Yes, if I don't slow them down to 486 speeds, I have the following issues:

  • Dark Forces: My version hangs while starting.
  • Gods: Game is unplayable with gamepad.
  • Tyrian: Runtime Error 200.

#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 26 of 82, by mothergoose729

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I don't have a gamepad on hand for GODS, but I would bet you can run it at 386 speeds just fine. That runtime 200 error usually happens with pascal programs and typically you can get away with pentium speeds. I don't have any issues with Dark Forces at all, but I think I have patched and modded it.

Reply 27 of 82, by Joseph_Joestar

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enaiel wrote on 2022-01-21, 23:23:

Tyrian: Runtime Error 200.

That error can be patched: Fix "Error 200" (Divide by zero) - by Snover and Stiletto (updated!)

Also, there's an updated version of the game called Tyrian 2000 which doesn't have that issue and still works fine under DOS. It has been made free by the original developers and can be downloaded from GOG, among other places. https://www.gog.com/game/tyrian_2000

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 28 of 82, by enaiel

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-01-21, 20:52:
enaiel wrote on 2022-01-21, 20:41:

Would the bracket fan approach still work, or do I need to take-off the heat sink and reapply it first?

If the heatsink hasn't been tampered with by the previous owner, the fan bracket will work fine. Given its current state, it's impossible to tell, but you won't lose anything by getting the fan bracket. Worst case scenario, it can be used to cool a different card.

The fan bracket didn't work. I bought a cheap one from Amazon on my last day of my free Prime trial yesterday, and it was delivered today! Ran it with the max 12V and seemed to blow pretty cool, but the V3 would not respond.

Any other suggestions?

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#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 30 of 82, by enaiel

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kolderman wrote on 2022-01-22, 20:06:

Why even bother with the FX5500?

Thought I could use it to run dgVoodoo since the V3 2000 is out of commission?

#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 31 of 82, by kolderman

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enaiel wrote on 2022-01-22, 22:51:
kolderman wrote on 2022-01-22, 20:06:

Why even bother with the FX5500?

Thought I could use it to run dgVoodoo since the V3 2000 is out of commission?

Fair enough. Does it not run on the ti4200? Is the c3 fast enough four emulation?

Reply 33 of 82, by Joseph_Joestar

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enaiel wrote on 2022-01-22, 20:00:

The fan bracket didn't work. I bought a cheap one from Amazon on my last day of my free Prime trial yesterday, and it was delivered today! Ran it with the max 12V and seemed to blow pretty cool, but the V3 would not respond.

At this point, it would be best to refund the card.

If not heat related, then the issues you're experiencing could be due to a number of things: bad capacitors, faulty memory chips, cracked solder joints etc.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 34 of 82, by enaiel

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-01-23, 04:42:

At this point, it would be best to refund the card.

Unfortunately it took me over 6 months to properly test the card, past eBay's return/refund window. So I'm stuck with it 🙁

#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 35 of 82, by Joseph_Joestar

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enaiel wrote on 2022-01-23, 17:07:

Unfortunately it took me over 6 months to properly test the card, past eBay's return/refund window. So I'm stuck with it 🙁

That's too bad, I imagine the Voodoo3 wasn't exactly cheap. It's always best to test retro hardware as soon as possible, even if the seller claims it's in perfect condition.

You might still be able to get it repaired, but it takes a very skilled retro tinkerer to do that. Try asking @scorp if he can lend a hand, since he has some experience with reviving Voodoo cards.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 36 of 82, by enaiel

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-01-23, 20:48:

You might still be able to get it repaired, but it takes a very skilled retro tinkerer to do that. Try asking @scorp if he can lend a hand, since he has some experience with reviving Voodoo cards.

That's a great video, but he fixes the card by replacing the TMU and VRAM from another card. I have neither the skills for SMD soldering, nor any donor cards 🙁

#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 37 of 82, by enaiel

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For some reason, the combination of this motherboard, the extra RAM and the Nehemiah CPU are not giving me the same amount of Joy in DOS as my Ezra-T PC. I'm thinking of swapping the Nehemiah for a 1.26GHz Tualatin that I have, and making this a dedicated Win98 PC. Any idea what the performance difference will be? I'm guessing the Nehemiah should be able to run games up to 2001. Will I be able to stretch it to run games up to 2003 with the Tualatin (and the GF4 Ti4200)?

#1 VIA C3 Ezra-T 1.0GHz/MSI MS-6368/Voodoo2+ViRGE GX/SBPro2+YMF744+AWE64+SC-7
#2 Pentium III-S Tualatin 1.40GHz/QDI A10T/Voodoo3 3000+GF4 Ti4200/Audigy+AU8830+SC-50

Reply 38 of 82, by The Serpent Rider

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Will I be able to stretch it to run games up to 2003 with the Tualatin (and the GF4 Ti4200)?

Depends which Tualatin model and how far you can overclock it. Should be fine mostly, but some games weren't comfortable on aging P3 CPUs with SDRAM (without overclocking).

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Reply 39 of 82, by Joseph_Joestar

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enaiel wrote on 2022-01-26, 03:09:

Will I be able to stretch it to run games up to 2003 with the Tualatin (and the GF4 Ti4200)?

Depends on the game. Some 2002 and 2003 titles will be CPU bound and memory bandwidth starved on that platform. Others will run mostly fine, but don't expect a locked 60 FPS experience all the time.

IMO, the ideal cutoff point for Win98 gaming is 2001. Anything made in 2002 and onward is better played on a WinXP rig, using much more powerful hardware.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi