Avernum: Escape from the Pit

I spent the past few days doing some research on this game and Eye of the Beholder 2. I loaded both up and messed around with them. I tried EOB2 on my DOS PC as well as modern PC with The All-Seeing Eye.

This morning, I spent an hour on Avernum, slowly going through the starter dungeon and familiarizing myself with the interface. I think I'm going to stick with it. I'm usually a stickler for having in-game music, but there have been a few I've played without music (Legend of Grimrock and Wizardry 6 come to mind) that ended up being okay. I stuck with a pretty standard starting party: Soldier, Archer, Priest, Sorcerer, and my usual character names: Arnellis (made up), Tanis (from Dragonlance), Nystul (from the Ultima series), and Raistlin (Dragonlance).

The main thing I don't like is at my 23.8" monitor's default 1920x1080, characters and text are too small. I dropped the game resolution to 1600x900 and that made the difference (albeit, I lost the crispness of my native resolution). This could've been solved with a zoom view option, but that's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. The only other complaint I have is too few character models. There's really no male equivalent to the female archer model, and none of the models appear to be older than about 30. I prefer my cleric/priest to be older and wiser for role-playing purposes. 🤷

The graphics are fine for this type of game. In fact, they look very similar to another RPG series I loved: Eschalon Books 1-3.

The only downside of the Spiderweb software games is that the dev (single-man studio) doesn't do widescreen. Pop an old large-sized 4:3 LCD monitor on your aux video output and that's the way to go. He's been remaking the older games with graphics updates, but it takes a long time, as he is just a single dev.

clueless1 wrote on 2022-02-05, 13:32:

Avernum: Escape from the Pit

...

I stuck with a pretty standard starting party: Soldier, Archer, Priest, Sorcerer, and my usual character names: Arnellis (made up), Tanis (from Dragonlance), Nystul (from the Ultima series), and Raistlin (Dragonlance).

Haha, very nice. I too used to include AD&D characters in my CRPG parties. A Raistlin of course - who wouldn't?! Only Elminster could challenge. Sometimes a Tas - even though it might hold back the brute strength of my party, you can't put a value on laughs and good vibes! Perhaps a Silvara, because hidden strengths (*some romantic stuff from the novels of those times does not age very well!). And a dual-wielding Drizzt or similar, to chop everything up. 🤣

Trying to think who else I would use, back then. Maybe Tanis, too, and sometimes Caramon as the frontline fighter. Elminster, as mentioned, or the girl from Spellfire. Azure's Alias and Olive. Ahh, Khelben! He was a biggy. Dalamar, perhaps. And a couple of FR's drow, like Zaknafein or Jarlaxle. Chaotic Good characters were generally the most fun.

I had quite a lot of those books, during certain teen years. 😀

It enhanced the whole Gold/Black Box SSI game series' into a massive, deep (at the time) mixed-media universe which was far more than just the games themselves. It was an entire populated stylised world(s) already set up in your head, and the games were symbolic laid over top.

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-02-05, 21:34:

Haha, very nice. I too used to include AD&D characters in my CRPG parties. A Raistlin of course - who wouldn't?! Only Elminster […]
Show full quote

clueless1 wrote on 2022-02-05, 13:32:

Avernum: Escape from the Pit

...

I stuck with a pretty standard starting party: Soldier, Archer, Priest, Sorcerer, and my usual character names: Arnellis (made up), Tanis (from Dragonlance), Nystul (from the Ultima series), and Raistlin (Dragonlance).

Haha, very nice. I too used to include AD&D characters in my CRPG parties. A Raistlin of course - who wouldn't?! Only Elminster could challenge. Sometimes a Tas - even though it might hold back the brute strength of my party, you can't put a value on laughs and good vibes! Perhaps a Silvara, because hidden strengths (*some romantic stuff from the novels of those times does not age very well!). And a dual-wielding Drizzt or similar, to chop everything up. 🤣

Trying to think who else I would use, back then. Maybe Tanis, too, and sometimes Caramon as the frontline fighter. Elminster, as mentioned, or the girl from Spellfire. Azure's Alias and Olive. Ahh, Khelben! He was a biggy. Dalamar, perhaps. And a couple of FR's drow, like Zaknafein or Jarlaxle. Chaotic Good characters were generally the most fun.

I had quite a lot of those books, during certain teen years. 😀

It enhanced the whole Gold/Black Box SSI game series' into a massive, deep (at the time) mixed-media universe which was far more than just the games themselves. It was an entire populated stylised world(s) already set up in your head, and the games were symbolic laid over top.

Yeah, I used a combination of Ultima and Dragonlance characters a lot. Still do. Others...
From Ultima:
Jaana
Iolo
Shamino
Dupre
Julia
Mariah
Gwenno

From Dragonlance:
Caramon
Fizban
Flint
Riverwind
Sturm
Tasslehoff
Tika

I'm kind of proud of the name Arnellis, which I came up with on my own. It's usually my primary character in any RPG, and a name as far as I know, is completely unique. Typically used with a Paladin or fighter character. I've had to spell it Arnelis in games that had a limited character space (Wizardry 6?).

In the womb, they were twins Arnold and Alice... but now they have merged into one, and become... Arnellis!

All this Freelancer talk, I wanted to ask: Have you guys played Starlancer or Tachyon: The Fringe? I remember really enjoying these as a space sim fan back in the day but very few people actually seem to have played them strangely enough. Starlancer in particular was the only game that came close to feeling like Freespace 3 for me..

appiah4 wrote on 2022-02-06, 08:38:

All this Freelancer talk, I wanted to ask: Have you guys played Starlancer or Tachyon: The Fringe?

I haven't played them, but I vaguely remember both games getting positive reviews in my local computer magazines of the day.

Back to my Freelancer impressions, I guess ignoring the main plot only works for so long. Despite having made a ton of credits from trading, I can't buy any new ships, shields or weapons because they all have "level requirements". So, despite having enough credits to buy a powerful battleship, I can't do it since I'm still level 9. I guess the developers did that to ensure that the player doesn't get too powerful for combat encounters on the plot missions, but I still find it lame.

Also, I'm disliking how roughly 50% of them time when I'm simply exiting a space station, I get thrown straight into a firefight. Sometimes, the enemies start shooting at before the "undock" cutscene even finishes, which results in losing 75% of shield strength before even being able to respond. That's some very bad game design.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-02-06, 09:52:

Also, I'm disliking how roughly 50% of them time when I'm simply exiting a space station, I get thrown straight into a firefight. Sometimes, the enemies start shooting at before the "undock" cutscene even finishes, which results in losing 75% of shield strength before even being able to respond. That's some very bad game design.

I've played Freelancer only once back in the day and I remember exactly two things:

1. The atmosphere was occasionally pretty nice, flying around in middle of asteroid fields and nebulas.

2. I hated how the world revolved around the player, jump in a system where two different hostile factions are fighting each other and both immediately attack the player in unison.

Sombrero wrote on 2022-02-06, 10:09:

2. I hated how the world revolved around the player, jump in a system where two different hostile factions are fighting each other and both immediately attack the player in unison.

Yup, I've experienced this behavior too.

Here's an example. Due to main plot reasons, the bounty hunter guild is currently hostile to me. Fine, whatever. But when I enter a system where bounty hunters are engaging two separate criminal factions, everyone immediately stops fighting each other and targets me instead. It's getting really annoying.

clueless1 wrote on 2022-02-05, 13:32:

Avernum: Escape from the Pit […]
Show full quote

Avernum: Escape from the Pit

I spent the past few days doing some research on this game and Eye of the Beholder 2. I loaded both up and messed around with them. I tried EOB2 on my DOS PC as well as modern PC with The All-Seeing Eye.

This morning, I spent an hour on Avernum, slowly going through the starter dungeon and familiarizing myself with the interface. I think I'm going to stick with it. I'm usually a stickler for having in-game music, but there have been a few I've played without music (Legend of Grimrock and Wizardry 6 come to mind) that ended up being okay. I stuck with a pretty standard starting party: Soldier, Archer, Priest, Sorcerer, and my usual character names: Arnellis (made up), Tanis (from Dragonlance), Nystul (from the Ultima series), and Raistlin (Dragonlance).

The main thing I don't like is at my 23.8" monitor's default 1920x1080, characters and text are too small. I dropped the game resolution to 1600x900 and that made the difference (albeit, I lost the crispness of my native resolution). This could've been solved with a zoom view option, but that's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. The only other complaint I have is too few character models. There's really no male equivalent to the female archer model, and none of the models appear to be older than about 30. I prefer my cleric/priest to be older and wiser for role-playing purposes. 🤷

The graphics are fine for this type of game. In fact, they look very similar to another RPG series I loved: Eschalon Books 1-3.
Avernum1.png

This is not the original Avernum you are playing is it? It's the.. 2013? remake?

Playing Tie Fighter (cd ROM edition). Sadly I only have one game port on this computer so I can't use mt32 sound. But I think the sb16 does an ok job in this case.

Freelancer just keeps getting worse and worse. At a certain point, you're forced into a string of plot missions and all semblance of freedom goes away. During those plot missions, you're fighting against overwhelming odds, heavily outnumbered and outgunned by your opponents. Often, you aren't even given the opportunity to restock and resupply between missions. Worst of all, your level doesn't go up at all, which prevents you from buying better equipment like stronger shields.

And to top it all off, I just encountered a mission which is actually timed, i.e. you have 10 real-life minutes to complete it while being outnumbered 30 to 1 (no joke). Screw whoever designed this. I guess I'll either cheat my way through the rest of the game or drop it entirely.

appiah4 wrote on 2022-02-06, 08:38:

All this Freelancer talk, I wanted to ask: Have you guys played Starlancer or Tachyon: The Fringe? I remember really enjoying these as a space sim fan back in the day but very few people actually seem to have played them strangely enough. Starlancer in particular was the only game that came close to feeling like Freespace 3 for me..

My fav space "sim", even bought 2 joysticks for it... first one just cus I need a joystick... Second one cus I needed a better one with force feedback 😁

Well, turns out there wasn't much left to do after the timed mission. A few space battles and then off to the bad guys' home world for the final showdown. I happily turned god mode on for those and completed the rest of the game in 20 minutes.

I guess you're level capped at 17 until you finish the game. Then you suddenly jump to level 36 and can finally buy all ships and equipment. Terrible gameplay design yet again.

Freelancer had a lot of potential. The graphics were excellent for the time, and the space areas are nice to look at even today. The main cast was likable with most characters voiced by experienced industry veterans. What kills the game is the absolute linearity of the last 25% of the main plot and the insane difficulty ramp up as you approach the ending. With a bit more polish, this could have been a really good game. But sadly, it didn't get that chance, and will remain utterly mediocre.

appiah4 wrote on 2022-02-07, 18:30:

This is not the original Avernum you are playing is it? It's the.. 2013? remake?

That is correct, though the release date is listed as 2011, not 2013. I believe I got all of them when I bought the game on GOG, but figured I'd just play the most modern version.

Starlance and Freelancer, I'll have to give those a go... I guess the sites I read weren't much into space sims... can't believe I missed them though.

clueless1 wrote on 2022-02-05, 13:32:

Avernum: Escape from the Pit […]
Show full quote

Avernum: Escape from the Pit

I spent the past few days doing some research on this game and Eye of the Beholder 2. I loaded both up and messed around with them. I tried EOB2 on my DOS PC as well as modern PC with The All-Seeing Eye.

This morning, I spent an hour on Avernum, slowly going through the starter dungeon and familiarizing myself with the interface. I think I'm going to stick with it. I'm usually a stickler for having in-game music, but there have been a few I've played without music (Legend of Grimrock and Wizardry 6 come to mind) that ended up being okay. I stuck with a pretty standard starting party: Soldier, Archer, Priest, Sorcerer, and my usual character names: Arnellis (made up), Tanis (from Dragonlance), Nystul (from the Ultima series), and Raistlin (Dragonlance).

The main thing I don't like is at my 23.8" monitor's default 1920x1080, characters and text are too small. I dropped the game resolution to 1600x900 and that made the difference (albeit, I lost the crispness of my native resolution). This could've been solved with a zoom view option, but that's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. The only other complaint I have is too few character models. There's really no male equivalent to the female archer model, and none of the models appear to be older than about 30. I prefer my cleric/priest to be older and wiser for role-playing purposes. 🤷

The graphics are fine for this type of game. In fact, they look very similar to another RPG series I loved: Eschalon Books 1-3.
Avernum1.png

I'm glad to see you went with this one. It will be interesting to read your thoughts (especially to compare with Exile: Escape from the Pit, which I am currently playing).

newtmonkey wrote on 2022-02-08, 05:56:

clueless1 wrote on 2022-02-05, 13:32:

Avernum: Escape from the Pit […]
Show full quote

Avernum: Escape from the Pit

I spent the past few days doing some research on this game and Eye of the Beholder 2. I loaded both up and messed around with them. I tried EOB2 on my DOS PC as well as modern PC with The All-Seeing Eye.

This morning, I spent an hour on Avernum, slowly going through the starter dungeon and familiarizing myself with the interface. I think I'm going to stick with it. I'm usually a stickler for having in-game music, but there have been a few I've played without music (Legend of Grimrock and Wizardry 6 come to mind) that ended up being okay. I stuck with a pretty standard starting party: Soldier, Archer, Priest, Sorcerer, and my usual character names: Arnellis (made up), Tanis (from Dragonlance), Nystul (from the Ultima series), and Raistlin (Dragonlance).

The main thing I don't like is at my 23.8" monitor's default 1920x1080, characters and text are too small. I dropped the game resolution to 1600x900 and that made the difference (albeit, I lost the crispness of my native resolution). This could've been solved with a zoom view option, but that's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. The only other complaint I have is too few character models. There's really no male equivalent to the female archer model, and none of the models appear to be older than about 30. I prefer my cleric/priest to be older and wiser for role-playing purposes. 🤷

The graphics are fine for this type of game. In fact, they look very similar to another RPG series I loved: Eschalon Books 1-3.
Avernum1.png

I'm glad to see you went with this one. It will be interesting to read your thoughts (especially to compare with Exile: Escape from the Pit, which I am currently playing).

The two are pretty similar but Avernum streamlined a lot of systems and some of the more really in depth stuff got removed in favour of better QOL.

I personally prefer Exile over Avernum but I like really indepth stuff like CDDA and Dwarf Fortress so it suited me better.

newtmonkey wrote on 2022-02-08, 05:56:

clueless1 wrote on 2022-02-05, 13:32:

Avernum: Escape from the Pit […]
Show full quote

Avernum: Escape from the Pit

I spent the past few days doing some research on this game and Eye of the Beholder 2. I loaded both up and messed around with them. I tried EOB2 on my DOS PC as well as modern PC with The All-Seeing Eye.

This morning, I spent an hour on Avernum, slowly going through the starter dungeon and familiarizing myself with the interface. I think I'm going to stick with it. I'm usually a stickler for having in-game music, but there have been a few I've played without music (Legend of Grimrock and Wizardry 6 come to mind) that ended up being okay. I stuck with a pretty standard starting party: Soldier, Archer, Priest, Sorcerer, and my usual character names: Arnellis (made up), Tanis (from Dragonlance), Nystul (from the Ultima series), and Raistlin (Dragonlance).

The main thing I don't like is at my 23.8" monitor's default 1920x1080, characters and text are too small. I dropped the game resolution to 1600x900 and that made the difference (albeit, I lost the crispness of my native resolution). This could've been solved with a zoom view option, but that's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. The only other complaint I have is too few character models. There's really no male equivalent to the female archer model, and none of the models appear to be older than about 30. I prefer my cleric/priest to be older and wiser for role-playing purposes. 🤷

The graphics are fine for this type of game. In fact, they look very similar to another RPG series I loved: Eschalon Books 1-3.
Avernum1.png

I'm glad to see you went with this one. It will be interesting to read your thoughts (especially to compare with Exile: Escape from the Pit, which I am currently playing).

I'm about 6 hours in so far, not really enough time to know the game well, so these are preliminary thoughts:
-I started the game off on Casual skill level. So far, combat has been way too easy. I just bumped it up to Normal. We'll see how that goes.
-I think I keep running into vestiges of old systems that were removed. Items that maybe had a use in a previous version but not in this one. It doesn't appear as if hunger or thirst apply, but I keep finding food and drink. I see that it does heal a few HP, so maybe that was the way of removing hunger but leaving the food items behind to maintain usefulness. I have already found a list of useless game items on the internet that I refer to before picking things up. 😀
-I prefer a party of 6 to 4, but I'm getting used to this.
-I'd like more options for making the game look good on my monitor. I had to reduce game resolution to make the characters bigger, which is not ideal with an LCD display.
-I'd like to be able to navigate between menu screens without having to exit to the main screen first. For example, if I'm in Inventory, I can't go straight to Stats. I have to exit Inventory, then enter Stats. And I'd like the same key to exit. So if I hit I to enter Inventory, I'd like to hit I again to exit inventory. No, I must click the exit button, or hit ESC, which involves moving my hand significantly away from where it currently is.
-so far, the story is very immersive and I'm enjoying the gameplay. Very reminiscent of an Ultima VII-type game, which is a good thing.
-I've only leveled up once so far, but I did enjoy that process. Looking forward to learning more about it.

Been a while since I played an A3D 2.0 game, so let's fix that. For this purpose, I temporarily swapped out the SBLive in my AthlonXP rig for a Turtle Beach Montego II. It's a nice card, but I have yet to find a permanent home for it, since it gets used so rarely.

I've been meaning to revisit Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force ever since I rewatched the TV show a few years back. After installing the game from the retail disc, I applied the latest official patch in order to restore the original Seven of Nine voice. As for the sound drivers, I'm using the ones which came on the Montego II CD, and they seem to be working nicely:

The only minor issue that I've encountered is that the A3D checkbox turns itself off every time I exit to Windows. Not a big deal, as long as I remember to turn it back on when starting up the game next time. I remember something like that happening with Quake 3 as well. On the bright side, A3D does function correctly while I'm in the game, and that's what ultimately matters.