I use SD/MSD > CF adaptors, there are even adaptors that take two micro SD cards and let you use 4 Micro SD cards in one Dual CF adaptor.

SD cards are perfectly ok if you cant get cheap CF cards, and let be real here all SD cards have their own garbage collection built in so even the cheap ones will last a significantly long time if not allowed to be filled up, treat it like a SSD and dont do stupid stuff like putting the swap file on it or using it as a download dump drive and it should out live the machine its put into.

The only issue with SD cards is finding SD cards that are less than 4gb, SD was never really used for sub 4gb sizes unlike CF was and the sub 4gb SD cards will be exceptionally rare, expensive or both, I like keeping some 512mb CF cards around for the older machines that cant handle 1gb drives.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-10, 06:01:

there are even adaptors that take two micro SD cards and let you use 4 Micro SD cards in one Dual CF adaptor.

Are those seen as a single drive with some kind of RAID0 or RAID1 like solution or as many as the number of SD cards?

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-10, 06:01:

I use SD/MSD > CF adaptors, there are even adaptors that take two micro SD cards and let you use 4 Micro SD cards in one Dual CF adaptor.

SD cards are perfectly ok if you cant get cheap CF cards, and let be real here all SD cards have their own garbage collection built in so even the cheap ones will last a significantly long time if not allowed to be filled up, treat it like a SSD and dont do stupid stuff like putting the swap file on it or using it as a download dump drive and it should out live the machine its put into.

The only issue with SD cards is finding SD cards that are less than 4gb, SD was never really used for sub 4gb sizes unlike CF was and the sub 4gb SD cards will be exceptionally rare, expensive or both, I like keeping some 512mb CF cards around for the older machines that cant handle 1gb drives.

The extra high endurance cards are just extra reliability insurance . Even with a swap file on one, I'm not sure I would worry too much . TBH, I am a bit curious. I could monitor writes on a Windows 98 SE SSD setup that I have to get an idea . THe last time I checked, most of the write usage was due to me copying stuff onto the drive .

I bought some generic 2GB SD cards when testing thing for a project a year or so ago. The aren't fast but they do work (AFAICR, I did test capacity with h2wtest). https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07R2J5CC4/

On the subject of SATA drive size, I wonder if SATA SSDs typically support setting a smaller capacity using DCO ?

darry wrote on 2022-02-10, 06:22:

The extra high endurance cards are just extra reliability insurance . Even with a swap file on one, I'm not sure I would worry t […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-10, 06:01:

I use SD/MSD > CF adaptors, there are even adaptors that take two micro SD cards and let you use 4 Micro SD cards in one Dual CF adaptor.

SD cards are perfectly ok if you cant get cheap CF cards, and let be real here all SD cards have their own garbage collection built in so even the cheap ones will last a significantly long time if not allowed to be filled up, treat it like a SSD and dont do stupid stuff like putting the swap file on it or using it as a download dump drive and it should out live the machine its put into.

The only issue with SD cards is finding SD cards that are less than 4gb, SD was never really used for sub 4gb sizes unlike CF was and the sub 4gb SD cards will be exceptionally rare, expensive or both, I like keeping some 512mb CF cards around for the older machines that cant handle 1gb drives.

The extra high endurance cards are just extra reliability insurance . Even with a swap file on one, I'm not sure I would worry too much . TBH, I am a bit curious. I could monitor writes on a Windows 98 SE SSD setup that I have to get an idea . THe last time I checked, most of the write usage was due to me copying stuff onto the drive .

I bought some generic 2GB SD cards when testing thing for a project a year or so ago. The aren't fast but they do work (AFAICR, I did test capacity with h2wtest). https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07R2J5CC4/

On the subject of SATA drive size, I wonder if SATA SSDs typically support setting a smaller capacity using DCO ?

SDD doesnt have an issue being set to a smaller size via partitions, it is actually a great idea as it leaves the provisioned space for the drives garbage collection to use, I'm not sure SSDs use DCO and use DFA(HPA) instead, but it might be something worth looking into and now that you have asked the question I find myself curious and I do have a few SSD drives that could be sacrificed to find out. (Turns out Sata based SSDs do indeed use DCO with HPA, found a Linux article about checking the DCO)

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-02-10, 06:13:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-10, 06:01:

there are even adaptors that take two micro SD cards and let you use 4 Micro SD cards in one Dual CF adaptor.

Are those seen as a single drive with some kind of RAID0 or RAID1 like solution or as many as the number of SD cards?

That's something I will get back to you on, I have seen the dual Micro SD to CF adaptors on eBay but have not yet bought them to test if its seen as a raid or if its just individual drives, I cant see it as being raid as that would require configuration of some kind and for the price of these things (20AUD) I wouldn't expect that functionality.

Worth investigating though, I wonder if windows could raid them together if they are just individual drives.

Oh, and Kingston has a line of (micro)SD cards that use pSLC for likely even greater endurance. I think that tops out at 64GB, though.

EDIT: According to https://www.kingston.com/us/memory-cards/indu … icrosd-uhs-i-u3 , those cards are rated for 30000 Program/Erase cycles . That should definitely survive with a swapfile for a little while . 😉

I tried and apparently succeeded in setting drive capacity of a 250GB Samsung 860 EVO to 128GB using [1] and unplugging/plugging the drive in a USB enclosure (apparently not recommended to use one of those) . Drive capacity went from [2] to [3] . I was also able to reverse the operation by setting sectors back to 488397168 and then redo it .

Unfortunately, I can't test this in my 4010CDT, as all the IDE to SATA adapters physically won't fit into the drive bay. I could work around this by using a 44-pin male to female IDE cable, but that would cost me about 30 CAN$ or more for a quick delivery or 20ish CAN$ if ordering with an expected arrival date some time in May . Neither of those options is very enticing for the moment .

I was, however, able to test a Max Endurance Sandisk 128GB card . First, here is a test in my Windows 10 PC's integrated SD card reader [4] .
And here are some test results in my Toshiba 4010CDT when running through an FC1307 based MicroSDXC to IDE adapter in CrystalDiskMark [5] and ATTO [6] .

[1]

1sudo hdparm --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing  -Np268435456  /dev/sdb

root@bob-VirtualBox:~# hdparm -g /dev/sdb

[2]

1/dev/sdb:
2 geometry      = 30401/255/63, sectors = 488397168, start = 0

[3]

1root@bob-VirtualBox:~# hdparm -g /dev/sdb
2
3/dev/sdb:
4 geometry      = 16709/255/63, sectors = 268435456, start = 0

[4]

[5]

[6]

EDIT: Fixed a typo

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-10, 07:32:

SDD doesnt have an issue being set to a smaller size via partitions, it is actually a great idea as it leaves the provisioned space for the drives garbage collection to use, I'm not sure SSDs use DCO and use DFA(HPA) instead, but it might be something worth looking into and now that you have asked the question I find myself curious and I do have a few SSD drives that could be sacrificed to find out. (Turns out Sata based SSDs do indeed use DCO with HPA, found a Linux article about checking the DCO)

Is it possible to shrink a 256GB SSD and use it on a board that has a 137GB limit?
That question is going in my head for some time, but I don't have an adapter yet to try it.

Yes via partitioning, it'll then behave just like a 128gb SSD once formatted but .. its easier and cheaper to just grab a 128gb SSD to start with ...unless you already have a spare 256gb ..but then you could just partition it into two drives and it would also work. I think DOS would only see one drive however since its limited to 137gb but windows 98se/XP should see both drives.

I could be wrong about DOS not seeing both drives, its been a while since I've done the dual partition thing on a PC with "hard" drive size limits.

This seems link an interesting option too .

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2025873852/sams … -years-straight

16 years with sustained speeds of 3.25 MB/s

LMAO. Marketing bullshit at it's worst.

The main problem of NAND flash is wear leveling, i.e. uneven cell resource exhaustion, which is common for stuff like Windows XP OS. SD cards, certified for slow linear writes, won't help that.

darry,
simple question,
would the PCB of the 250GB Samsung 860 EVO , when taken out of the enclosure, together with a sata2ide adapter fit in the 4010CDT ?

also, there are msata to laptop ide adapters available as well. given there's plenty of 32GB msata drives out in the wild, might be another option.

weedeewee wrote:

would the PCB of the 250GB Samsung 860 EVO , when taken out of the enclosure, together with a sata2ide adapter fit in the 4010CDT ?

Should be fine. Small capacity EVOs are using one 3D NAND chip with very small PCB.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-05-04, 20:00:

16 years with sustained speeds of 3.25 MB/s

LMAO. Marketing bullshit at it's worst.

The main problem of NAND flash is wear leveling, i.e. uneven cell resource exhaustion, which is common for stuff like Windows XP OS. SD cards, certified for slow linear writes, won't help that.

These cards may be marketed for use in slow linear write scenarios, but they are actually much faster than 26 Mbps (3.25 MBPS) in linear write performance and are still faster than a "period correct" HDD in both random and sequential write performance, even when used with a cheap FC1307 (I shared some benchmarks). The NAND in these is rated for a given number of P/E cycles, the marketing (16 years of continuous writing at 3.25MBPS) just translates this into a specific use case, which does not mean that other uses cases are impossible. Also, once DOS or Windows 9x and software are installed, there isn't going to be all that much writing occurring anyway. XP is a different use case and I would not want to be running it on any storage based of an FC1307 to begin with for obvious performance reasons.

Additionally, I don't see why the SD controller's integrated wear levelling functionality (AFAIU, all SD controllers have some and I would expect it has gotten better over the years) would not be effective in random (or more accurately in this case mixed random and sequential) write scenarios . Please share your insight on this .

One final advantage I see with a microSD card in an FC1307 based adapter is that actually fits onto the 44-pin IDE connector in my 4010CDT notebook. I would gladly have used a SATA SSD with an IDE converter, but all the ones I have seen would not fit unless used with a 44-pin IDC ribbon extension. These are surprisingly expensive and hard to find ( in the right pitch) in my neck of the woods .

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-05-04, 20:28:

weedeewee wrote:

would the PCB of the 250GB Samsung 860 EVO , when taken out of the enclosure, together with a sata2ide adapter fit in the 4010CDT ?

Should be fine. Small capacity EVOs are using one 3D NAND chip with very small PCB.

No it won't, at least not the ones I have tried . The problem is not the SATA SSD or its casing, it is the adapters themselves that are too big (because of the way the 44-pin connector is oriented on the adapter) for the clearance between the 4010CDT's 44-pin IDE connector and the ceiling of the drive bay .

Please let me know if an adapter that fits exists and I have just not stumbled upon it yet

EDIT : This one looks like it should fit, maybe even without removing the SSD casing . https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B074VPQK5X/ Sorry, I ordered the last one, so I will know if it works in 4 to 6 weeks . Even this one would not have been a potential option for the 4010CDT if the 44-pin connector was oriented in such a way that the key pin was on the other side .

darry wrote on 2022-05-04, 20:58:

Also, once DOS or Windows 9x and software are installed, there isn't going to be all that much writing occurring anyway.

dos, yes, unless you want the nostalgia of regularly defragmenting your hard drive.
windows 9x and higher are horrible due to swapfile and registry file

weedeewee wrote on 2022-05-04, 20:26:

darry, simple question, would the PCB of the 250GB Samsung 860 EVO , when taken out of the enclosure, together with a sata2ide […]
Show full quote

darry,
simple question,
would the PCB of the 250GB Samsung 860 EVO , when taken out of the enclosure, together with a sata2ide adapter fit in the 4010CDT ?

also, there are msata to laptop ide adapters available as well. given there's plenty of 32GB msata drives out in the wild, might be another option.

I though about MSATA as well, but I mostly see ads for brands that don't sound too inspiring and without many (or sometimes any) specs given. Otherwise, the MSATA drives from established brands with specs are often out of stock , on back order or unreasonably expensive (MSATA is not exactly all that popular anymore).

weedeewee wrote on 2022-05-04, 21:05:

darry wrote on 2022-05-04, 20:58:

Also, once DOS or Windows 9x and software are installed, there isn't going to be all that much writing occurring anyway.

dos, yes, unless you want the nostalgia of regularly defragmenting your hard drive.
windows 9x and higher are horrible due to swapfile and registry file

SWAP file can be disabled and registry won't change that much once games are installed and in use .

That being said, even with a microSD card on an FC1307, it is still much faster than the 4.3GB 3600RPM drive that came in my 4010CDT .

EDIT : If fragmentation is ever a concern, backing up and restoring that easily removable microSD card on a modern PC can be done quickly and effectively.

darry wrote:

Additionally, I don't see why the SD controller's integrated wear levelling functionality (AFAIU, all SD controllers have some and I would expect it has gotten better over the years) would not be effective in random (or more accurately in this case mixed random and sequential) write scenarios .

They are effective to some degree, yes. It's just that specific SD won't be any better than others, which are not rated for continuous linear write or other marketing shenanigans.
But that industrial grade SD from Kingston is basically just SLC flash (or TLC converted to SLC) and should be very robust for Windows 9x.