aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 15:57:

why take chance that the thing will blow up an ruin perfectly good retro hardware.

bEcAuSe iT's pArT oF tHe rEtRo eXpErIeNcE! 🤣 🤣 🤣

waterbeesje wrote on 2022-03-29, 14:45:

Seems to can join the team here 😀
I've got this one unit that weighs about minus-30 grams, has a big sticker "350W PSU" (no brand or characteristics), another sticker "CE" (China export?), a third sticker "quality ok". And inside it has no filters and a tiny razor-like thin heat sink. It seems to provide ok voltages with 100W load though... Buy i wouldn't connect anything valuable to it.

It's a shame. Can't even use those gutless wonders as door stoppers because they are too light 😂

rmay635703 wrote on 2022-03-29, 15:17:

Remember back in the day when 90% of PSUs in the Cream and Beige boxes were 250 watts NO MATTER WHAT? […]
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Remember back in the day when 90% of PSUs in the Cream and Beige boxes were 250 watts NO MATTER WHAT?

Everything from the gov liquidation 486dx2->PPRO180 I pick up had some sort of 250watt supply, ATX or AT didn’t matter, always 250 watts.

Some of those supplies I used with Duron systems and only once did I have a fireball come out the back (when the system was shut off just sitting there)

Those were the days.

The PSUs I saw roughly the most were 200W in AT cases (only seldomly did I see another value for an AT tower containing a 486 or a Pentium), for ATX veeeery occasionally 200W, but it tended to be 235W (Pentium 2 and sometimes Pentium 3), 250W (Pentium 3 and sometimes early Athlons) or 300W (Athlon XP). Can't really remember Pentium 4, either these were non-standard (Dell etc) or these had already had their PSU replaced by a newer one that didn't originally come with the system.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:10:

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 15:57:

why take chance that the thing will blow up an ruin perfectly good retro hardware.

bEcAuSe iT's pArT oF tHe rEtRo eXpErIeNcE! 🤣 🤣 🤣

not worth it when some of the stuff cost more now then it did was it new. better just get a good seasonic psu or any the other good brands.

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 15:57:

imo unless your building an athlon system needs a crazy high 3.3/5v rail or doing something that is isa that actually needs a -5v there is just no reason to us old psus or even more so ones that were awful back in the day when they were new. why take chance that the thing will blow up an ruin perfectly good retro hardware.

I'd never use an awful PSU, not even back then.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-29, 14:32:

I plan to keep the PSUs that have certain characteristic's like huge +5v rails (30+ amps) or really good +12v rails or even older PSUs that have a single large +12v rail, bog standard ones get thrown into the spares pile. Mind you I also tend to be picky about which ones I do keep for use, some chineseium ones are simply not worth the risk no matter how good their specs might be.

This is definitely a good reason to consider using such a PSU.
But tbf, as long as the PSU isn't more unsafe compared to how (un)safe it was back when it was new, I see little reason to avoid such PSUs now. I mean the PSUs of back then were not of the same build standards of nowadays, but I always found PSUs rather safe provided you knew what you were doing.
Except for the crappy ones I think this should at least be considered before condemning any certain older unit.

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:10:

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 15:57:

why take chance that the thing will blow up an ruin perfectly good retro hardware.

bEcAuSe iT's pArT oF tHe rEtRo eXpErIeNcE! 🤣 🤣 🤣

How is this part of the retro experience?

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:35:

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:10:

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 15:57:

why take chance that the thing will blow up an ruin perfectly good retro hardware.

bEcAuSe iT's pArT oF tHe rEtRo eXpErIeNcE! 🤣 🤣 🤣

How is this part of the retro experience?

i seen a few youtubers build systems out of all new in box stuff and they did it full ocd were every part had to be period correct both of them had psus that went boom as soon as they were plugged in. i'm all for using period correct stuff when it comes to cpus and gpus. but a psu makes 0 dif to 99% of systems a new psu will not make the system work any dif then a period correct one and a new one has a lot less chance of blowing up and take out expensive stuff.

At this point I have lost count of how many times this subject has come up.

I prefer using a good quality period-accurate power supply that I can get for almost nothing rather than spending $$$ on a new 500W Corsair-whatever monster just to power an AT build that needs like 50W of actual power.

If the power supply needs refurbishing, a new fan and caps will do the trick for very little money.

Newer power supplies can also be awkward to mount on old little cramped AT cases due to the position of the fan (which can end up pointing upwards, with little room for air), and I might add that the black color makes them look awful in old cases.

So yeah, there are many reasons why I prefer period-accurate power supplies in most cases, other than the "retro experience".

By the way, where do people that talk about old power supplies "exploding and take your components with them" get their info from? Is it because some YouTuber said it or do you actually know the types of failure a PSU can have? If a power supply is reasonably well designed (no matter how old or new) it can die but it isn't going to kill anything else. This was mostly a problem with a design issue on some ATX power supplies, where the +5VSB would go rogue killing the motherboard and/or memory modules, but it is a very specific issue other than the unit being "old".

I give you that newer (good) PSUs have tighter regulation, but that's due to the stricter requirements of modern hardware. Old 5V stuff is way less sensitive to this.

Here's another one, I got it recently in one Athlon XP configuration. It powers on, but I did only a dry run. I don't actually trust it 😅. They've been known to burst in flame when new, let alone now 20 years later 😁.
Also, feather light category. Modern crappy power supplies are at least three times the weight 😁.

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-03-29, 17:54:

At this point I have lost count of how many times this subject has come up. […]
Show full quote

At this point I have lost count of how many times this subject has come up.

I prefer using a good quality period-accurate power supply that I can get for almost nothing rather than spending $$$ on a new 500W Corsair-whatever monster just to power an AT build that needs like 50W of actual power.

If the power supply needs refurbishing, a new fan and caps will do the trick for very little money.

Newer power supplies can also be awkward to mount on old little cramped AT cases due to the position of the fan (which can end up pointing upwards, with little room for air), and I might add that the black color makes them look awful in old cases.

So yeah, there are many reasons why I prefer period-accurate power supplies in most cases, other than the "retro experience".

By the way, where do people that talk about old power supplies "exploding and take your components with them" get their info from? Is it because some YouTuber said it or do you actually know the types of failure a PSU can have? If a power supply is reasonably well designed (no matter how old or new) it can die but it isn't going to kill anything else. This was mostly a problem with a design issue on some ATX power supplies, where the +5VSB would go rogue killing the motherboard and/or memory modules, but it is a very specific issue other than the unit being "old".

I give you that newer (good) PSUs have tighter regulation, but that's due to the stricter requirements of modern hardware. Old 5V stuff is way less sensitive to this.

That is fine if you have option to get quality period correct PSU to refurb. Here in Croatia it's difficult to find period correct PSUs, let alone quality ones. Back in the day I used one like in post above because there weren't any other available. Alternative was JNC which was the same crap 😁. And I knew few people back in the day that had their Codegens and JNCs go up in flames.

But problem with modern PSU fans is true. Happened to me the other day. Case is period correct and PSUs of that period had 8 cm fans on the back so could be installed only one way. And if you install modern PSU it's fan end pointing up. which isn't good because there isn't and ventilation up there 😁. Plus power cable socket and switch were in the way even if there were holes on the case to install it this way.

But having a 3d printer is very useful with this hobby. So I made simple bracket to install PSU with fan on the bottom.

And voila no more problems 😀

You'll laugh, but Codegens are actually the less crappier section of the cheap PSUs. I've seen horribly gutless stuff that made Codegens look absolutely high-end tier in comparision.

Radical Vision wrote on 2022-03-29, 14:28:

Pick your poison... […]
Show full quote

Pick your poison...

(dont mind the bended PC case, it was alot more bended, the guy said that wardrobe fell on the computer 😳 jesus...)
Good that damn wardrobe did not trash the computer, as inside was Gigabyte BX2000, Working without bad sectors Quantum Fireball 10GB and Pentium II 450MHz.

I never use any of these garbage PSUs, as they are good only to stuff them with some explosive firecrackers and blow them up...

I have at least a dozen of those JNC/Deer PSUs, and at least 3 cases from them. Almost all use ANS or anything that has and LC model number, except the last one which is AT and has had its internals replaced (the original gutless JNC had stopped supplying 12v, despite powering on still.) with a less fire-hazard of a PSU.

The key to these is just average experience with transistors, heatsink thickness, and knowing what transformers do fit. I've rebuilt about 5 or 6 units. Most are safe 250 watters and I think I have some 300-350 watters done as well. (even though most of the labels either state 350W, 400W or even 450W.) The most pimped one though (an Allied SL-8500BTX w/ 12cm fan), runs a i3 540 and a R7 265 (HD7850) with getting slightly warm.

It never occurred to me to turn the unit upside down. Now screw holes align, as well as ac receptacle and case cutout. But it doesn't look right. It looks all fugly.

These old PSUs are so shit... They are all like 150-200W real power, but they put labeles on them 250W (that is fine too) but 300W, 350, 400, 500W LMAO....
But yeah back in these days you buy a PC, and at some point the whole system may blow up, and you "win" new PC.. Some times only the PSU will blow up and that is the best case scenario. But some time the damn thing will blow up and destroy everything, some times only couple of parts. Damn crappy PSUs that the chinese god of PSUs made with some insane labeling and rewiring or god knows how...

PcBytes wrote on 2022-03-29, 18:58:

You'll laugh, but Codegens are actually the less crappier section of the cheap PSUs. I've seen horribly gutless stuff that made […]
Show full quote

You'll laugh, but Codegens are actually the less crappier section of the cheap PSUs. I've seen horribly gutless stuff that made Codegens look absolutely high-end tier in comparision.

Radical Vision wrote on 2022-03-29, 14:28:

Pick your poison... […]
Show full quote

Pick your poison...

(dont mind the bended PC case, it was alot more bended, the guy said that wardrobe fell on the computer 😳 jesus...)
Good that damn wardrobe did not trash the computer, as inside was Gigabyte BX2000, Working without bad sectors Quantum Fireball 10GB and Pentium II 450MHz.

I never use any of these garbage PSUs, as they are good only to stuff them with some explosive firecrackers and blow them up...

I have at least a dozen of those JNC/Deer PSUs, and at least 3 cases from them. Almost all use ANS or anything that has and LC model number, except the last one which is AT and has had its internals replaced (the original gutless JNC had stopped supplying 12v, despite powering on still.) with a less fire-hazard of a PSU.

The key to these is just average experience with transistors, heatsink thickness, and knowing what transformers do fit. I've rebuilt about 5 or 6 units. Most are safe 250 watters and I think I have some 300-350 watters done as well. (even though most of the labels either state 350W, 400W or even 450W.) The most pimped one though (an Allied SL-8500BTX w/ 12cm fan), runs a i3 540 and a R7 265 (HD7850) with getting slightly warm.

Dont know why someone will spend time, money, effort and whatever into these piece of garbage, instead of getting some descend Seasonic, Delta, Fortron or whatever... These PSUs are good only to take one and leave it in ur basement just for the sake of having one, and look it from time to time, when you have work in the basement... Or if they are too many stick some dynamite in one and blow the damn thing...
Now if you are doing this for the sake of fixing one crap PSU and making it to work sure.. But still everything is garbage on them, even the wires, the fan, the damn metal casing even is just cheap and bad....

I put it on the scale. I also took a photo of the innards. Do you have one that weighs even less?

Solo761 wrote on 2022-03-29, 18:12:

Here's another one, I got it recently in one Athlon XP configuration. It powers on, but I did only a dry run. I don't actually trust it 😅. They've been known to burst in flame when new, let alone now 20 years later 😁.
Also, feather light category. Modern crappy power supplies are at least three times the weight 😁.

PSU.JPG

Codegen is garbage too, BUT see it that way compared to KME, OEM, JNC, FOX power, Mouse PSU and other bs Codegen is like Mercedes when compared to the other ones... Still just dont use any of these...

They are good only for low powered socket 370 systems, slot 1, and more then fine for socket 8, socket 7 and older things...

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-03-29, 19:13:

I put it on the scale. I also took a photo of the innards. Do you have one that weighs even less?

Oyyy YES believe me i have seen a PSU SO BAD it was light AF, and the casing was even more thin then most units out there and it was even smaller too total garbage... I dont own that "thing" anymore so cant measure it, BUT it was the lightest PSU i have ever saw.....

Some more garbage...

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 17:08:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:35:

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:10:

bEcAuSe iT's pArT oF tHe rEtRo eXpErIeNcE! 🤣 🤣 🤣

How is this part of the retro experience?

i seen a few youtubers build systems out of all new in box stuff and they did it full ocd were every part had to be period correct both of them had psus that went boom as soon as they were plugged in. i'm all for using period correct stuff when it comes to cpus and gpus. but a psu makes 0 dif to 99% of systems a new psu will not make the system work any dif then a period correct one and a new one has a lot less chance of blowing up and take out expensive stuff.

I've seen a few that just tried some PSUs and basically tried them blindly. They should have known the risks and they either take the risk or they don't know what they are doing. Checking the innards of a soon-to-be-used PSU is the least you should do, if only to make sure everything is in right order (no burnt or leaky stuff). I do the same with every part, give it a visual inspection.

Applying power to retro parts without checking first is like drinking milk straight out of the carton without first checking the expiry date or without smelling it first.

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-03-29, 17:54:

At this point I have lost count of how many times this subject has come up. […]
Show full quote

At this point I have lost count of how many times this subject has come up.

I prefer using a good quality period-accurate power supply that I can get for almost nothing rather than spending $$$ on a new 500W Corsair-whatever monster just to power an AT build that needs like 50W of actual power.

If the power supply needs refurbishing, a new fan and caps will do the trick for very little money.

Newer power supplies can also be awkward to mount on old little cramped AT cases due to the position of the fan (which can end up pointing upwards, with little room for air), and I might add that the black color makes them look awful in old cases.

So yeah, there are many reasons why I prefer period-accurate power supplies in most cases, other than the "retro experience".

By the way, where do people that talk about old power supplies "exploding and take your components with them" get their info from? Is it because some YouTuber said it or do you actually know the types of failure a PSU can have? If a power supply is reasonably well designed (no matter how old or new) it can die but it isn't going to kill anything else. This was mostly a problem with a design issue on some ATX power supplies, where the +5VSB would go rogue killing the motherboard and/or memory modules, but it is a very specific issue other than the unit being "old".

I give you that newer (good) PSUs have tighter regulation, but that's due to the stricter requirements of modern hardware. Old 5V stuff is way less sensitive to this.

This is basically how I see it.

And people who say something along the lines of "These old (insert targeted retro part here) are so shit, peeeeeriod" generally don't know what they are talking about.

It's not just black and white, which ironically is kind of a general thing when it comes to retro computers and retro gaming. There's lots of shades of grey.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:09:

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 17:08:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-29, 16:35:

How is this part of the retro experience?

i seen a few youtubers build systems out of all new in box stuff and they did it full ocd were every part had to be period correct both of them had psus that went boom as soon as they were plugged in. i'm all for using period correct stuff when it comes to cpus and gpus. but a psu makes 0 dif to 99% of systems a new psu will not make the system work any dif then a period correct one and a new one has a lot less chance of blowing up and take out expensive stuff.

I've seen a few that just tried some PSUs and basically tried them blindly. They should have known the risks and they either take the risk or they don't know what they are doing. Checking the innards of a soon-to-be-used PSU is the least you should do, if only to make sure everything is in right order (no burnt or leaky stuff). I do the same with every part, give it a visual inspection.

Applying power to retro parts without checking first is like drinking milk straight out of the carton without first checking the expiry date or without smelling it first.

I've killed for less then that. And perhaps you should be considerate of other nations that don't have the luxury of milk cartons. Like Canada, where their milk comes in a sack (no not the cow's sack sheesh!).

chris2021 wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:37:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-29, 20:09:

aaron158 wrote on 2022-03-29, 17:08:

i seen a few youtubers build systems out of all new in box stuff and they did it full ocd were every part had to be period correct both of them had psus that went boom as soon as they were plugged in. i'm all for using period correct stuff when it comes to cpus and gpus. but a psu makes 0 dif to 99% of systems a new psu will not make the system work any dif then a period correct one and a new one has a lot less chance of blowing up and take out expensive stuff.

I've seen a few that just tried some PSUs and basically tried them blindly. They should have known the risks and they either take the risk or they don't know what they are doing. Checking the innards of a soon-to-be-used PSU is the least you should do, if only to make sure everything is in right order (no burnt or leaky stuff). I do the same with every part, give it a visual inspection.

Applying power to retro parts without checking first is like drinking milk straight out of the carton without first checking the expiry date or without smelling it first.

I've killed for less then that. And perhaps you should be considerate of other nations that don't have the luxury of milk cartons. Like Canada, where their milk comes in a sack (no not the cow's sack sheesh!).

actually we have both if your buying 2L or less it comes in a carton only 4L comes in bags. plus the expiry date is on the bag