Challenger never should of launched on the day it did. The pad and shuttle were covered in ice as the temps were below freezing and the o-rings in the solids were far below their minimum operating temperatures. They should of pushed that launch back untill they had proper weather. With Columbia we saw the foam strike on the leading edge of the wing and we also knew how brittle the carbon-carbon heat shield tiles are. The shuttle program managers didn't allow the astronauts to do an Eva and inspect the heat shield. The program managers figured it was fine as foam strikes on the heat shield were common occurrences. If they were allowed to inspect the tiles and saw the damage they could of either tried to do some sort of repair or even safe Havened at the ISS and then fast tracked another shuttle to pick them up and then had the damaged Columbia fly home autonomously. But no they just pushed on with the mission and got the crew killed.

So I'm sorry their are no comparable lines between the Falcon 9 and dragon programs and their reuse and how the shuttle program was run. Falcon 9 is the most flown rocket in human history and yes it's had two failures in its past but those are not the current Block 5 variant. The Falcon 9/Heavy Block 5 has had no failures to date. All your doing is discrediting the work of thousands of SpaceX employees because you hate one man.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2022-05-20, 08:24:

I refuse to set foot in a self driving EV, especially if it's sold by snake oil salesman Elon Musk. Everything that guy is involved in is not all that innovative or an outright scam. Only the technologically ignorant think that guy is the second coming of Steve Jabs (another overrated con artist). So I guess that was another nice part about the 90s...we didn't have to see Elon's ugly mug in the news every morning. Unlike a lot of people, I don't dislike him for political reasons. I just think he's a self serving-jerk. I guess in the 90's Bill Gates was the guy to hate. I guess I still hate him too, but these days he's not really involved much at Micro$hit craporation.

Dude, I've much appreciated you clear words on internet censorshit, but let's tune it down on the general edgelordery a bit?

Steve Jobs was a very gifted bible salesman and since he's dead and all, it probably wasn't his fault that fanboys kept mistaking him for Jesus Christ.
And if he really had that design idea stated in Bruninho's weird sig, then Apple Inc. has entirely abondoned that in favor of flashy looks, skimming off profits with proprietary BS and overall crimes against tech and sustainability.
Jeff Bezos is a glorified huckster who's sole purpose in the universe is to demonstrate the severe shortcomings of capitalism.
Bill Gates, anything appropriate to say about him would be subject to legal action in this country and he has better lawyers.
(Excluding the outlandish stuff about vaccines, globalism and other crypto antisemitic cospiracy idiocy, of course.)

Elon Musk, well, I don't follow his spaceX and starlink endevours too closely.
But by mere impact, yes, there have been money transfers before paypal and electric cars for sure. And he didn't even develop the first roadster. But, to claim he's not innovative - that's just pushing the meaning of that word.
I remember doing ebay with bank transfers on paper sheets.
And after watching the German car industry scramble in vain for a decade now - producing a truly competitive electric car is not trivial. Government handouts included, not many would have pulled that one off.
Fun fact: To laugh at or dismiss Elon Musks freakish off-duty assclownery like covid politics or buying twitter - you really don't need to call his professional achievements in question.
On the contrary, denigrating billion dollar success will only make you sound petty and vulgar.
While in reality, all that political or private bullshit shows that Musk, with all his Bond-villain-like scope, is merely another smart ape.
And the main problem is other people taking his every brain fart for gospel, like authoritarian minded idiots keep misquoting Einstein for anything including family values.
Musk probably has above average cerebral metabolism, he's entitled to the occasional flatulence. Just take it for what it is.

Berlin has had some first hand experience of Musk's ego when he smilingly dismissed any concern about his new factory's water use because there still are some green leaves around - in the middle of a serious four year drought in this part of Germany. Still believe that his cars kill fewer people than the oil burning alternative, but that was something to behold.

Autonomous cars: I hate real world driving in a city and never owned a car, but the prospect of autonomous driving scares me in a way that I contemplate getting a car merely for the few years we'll still be allowed to drive them ourselves. Then again, I have the self reflection to admit that given my average state of attention, concentration, focus - I'm probably the single reason if one day, we can't.
Future + humanity - not Musk's fault. He did not invent MaaS nor could he prevent it.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-22, 07:31:

Politics is the exact reason NASA will always be boned in regards to both funding and actually getting anything done in a timely […]
Show full quote

Politics is the exact reason NASA will always be boned in regards to both funding and actually getting anything done in a timely manner, the government has an ulterior motive in keeping the human race bound to the planet ..control. Shit we should have been on Mars already and have stations on the moon but politics has pretty much made sure that wont be occurring anytime soon. So while I agree that Musk and his ilk are arrogant ego drive assclowns they dont have to deal with politics holding them back and they are likely to be the ones moving us the fuck off this rock.

Its only a matter of time before we face the same fate the Dinosaurs did.

I personally would feel much better if humanity had a way out of such a situation or at the very least didn't have all its eggs trapped on one planet, for the first time in our history we actually have the technology and know how to leave Earth and live off world . .so the question is why the fuck are we still here and not out there populating this little solar system.

The answer will involve a large amount of politics.

Edit - I myself would happily buy a one way ticket to live on Mars, to be one of the first settlers there .. man that would be both terrifying and exciting.

I hope you are aware that "space colonization" and "dinosaur scenario on earth" are two entirely non-overlapping magisteria?

The one is a thought experiment on an Asimovian scale, closer to the generation ship than to present reality. Musk is a professional optimist, but I have it on good authority that even a manned exploratory mission to Mars is likely a "not in our lifetime" prospect. Or, I enjoyed watching "The Expanse" as much as the next nerd and I guess it has been praised for some realism. But that is set 300 years in the future and can we agree that space dwelling as depicted there doesn't look like the most desirable state of affairs?

Meanwhile, we're facing a very real and rather immediate extinction event here on Earth in conjunction with a 200 year orgy after discovering grandma's champagne stash and learning how to uncork it. Now all the booze starts killing us off and no one wants to admit they're late to the party and we'll have to start cleaning up the place before daddy reality comes home.

So, sorry, but if you really conflate the one with the other, you need to do some homework. If not, please be aware that casually discussing it will lead simpler minds to at least subconsciously dismiss the situation at hand for some vague "planet B" escape which physics can't really provide.
In general - NASA, SpaceX or the Taliban - research is not a cigarette vending machine.
Not a scientific or original take, but funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrGFEW2Hb2g

I'm nostalgic for the time when my peers and I considered ourselves too young for nostalgia...

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-22, 15:12:

Dude, I've much appreciated you clear words on internet censorshit, but let's tune it down on the general edgelordery a bit? […]
Show full quote

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2022-05-20, 08:24:

I refuse to set foot in a self driving EV, especially if it's sold by snake oil salesman Elon Musk. Everything that guy is involved in is not all that innovative or an outright scam. Only the technologically ignorant think that guy is the second coming of Steve Jabs (another overrated con artist). So I guess that was another nice part about the 90s...we didn't have to see Elon's ugly mug in the news every morning. Unlike a lot of people, I don't dislike him for political reasons. I just think he's a self serving-jerk. I guess in the 90's Bill Gates was the guy to hate. I guess I still hate him too, but these days he's not really involved much at Micro$hit craporation.

Dude, I've much appreciated you clear words on internet censorshit, but let's tune it down on the general edgelordery a bit?

Steve Jobs was a very gifted bible salesman and since he's dead and all, it probably wasn't his fault that fanboys kept mistaking him for Jesus Christ.
And if he really had that design idea stated in Bruninho's weird sig, then Apple Inc. has entirely abondoned that in favor of flashy looks, skimming off profits with proprietary BS and overall crimes against tech and sustainability.
Jeff Bezos is a glorified huckster who's sole purpose in the universe is to demonstrate the severe shortcomings of capitalism.
Bill Gates, anything appropriate to say about him would be subject to legal action in this country and he has better lawyers.
(Excluding the outlandish stuff about vaccines, globalism and other crypto antisemitic cospiracy idiocy, of course.)

Elon Musk, well, I don't follow his spaceX and starlink endevours too closely.
But by mere impact, yes, there have been money transfers before paypal and electric cars for sure. And he didn't even develop the first roadster. But, to claim he's not innovative - that's just pushing the meaning of that word.
I remember doing ebay with bank transfers on paper sheets.
And after watching the German car industry scramble in vain for a decade now - producing a truly competitive electric car is not trivial. Government handouts included, not many would have pulled that one off.
Fun fact: To laugh at or dismiss Elon Musks freakish off-duty assclownery like covid politics or buying twitter - you really don't need to call his professional achievements in question.
On the contrary, denigrating billion dollar success will only make you sound petty and vulgar.
While in reality, all that political or private bullshit shows that Musk, with all his Bond-villain-like scope, is merely another smart ape.
And the main problem is other people taking his every brain fart for gospel, like authoritarian minded idiots keep misquoting Einstein for anything including family values.
Musk probably has above average cerebral metabolism, he's entitled to the occasional flatulence. Just take it for what it is.

Berlin has had some first hand experience of Musk's ego when he smilingly dismissed any concern about his new factory's water use because there still are some green leaves around - in the middle of a serious four year drought in this part of Germany. Still believe that his cars kill fewer people than the oil burning alternative, but that was something to behold.

Autonomous cars: I hate real world driving in a city and never owned a car, but the prospect of autonomous driving scares me in a way that I contemplate getting a car merely for the few years we'll still be allowed to drive them ourselves. Then again, I have the self reflection to admit that given my average state of attention, concentration, focus - I'm probably the single reason if one day, we can't.
Future + humanity - not Musk's fault. He did not invent MaaS nor could he prevent it.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-22, 07:31:

Politics is the exact reason NASA will always be boned in regards to both funding and actually getting anything done in a timely […]
Show full quote

Politics is the exact reason NASA will always be boned in regards to both funding and actually getting anything done in a timely manner, the government has an ulterior motive in keeping the human race bound to the planet ..control. Shit we should have been on Mars already and have stations on the moon but politics has pretty much made sure that wont be occurring anytime soon. So while I agree that Musk and his ilk are arrogant ego drive assclowns they dont have to deal with politics holding them back and they are likely to be the ones moving us the fuck off this rock.

Its only a matter of time before we face the same fate the Dinosaurs did.

I personally would feel much better if humanity had a way out of such a situation or at the very least didn't have all its eggs trapped on one planet, for the first time in our history we actually have the technology and know how to leave Earth and live off world . .so the question is why the fuck are we still here and not out there populating this little solar system.

The answer will involve a large amount of politics.

Edit - I myself would happily buy a one way ticket to live on Mars, to be one of the first settlers there .. man that would be both terrifying and exciting.

I hope you are aware that "space colonization" and "dinosaur scenario on earth" are two entirely non-overlapping magisteria?

The one is a thought experiment on an Asimovian scale, closer to the generation ship than to present reality. Musk is a professional optimist, but I have it on good authority that even a manned exploratory mission to Mars is likely a "not in our lifetime" prospect. Or, I enjoyed watching "The Expanse" as much as the next nerd and I guess it has been praised for some realism. But that is set 300 years in the future and can we agree that space dwelling as depicted there doesn't look like the most desirable state of affairs?

Meanwhile, we're facing a very real and rather immediate extinction event here on Earth in conjunction with a 200 year orgy after discovering grandma's champagne stash and learning how to uncork it. Now all the booze starts killing us off and no one wants to admit they're late to the party and we'll have to start cleaning up the place before daddy reality comes home.

So, sorry, but if you really conflate the one with the other, you need to do some homework. If not, please be aware that casually discussing it will lead simpler minds to at least subconsciously dismiss the situation at hand for some vague "planet B" escape which physics can't really provide.
In general - NASA, SpaceX or the Taliban - research is not a cigarette vending machine.
Not a scientific or original take, but funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrGFEW2Hb2g

I'm nostalgic for the time when my peers and I considered ourselves too young for nostalgia...

They thought that going to the moon and stepping foot on it was a "not in our lifetime" event too so I refuse to ever believe that our dumb arses cannot pull that shit off in the next 50 years and step foot on Mars, arrogant ego driven people have just the right attitude to do such a thing and human history proves that such people tend to be the ones that force us apes to get off our butts and make it happen.

As for space dwelling, im fully aware that it wont be the Hilton and that it'll likely be like living in the Sahara but Humans do that already, the only thing stopping us apes from having that escape plan .. is us.

But hey comfortable easy living might not be a thing for much longer here on Earth thanks to us Apes being stupid so we wont have to go to Mars to experience that, I also think we are well beyond the point where cleaning up the mess is going to actually help.

The earth in a nuclear winter is still more inhabitable than Mars

That is why any extended visit to Mars will be challenging without lots of external resources dropped

The first bases on the moon and Mars will not be easy living. It'll be alot of hard and quite dangerous work establishing the bases and getting everything setup. Anyone who thinks that they can just walk out of their landing craft and have an easy carefree life on the Moon or Mars will be sadly mistaken.

It would be extremely difficult to make Mars habitable. Not only does it have a basically disfunctioning magnetosphere (so solar radiation will for instance strip the planet of any atmosphere we may build, it's lower gravity will make it harder for us to stay there (something with bone density etc) and the lack of plate tectonics will basically make a water cycle (and I'm talking about the climate control water cycle in which the earth absorbs and releases water from the earth crust) non-existent which will make it much harder to stabilize any atmosphere we may end up building there.

Then there's the low amount of solar radiation so plants will have a much harder time to photosynthesize due to the lack of photons on Mars.

At least Mars has going for it that the low gravity would make it easier to reach escape velocity and its current rotation speed is at least very similar to Earth's.

Of course we could make due without an atmosphere, but a lifelong life living within a domed habitat wouldn't exactly be my idea of a nice and free life.

I think people are getting the wrong idea here, I know it'll be damn hard to live on Mars but for the people who want the challenges and danger and are are willing to accept the risks I think there could be no greater adventure than to be one of the first there to pave that road for the ones who come later. I'm not talking about terraforming here, that sort of venture would require hundreds of years if not thousands and as a species we dont have the tech for that right now, but getting to Mars and setting up a colony there is within our capability.

Mars might seem like a barren inhospitable world but it does have a big plus over other places like the moon for example and thats water, there is quite a lot of Ice on Mars so of all the place to setup a colony Mars wouldn't be a terrible place to start.

There's actually quite a lot of water ice in the craters on the south pole of the moon. Me personally would jump at the chance at being in a landing party for either the Moon or Mars. Hell I'd take a week or two on the ISS like the Axiom-1 mission. I personally am looking forward to seeing Axiom's modules added to the ISS as well as seeing the Lunar Gateway station launch and get added to and built on in the coming years.

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-05-23, 01:11:

There's actually quite a lot of water ice in the craters on the south pole of the moon. Me personally would jump at the chance at being in a landing party for either the Moon or Mars. Hell I'd take a week or two on the ISS like the Axiom-1 mission. I personally am looking forward to seeing Axiom's modules added to the ISS as well as seeing the Lunar Gateway station launch and get added to and built on in the coming years.

I didn't know that, I guess that does make the moon a bit easier to throw sticks up on ! since if you have water then you also have Oxygen and Hydrogen which gives you something to breathe and something to burn for energy and water gives you the chance to setup hydroponics.

Water would be a royal pain in the arse to lift into orbit.

Mars's problems (low gravity, distance from sun) don't preclude it from terraforming but there is an alternative - Venus gets plenty of sun, gravity close to Earths. Terraforming seems as much if not a greater challenge but as both seem multi-generational it's not something anyone could see a 'return' on in their lifetime

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-05-22, 23:21:

The first bases on the moon and Mars will not be easy living. It'll be alot of hard and quite dangerous work establishing the bases and getting everything setup. Anyone who thinks that they can just walk out of their landing craft and have an easy carefree life on the Moon or Mars will be sadly mistaken.

whatever walks out and creates the first bases won't be a human i'd guess but AI robots (not sci fi conscious ones, engineering ones). humans may follow at a alter date. assuming this does happen, and there are no actual committed dates and resources for anything yet, it will be decades in the future. What AI robots will be able to do then is certainly well beyond what they can do now, what humans will be may be largely the same bar some genetic modification and digital integrations

and all that assumes that humanity doesn't sink into a decline in the meantime

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-22, 07:31:

Edit - I myself would happily buy a one way ticket to live on Mars, to be one of the first settlers there .. man that would be both terrifying and exciting.

If you could only take one computer from the 70's, 80's or 90's to Mars...? 😀

gerry wrote on 2022-05-23, 07:59:

Mars's problems (low gravity, distance from sun) don't preclude it from terraforming but there is an alternative - Venus gets pl […]
Show full quote

Mars's problems (low gravity, distance from sun) don't preclude it from terraforming but there is an alternative - Venus gets plenty of sun, gravity close to Earths. Terraforming seems as much if not a greater challenge but as both seem multi-generational it's not something anyone could see a 'return' on in their lifetime

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-05-22, 23:21:

The first bases on the moon and Mars will not be easy living. It'll be alot of hard and quite dangerous work establishing the bases and getting everything setup. Anyone who thinks that they can just walk out of their landing craft and have an easy carefree life on the Moon or Mars will be sadly mistaken.

whatever walks out and creates the first bases won't be a human i'd guess but AI robots (not sci fi conscious ones, engineering ones). humans may follow at a alter date. assuming this does happen, and there are no actual committed dates and resources for anything yet, it will be decades in the future. What AI robots will be able to do then is certainly well beyond what they can do now, what humans will be may be largely the same bar some genetic modification and digital integrations

and all that assumes that humanity doesn't sink into a decline in the meantime

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-22, 07:31:

Edit - I myself would happily buy a one way ticket to live on Mars, to be one of the first settlers there .. man that would be both terrifying and exciting.

If you could only take one computer from the 70's, 80's or 90's to Mars...? 😀

Venus would certainly be a challenge, mostly in how to build terraforming equipment that could survive the crazy surface temperatures of Venus along with surviving the acid corrosion. Its not impossible but certainly beyond our current technology, Venus itself is quite an interesting enigma. If I had to choose a retro rig to take with me ...hmm it would be a Coleco Vision with the Atari 2600 module and several hundred games for both.

But yup I get your point, this did go off on a tangent 🤣.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-23, 08:37:

Venus would certainly be a challenge, mostly in how to build terraforming equipment that could survive the crazy surface temperatures of Venus along with surviving the acid corrosion. Its not impossible but certainly beyond our current technology, Venus itself is quite an interesting enigma. If I had to choose a retro rig to take with me ...hmm it would be a Coleco Vision with the Atari 2600 module and several hundred games for both.

But yup I get your point, this did go off on a tangent 🤣.

actually one of the things i miss from the latter half of the 20th century is the kind of optimism about tech and space travel that used to exist broadly. It's now become a niche interest it seems, and with less optimism.

I'd take a 1999 PC with lots of disc space and emulators 😀

gerry wrote on 2022-05-23, 07:59:

Mars's problems (low gravity, distance from sun) don't preclude it from terraforming but there is an alternative - Venus gets pl […]
Show full quote

Mars's problems (low gravity, distance from sun) don't preclude it from terraforming but there is an alternative - Venus gets plenty of sun, gravity close to Earths. Terraforming seems as much if not a greater challenge but as both seem multi-generational it's not something anyone could see a 'return' on in their lifetime

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-05-22, 23:21:

The first bases on the moon and Mars will not be easy living. It'll be alot of hard and quite dangerous work establishing the bases and getting everything setup. Anyone who thinks that they can just walk out of their landing craft and have an easy carefree life on the Moon or Mars will be sadly mistaken.

whatever walks out and creates the first bases won't be a human i'd guess but AI robots (not sci fi conscious ones, engineering ones). humans may follow at a alter date. assuming this does happen, and there are no actual committed dates and resources for anything yet, it will be decades in the future. What AI robots will be able to do then is certainly well beyond what they can do now, what humans will be may be largely the same bar some genetic modification and digital integrations

and all that assumes that humanity doesn't sink into a decline in the meantime

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-22, 07:31:

Edit - I myself would happily buy a one way ticket to live on Mars, to be one of the first settlers there .. man that would be both terrifying and exciting.

If you could only take one computer from the 70's, 80's or 90's to Mars...? 😀

If only Venus and mars had had their positions switched, that would've made Venus a much better candidate for terraforming 🙂

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-23, 08:37:

gerry wrote on 2022-05-23, 07:59:

Mars's problems (low gravity, distance from sun) don't preclude it from terraforming but there is an alternative - Venus gets pl […]
Show full quote

Mars's problems (low gravity, distance from sun) don't preclude it from terraforming but there is an alternative - Venus gets plenty of sun, gravity close to Earths. Terraforming seems as much if not a greater challenge but as both seem multi-generational it's not something anyone could see a 'return' on in their lifetime

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-05-22, 23:21:

The first bases on the moon and Mars will not be easy living. It'll be alot of hard and quite dangerous work establishing the bases and getting everything setup. Anyone who thinks that they can just walk out of their landing craft and have an easy carefree life on the Moon or Mars will be sadly mistaken.

whatever walks out and creates the first bases won't be a human i'd guess but AI robots (not sci fi conscious ones, engineering ones). humans may follow at a alter date. assuming this does happen, and there are no actual committed dates and resources for anything yet, it will be decades in the future. What AI robots will be able to do then is certainly well beyond what they can do now, what humans will be may be largely the same bar some genetic modification and digital integrations

and all that assumes that humanity doesn't sink into a decline in the meantime

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-22, 07:31:

Edit - I myself would happily buy a one way ticket to live on Mars, to be one of the first settlers there .. man that would be both terrifying and exciting.

If you could only take one computer from the 70's, 80's or 90's to Mars...? 😀

Venus would certainly be a challenge, mostly in how to build terraforming equipment that could survive the crazy surface temperatures of Venus along with surviving the acid corrosion. Its not impossible but certainly beyond our current technology, Venus itself is quite an interesting enigma. If I had to choose a retro rig to take with me ...hmm it would be a Coleco Vision with the Atari 2600 module and several hundred games for both.

But yup I get your point, this did go off on a tangent 🤣.

The best way I could think of would be to somehow block part of the sun irradiating Venus (think something like a layer of satellites blocking the sun partially) to cool Venus down before actually going to the surface to start building most of the stuff we'd need. Not sure how long it would actually take to cool that planet down though but at least air pressure is there (and lots of it).

One major issue with Venus however is it's almost complete lack of turning. A day takes like, 180 days or something?
Then there's the same problem Mars has, the lack of plate tectonics.
My guess is both these planets may be lacking it due to the lack of a massive enough moon (but then again does Pluto have plate tectonic or would liquid water be needed for that?). The lack of a magnetosphere would also hurt, though very maybe Venus might be able to get it back if we somehow get Venus turning again.

If we did air ship bases we could live in the upper atmosphere of Venus. Parts of the Venus's upper atmosphere have earth like temperatures and pressure and would keep us above most of the sulfuric acid that makes up the lower atmosphere. I can't wait for Rocket Lab to launch their in house Venus mission. Peter Beck who is the owner/CEO of Rocket Lab has said more times than I can count that Venus is by far his most favorite planet.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-23, 15:17:

The best way I could think of would be to somehow block part of the sun irradiating Venus (think something like a layer of satel […]
Show full quote

The best way I could think of would be to somehow block part of the sun irradiating Venus (think something like a layer of satellites blocking the sun partially) to cool Venus down before actually going to the surface to start building most of the stuff we'd need. Not sure how long it would actually take to cool that planet down though but at least air pressure is there (and lots of it).

One major issue with Venus however is it's almost complete lack of turning. A day takes like, 180 days or something?
Then there's the same problem Mars has, the lack of plate tectonics.
My guess is both these planets may be lacking it due to the lack of a massive enough moon (but then again does Pluto have plate tectonic or would liquid water be needed for that?). The lack of a magnetosphere would also hurt, though very maybe Venus might be able to get it back if we somehow get Venus turning again.

yes to satellite 'sails' blocking the sun (and generating energy?) and maybe having some of them orbit venus in such a way as to emulate a 24 hour night day (dark one side, mirrors the other) could work

if it happens then you read it here on vogons first folks!

there would still be problems with magnetic field weakness, a big issue if the atmospheric density were reduced for humans life, and more besides. sure is a big project

i think a higher proportion of people in the 70's, 80's 90's would have believed terraforming to be something that 'will happen' than would believe it now, based on my interpretation of comparative optimism about the future (no data to back it up though!)

gerry wrote on 2022-05-24, 09:11:

yes to satellite 'sails' blocking the sun (and generating energy?) and maybe having some of them orbit venus in such a way as to […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-23, 15:17:

The best way I could think of would be to somehow block part of the sun irradiating Venus (think something like a layer of satel […]
Show full quote

The best way I could think of would be to somehow block part of the sun irradiating Venus (think something like a layer of satellites blocking the sun partially) to cool Venus down before actually going to the surface to start building most of the stuff we'd need. Not sure how long it would actually take to cool that planet down though but at least air pressure is there (and lots of it).

One major issue with Venus however is it's almost complete lack of turning. A day takes like, 180 days or something?
Then there's the same problem Mars has, the lack of plate tectonics.
My guess is both these planets may be lacking it due to the lack of a massive enough moon (but then again does Pluto have plate tectonic or would liquid water be needed for that?). The lack of a magnetosphere would also hurt, though very maybe Venus might be able to get it back if we somehow get Venus turning again.

yes to satellite 'sails' blocking the sun (and generating energy?) and maybe having some of them orbit venus in such a way as to emulate a 24 hour night day (dark one side, mirrors the other) could work

if it happens then you read it here on vogons first folks!

there would still be problems with magnetic field weakness, a big issue if the atmospheric density were reduced for humans life, and more besides. sure is a big project

i think a higher proportion of people in the 70's, 80's 90's would have believed terraforming to be something that 'will happen' than would believe it now, based on my interpretation of comparative optimism about the future (no data to back it up though!)

Yes, blocking the sun. Making energy from them would be an obvious choice I'd say. I mean why not? Closer to the sun there etc 😜

Yes, it would be a huge project. None of us are gonna live to see even the start of this. Science fiction is probably the best thing we'll get in this regard 😜

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2022-05-23, 15:26:

If we did air ship bases we could live in the upper atmosphere of Venus. Parts of the Venus's upper atmosphere have earth like temperatures and pressure and would keep us above most of the sulfuric acid that makes up the lower atmosphere. I can't wait for Rocket Lab to launch their in house Venus mission. Peter Beck who is the owner/CEO of Rocket Lab has said more times than I can count that Venus is by far his most favorite planet.

That's true. Would definitely be interesting. And perhaps the same could be used for the larger gas planets, though circumstances there are somewhat different.

How come a thread about the 70s, 80s and 90's nostalgia became a thread about the space? 🤣

Bruninho wrote on 2022-05-31, 14:18:

How come a thread about the 70s, 80s and 90's nostalgia became a thread about the space? 🤣

it's either because of a perceived optimism or spirit of times gone bye...or it's the weed 😮

Living in the upper atmosphere means exposure to radiation and meteorites.