Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:37:

I'm not even sure what I'd do if I were to get a BTX system. I reckon chances of it being some royalty OEM case is pretty high. […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-23, 19:40:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-23, 15:10:

LGA775 lasted a long time. One issue though is BTX. You do anything with BTX or are you trying to avoid that? Have any BTX cases […]
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LGA775 lasted a long time. One issue though is BTX. You do anything with BTX or are you trying to avoid that?
Have any BTX cases in your stash, just in case? 😜

For me it was just about collecting what was available at that time. So it's mostly s3, s7 (mostly AT boards), slot1 and s370 that I got, though I don't have exact numbers.
I don't really have one specific area of interest here, it's more about what I would want to avoid 😜

That board looks like a server board.

I have a Dell XPS420 which uses the BTX form factor, other than that I dont really go looking for BTX stuff, only grabbed the 420 as it was dirt cheap, in mint condition and was headed for the scrap yard. (I see no reason to scrap a Q6600 with a HD2600XT in it)

It is a server class board rigged up to be a gaming platform by EVGA, IIRC it uses a bios rather than server firmware so you can tinker with overclocking and such, still its a damn fine looking board and I might just bite the bullet and buy one.

I'm not even sure what I'd do if I were to get a BTX system. I reckon chances of it being some royalty OEM case is pretty high. I'm prolly gonna look at it from a case to case situation but if I can skip BTX alltogether I think that would be better.

I'm not sure in how much interest BTX would be from a retro perspective but I'd be surprised if it were to get completely forgotten though. It's still special in a way even though I realize I don't appreciate it as much but that's mostly because I prefer to look at it from a practical standpoint.

With AT this is different as AT is more widespread and it's harder to find an ATX alternative in most cases.

I’m just going to restore the 420 to original spec and likely sell it, I don’t really have a use for it but hated the idea of a working system being crushed for scrap.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:47:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:37:

I'm not even sure what I'd do if I were to get a BTX system. I reckon chances of it being some royalty OEM case is pretty high. […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-23, 19:40:

I have a Dell XPS420 which uses the BTX form factor, other than that I dont really go looking for BTX stuff, only grabbed the 420 as it was dirt cheap, in mint condition and was headed for the scrap yard. (I see no reason to scrap a Q6600 with a HD2600XT in it)

It is a server class board rigged up to be a gaming platform by EVGA, IIRC it uses a bios rather than server firmware so you can tinker with overclocking and such, still its a damn fine looking board and I might just bite the bullet and buy one.

I'm not even sure what I'd do if I were to get a BTX system. I reckon chances of it being some royalty OEM case is pretty high. I'm prolly gonna look at it from a case to case situation but if I can skip BTX alltogether I think that would be better.

I'm not sure in how much interest BTX would be from a retro perspective but I'd be surprised if it were to get completely forgotten though. It's still special in a way even though I realize I don't appreciate it as much but that's mostly because I prefer to look at it from a practical standpoint.

With AT this is different as AT is more widespread and it's harder to find an ATX alternative in most cases.

I’m just going to restore the 420 to original spec and likely sell it, I don’t really have a use for it but hated the idea of a working system being crushed for scrap.

I suppose that you must have some good quality packaging materials if you're selling complete systems. Or are you selling like locally?
Personally I think I'd either want it to go to a good home (because why trash something that's still working) or I'd use it as test hardware or something?
I don't know yet. I don't think I have anything BTX or at least I don't have any BTX motherboards in my stash.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 10:28:

I suppose that you must have some good quality packaging materials if you're selling complete systems. Or are you selling like l […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:47:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:37:

I'm not even sure what I'd do if I were to get a BTX system. I reckon chances of it being some royalty OEM case is pretty high. I'm prolly gonna look at it from a case to case situation but if I can skip BTX alltogether I think that would be better.

I'm not sure in how much interest BTX would be from a retro perspective but I'd be surprised if it were to get completely forgotten though. It's still special in a way even though I realize I don't appreciate it as much but that's mostly because I prefer to look at it from a practical standpoint.

With AT this is different as AT is more widespread and it's harder to find an ATX alternative in most cases.

I’m just going to restore the 420 to original spec and likely sell it, I don’t really have a use for it but hated the idea of a working system being crushed for scrap.

I suppose that you must have some good quality packaging materials if you're selling complete systems. Or are you selling like locally?
Personally I think I'd either want it to go to a good home (because why trash something that's still working) or I'd use it as test hardware or something?
I don't know yet. I don't think I have anything BTX or at least I don't have any BTX motherboards in my stash.

Locally, international postage is .. pretty crazy right now, I recently paid 70 quid to get a laptop sent from the UK, but seeing as its a rare IBM Thinkpad in lovely condition I was expecting it to be costly to get it here .. what I didn't realise is that it comes in its own Aluminium carry case ...thus the 70 quid.

Aussie post is really good about not damaging packages so as long as the PC is packaged right itll survive a trip through the local post, about the only precaution I might take with the 420 is to package the GPU separately, no need too worry about the CPU cooler since not much can remove the BTX cooler without destroying the entire PC.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:33:

You're missing the point. On multiple levels. So nevermind that. I can't be bothered to untangle all the spaghetti you create.

We were conversing, not arguing. When you no longer have an answer, whether it's not wanting to read, not wanting to or being able to comprehend nor compose or whatever, it is possible and more polite to simply not answer

It is disingenuous to adopt a haughty tone and to pretend to have made a vital point that's being missed

I'm not criticising either, perhaps you saw my response as a criticism or counter argument when it was just conversation

gerry wrote on 2022-05-25, 11:32:

We were conversing, not arguing. When you no longer have an answer, whether it's not wanting to read, not wanting to or being […]
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Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:33:

You're missing the point. On multiple levels. So nevermind that. I can't be bothered to untangle all the spaghetti you create.

We were conversing, not arguing. When you no longer have an answer, whether it's not wanting to read, not wanting to or being able to comprehend nor compose or whatever, it is possible and more polite to simply not answer

It is disingenuous to adopt a haughty tone and to pretend to have made a vital point that's being missed

I'm not criticising either, perhaps you saw my response as a criticism or counter argument when it was just conversation

Yeah, you are definitely right that I could have brought the message more politely. I was also just tired and couldn't bother putting in more effort seeing you didn't really bother to put in more effort anyway. It's got to come from 2 sides you know. Anyway, my apologies, it could definitely have been more constructive 😀

The reason I didn't want to continue this line of conversation remains though. You seem to not want to un-evade the main point which is that these middlemen, they are useless, they don't produce anything, they are harmful, they are unneeded. They don't bring anything positive to the table and this is the point you were skillfully pretending to not be there. Especially your remark on the housing market made your PoV very clear"

Now that's market disruption, its stopping the market operating the way it would if all parties were free to buy sell as they wished

because if this is really the way you see it, you're not gonna change your mind about this subject ever and are not open to any kind of open and honest conversation about it since your PoV about this matter has been set in stone beforehand.

That is why I wrote what I wrote and this essence does remain.

Now I don't know if you are actually in a business of this kind but this wouldn't really surprise me. It has happened plenty times before and not just on this forum.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to convey with the argument/conversation/debate thingy. That's just semantics to me.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-25, 10:55:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 10:28:

I suppose that you must have some good quality packaging materials if you're selling complete systems. Or are you selling like l […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-24, 22:47:

I’m just going to restore the 420 to original spec and likely sell it, I don’t really have a use for it but hated the idea of a working system being crushed for scrap.

I suppose that you must have some good quality packaging materials if you're selling complete systems. Or are you selling like locally?
Personally I think I'd either want it to go to a good home (because why trash something that's still working) or I'd use it as test hardware or something?
I don't know yet. I don't think I have anything BTX or at least I don't have any BTX motherboards in my stash.

Locally, international postage is .. pretty crazy right now, I recently paid 70 quid to get a laptop sent from the UK, but seeing as its a rare IBM Thinkpad in lovely condition I was expecting it to be costly to get it here .. what I didn't realise is that it comes in its own Aluminium carry case ...thus the 70 quid.

Aussie post is really good about not damaging packages so as long as the PC is packaged right itll survive a trip through the local post, about the only precaution I might take with the 420 is to package the GPU separately, no need too worry about the CPU cooler since not much can remove the BTX cooler without destroying the entire PC.

Yes, the high costs of international posting has definitely made this hobby less accessible.

Thus far the Dutch post has been pretty decent (only once did a package had obvious damage from transit and it wasn't anything critical, nor was it anything to do with retro computing), even though I have gotten items in questionable packaging. In one case it was a 'modern' heatpiped pci-e graphics card. it had been shipped in a thin cereal-like box iirc? The heatsink was slightly bent but the card functioned just fine anyway (and it was cheap so I didn't really care as long as it was fully functional).

But anyway, thus far I've been pretty lucky, though much of the stuff I bought online was from The Netherlands itself. So not worldwide shipping which may bring a higher risk of package damage from shipping.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 11:55:

Yes, the high costs of international posting has definitely made this hobby less accessible. […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-25, 10:55:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 10:28:

I suppose that you must have some good quality packaging materials if you're selling complete systems. Or are you selling like locally?
Personally I think I'd either want it to go to a good home (because why trash something that's still working) or I'd use it as test hardware or something?
I don't know yet. I don't think I have anything BTX or at least I don't have any BTX motherboards in my stash.

Locally, international postage is .. pretty crazy right now, I recently paid 70 quid to get a laptop sent from the UK, but seeing as its a rare IBM Thinkpad in lovely condition I was expecting it to be costly to get it here .. what I didn't realise is that it comes in its own Aluminium carry case ...thus the 70 quid.

Aussie post is really good about not damaging packages so as long as the PC is packaged right itll survive a trip through the local post, about the only precaution I might take with the 420 is to package the GPU separately, no need too worry about the CPU cooler since not much can remove the BTX cooler without destroying the entire PC.

Yes, the high costs of international posting has definitely made this hobby less accessible.

Thus far the Dutch post has been pretty decent (only once did a package had obvious damage from transit and it wasn't anything critical, nor was it anything to do with retro computing), even though I have gotten items in questionable packaging. In one case it was a 'modern' heatpiped pci-e graphics card. it had been shipped in a thin cereal-like box iirc? The heatsink was slightly bent but the card functioned just fine anyway (and it was cheap so I didn't really care as long as it was fully functional).

But anyway, thus far I've been pretty lucky, though much of the stuff I bought online was from The Netherlands itself. So not worldwide shipping which may bring a higher risk of package damage from shipping.

Odly .. I have bought a number of GPUs from a retro GPU collector in the Netherlands, amazingly fast shipping to Australia too .. they have a nice Geforce 256 DRR that I am tempted to buy since I dont have one yet. only thing stopping me is the current exchange rates between Euros and the AUD which are pretty abysmal right now, using current rates the GPU is north of 350 AUD once you factor in import and shipping. (Just a bit too expensive for a 256)

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 11:50:

. You seem to not want to un-evade the main point which is that these middlemen, they are useless, they don't produce anything, they are harmful, they are unneeded. They don't bring anything positive to the table and this is the point you were skillfully pretending to not be there.

No evasion, such middle men are not producer nor consumer. In economics they are a kind of marketing that connects products with buyers at their achievable price. That supposedly has a value but doesn't make it fine by me at all, it blocks opportunities from buyers who won't afford top prices and it just feels ugly

However it's what happens when people can choose to do it and I'm not sure what we can do about it beyond not buying from them, and someone always does buy from them in the end it seems

If letting people buy and sell whatever they want is 'the market' then regulating it is a kind of disruption, but I agree the we can call scalpers a disruption of a kind too

Like houses, without regulations they could all be bought up and rented or left empty, even if it's an awful outcome for lots of people, so it's regulated (maybe badly)

But that's not relavent to hobby markets so in short the price of vintage hardware is high because it can be 🙁

It's funny how (at times) this thread alternates between posts berating the high-priced market, and posts where a different user gleefully reports about their latest massive spend-up.

My dudes, I posit that both the cause of and the reason for the market is (at places like this) right here, all around you.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:03:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 11:55:

Yes, the high costs of international posting has definitely made this hobby less accessible. […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-25, 10:55:

Locally, international postage is .. pretty crazy right now, I recently paid 70 quid to get a laptop sent from the UK, but seeing as its a rare IBM Thinkpad in lovely condition I was expecting it to be costly to get it here .. what I didn't realise is that it comes in its own Aluminium carry case ...thus the 70 quid.

Aussie post is really good about not damaging packages so as long as the PC is packaged right itll survive a trip through the local post, about the only precaution I might take with the 420 is to package the GPU separately, no need too worry about the CPU cooler since not much can remove the BTX cooler without destroying the entire PC.

Yes, the high costs of international posting has definitely made this hobby less accessible.

Thus far the Dutch post has been pretty decent (only once did a package had obvious damage from transit and it wasn't anything critical, nor was it anything to do with retro computing), even though I have gotten items in questionable packaging. In one case it was a 'modern' heatpiped pci-e graphics card. it had been shipped in a thin cereal-like box iirc? The heatsink was slightly bent but the card functioned just fine anyway (and it was cheap so I didn't really care as long as it was fully functional).

But anyway, thus far I've been pretty lucky, though much of the stuff I bought online was from The Netherlands itself. So not worldwide shipping which may bring a higher risk of package damage from shipping.

Odly .. I have bought a number of GPUs from a retro GPU collector in the Netherlands, amazingly fast shipping to Australia too .. they have a nice Geforce 256 DRR that I am tempted to buy since I dont have one yet. only thing stopping me is the current exchange rates between Euros and the AUD which are pretty abysmal right now, using current rates the GPU is north of 350 AUD once you factor in import and shipping. (Just a bit too expensive for a 256)

From a collectors standpoint the original GeForce is nice to have 🙂
I don't have any. None just ever happened to have crossed my paths and GF1 is not an item I was specifically looking for like I was looking for 3DFX cards.
350 AUD is roughly €233, that would be a hard pass for me, wayyy more than I would want to pay for a card I'm fairly sure I wouldn't use as much as I'd like to use something I'd pay this much for.
Having said that, disregarding the pricing issues I wouldn't really mind using either the DDR or the SDRAM version.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:38:

From a collectors standpoint the original GeForce is nice to have 🙂 I don't have any. None just ever happened to have crossed my […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:03:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 11:55:

Yes, the high costs of international posting has definitely made this hobby less accessible.

Thus far the Dutch post has been pretty decent (only once did a package had obvious damage from transit and it wasn't anything critical, nor was it anything to do with retro computing), even though I have gotten items in questionable packaging. In one case it was a 'modern' heatpiped pci-e graphics card. it had been shipped in a thin cereal-like box iirc? The heatsink was slightly bent but the card functioned just fine anyway (and it was cheap so I didn't really care as long as it was fully functional).

But anyway, thus far I've been pretty lucky, though much of the stuff I bought online was from The Netherlands itself. So not worldwide shipping which may bring a higher risk of package damage from shipping.

Odly .. I have bought a number of GPUs from a retro GPU collector in the Netherlands, amazingly fast shipping to Australia too .. they have a nice Geforce 256 DRR that I am tempted to buy since I dont have one yet. only thing stopping me is the current exchange rates between Euros and the AUD which are pretty abysmal right now, using current rates the GPU is north of 350 AUD once you factor in import and shipping. (Just a bit too expensive for a 256)

From a collectors standpoint the original GeForce is nice to have 🙂
I don't have any. None just ever happened to have crossed my paths and GF1 is not an item I was specifically looking for like I was looking for 3DFX cards.
350 AUD is roughly €233, that would be a hard pass for me, wayyy more than I would want to pay for a card I'm fairly sure I wouldn't use as much as I'd like to use something I'd pay this much for.
Having said that, disregarding the pricing issues I wouldn't really mind using either the DDR or the SDRAM version.

Its an Asus V6800 Deluxe DDR model which is why its priced like that, the SDR version is 100 bucks less, but if Im going to spend 250 AUD on a GPU SDR really wouldn't make sense either so both are a hard pass.

Im guessing its also got the ASUS brand name tax on it too.

Good thing Im patient and not in any rush to add this GPU to my collection, I also found a working ATI Rage Fury MAXX 128 Pro for 400 USD .. which is 600 USD less than the other I have seen on eBay, I was tempted since its such a rare GPU but again .. 400 USD is too much.

Eeew at those prices. Got a Rage Fury MAXX a couple years ago for $75 if I remember correctly.

The GeForce 1 DDR cards pop up every once in a while for about $35, which is how I got mine.

cyclone3d wrote on 2022-05-25, 13:09:

Eeew at those prices. Got a Rage Fury MAXX a couple years ago for $75 if I remember correctly.

The GeForce 1 DDR cards pop up every once in a while for about $35, which is how I got mine.

Yeah, I can wait, they will pop up eventually for more reasonable prices. The MAXX isn't really a GPU I would use as a TnT2 Ultra is better for that era of hardware but rather something to put on display as its a damn fine looking card.

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:33:

It's funny how (at times) this thread alternates between posts berating the high-priced market, and posts where a different user gleefully reports about their latest massive spend-up.

My dudes, I posit that both the cause of and the reason for the market is (at places like this) right here, all around you.

Tbf, there's a lot of variables at work here, with the obvious one being these are parts no longer produced and individually fleeting.
These are parts made by the thousands, mass-produced.

But most parts have been recycled now, with only few items scooped up by various people for whatever reasons and some, shall I say, 'hidden' stashes that are perhaps left somewhere? One example of this is that certain K6-2+ CPU that appeared in large volume just a few months ago, but large stocks NIB have turned up from time to time. This illustrates just how mass produced these hobby items are.

Obviously prices are set by demand and supply and either of these can be influenced in a variable number of ways, some may be more shady than other ways and it can differ per country or area as well (recycling regulations, what was actually sold on that market back in the 90s, like eastern EU countries may have different stock 'in the dusty attic' than south-african stock or australian stock, how many people had spare room to keep all this old stuff for years, the climate as this may dictate storing conditions, postage costs and how many people in total there are at your location or country).
And obviously prices will also depend a lot on the item itself, like how a GF1 DDR will be more wanted than for instance a PCI modem card regardless of how common an item is.

Prices for retro gear was actually fairly stable for a number of years consecutively before prices started to rise. And at first we were like "Wow, €20 for a boxed Voodoo 2 is a lot!" but prices started going up even more steeply.

One other reason is of course the popularity of the hobby, for which I btw don't really have any way of providing accurate numbers except for Vogons itself which has seen a steady yet modest increase over time (I've never been much of a discord fan tbh, so I can't comment on that) despite the overall decline of the online forum as a medium and this also has several reasons. Covid is one of them and nostalgia is also one of them. Perhaps computers becoming more accessible to the general public could also be one, as with certain tech channels which btw do not necessarily have to have a direct connection to retro computing.
And for Vogons in particular, the forum format lends itself quite excellently for this subject as this way knowledge is not really lost in the pile of newer user written public data (like it is inaccessible on facebook and especially discord). Many of these parts are so obscure that even the original manufacturer doesn't know anymore what it does and what it's for 😜
So these day's professionals of the3se old parts are the people and these include the ones on Vogons. We're the last line of defense against total oblivion and complete ignorance of computer history 😮

Anyway, I digress xD

One thing I don't see mentioned much btw is that also the hobby itself has changed and particularly how this hobby is seen by people who aren't in the hobby. It used to be more for loosers or people without money, like there was no future in it "just throw out all this old junk" and now nostalgia-bug bit more and more people over time so more people can relate (positively) to the hobby now. It's gone more towards mainstream instead of it being a niche of specifically interested tinkerers. People weren't buying masses of boxed 'popular' icons back then, they were buying electronic devices so they could tinker with it. Now some parts have become so expensive that one could consider not even using it because it's no longer feasible to replace this item.

The hobby having gone more mainstream also brought in a newer breed of people including sellers alongside a slowly yet remorseless dwindling of number of items to share in between us all. This bubble is expanding (in price as well as in people) and more people want a cut of the pie, so to say.

Having a total number of hobbyists over time would be interesting data to browse through btw, but I doubt such numbers exist. Or at least these don't appear to be centrally accessible.

gerry wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:22:

No evasion, such middle men are not producer nor consumer. In economics they are a kind of marketing that connects products wi […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 11:50:

. You seem to not want to un-evade the main point which is that these middlemen, they are useless, they don't produce anything, they are harmful, they are unneeded. They don't bring anything positive to the table and this is the point you were skillfully pretending to not be there.

No evasion, such middle men are not producer nor consumer. In economics they are a kind of marketing that connects products with buyers at their achievable price. That supposedly has a value but doesn't make it fine by me at all, it blocks opportunities from buyers who won't afford top prices and it just feels ugly

However it's what happens when people can choose to do it and I'm not sure what we can do about it beyond not buying from them, and someone always does buy from them in the end it seems

If letting people buy and sell whatever they want is 'the market' then regulating it is a kind of disruption, but I agree the we can call scalpers a disruption of a kind too

Like houses, without regulations they could all be bought up and rented or left empty, even if it's an awful outcome for lots of people, so it's regulated (maybe badly)

But that's not relavent to hobby markets so in short the price of vintage hardware is high because it can be 🙁

I agree. I think little can be done against it.
Well, at least this hobby isn't quite as accessible as the retro console one 😋
Still requires some tinkering unless you're just wanting to fill up rows of pristine NIB Ultras for your display cabinet, just so you can show off or something xD
Like, personally I wouldn't blame it on the youtubers. Many of them are just as passionate about the hobby as many of us here are and they are just doing their thing like we are doing our thing here.

Heck, even writing on any social media about whatever parts may increase the price of said parts, who really knows? 😮 🤣

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:47:

Its an Asus V6800 Deluxe DDR model which is why its priced like that, the SDR version is 100 bucks less, but if Im going to spen […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:38:

From a collectors standpoint the original GeForce is nice to have 🙂 I don't have any. None just ever happened to have crossed my […]
Show full quote

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-05-25, 12:03:

Odly .. I have bought a number of GPUs from a retro GPU collector in the Netherlands, amazingly fast shipping to Australia too .. they have a nice Geforce 256 DRR that I am tempted to buy since I dont have one yet. only thing stopping me is the current exchange rates between Euros and the AUD which are pretty abysmal right now, using current rates the GPU is north of 350 AUD once you factor in import and shipping. (Just a bit too expensive for a 256)

From a collectors standpoint the original GeForce is nice to have 🙂
I don't have any. None just ever happened to have crossed my paths and GF1 is not an item I was specifically looking for like I was looking for 3DFX cards.
350 AUD is roughly €233, that would be a hard pass for me, wayyy more than I would want to pay for a card I'm fairly sure I wouldn't use as much as I'd like to use something I'd pay this much for.
Having said that, disregarding the pricing issues I wouldn't really mind using either the DDR or the SDRAM version.

Its an Asus V6800 Deluxe DDR model which is why its priced like that, the SDR version is 100 bucks less, but if Im going to spend 250 AUD on a GPU SDR really wouldn't make sense either so both are a hard pass.

Im guessing its also got the ASUS brand name tax on it too.

Good thing Im patient and not in any rush to add this GPU to my collection, I also found a working ATI Rage Fury MAXX 128 Pro for 400 USD .. which is 600 USD less than the other I have seen on eBay, I was tempted since its such a rare GPU but again .. 400 USD is too much.

Yes, for some reason some brands (including Asus) have become more wanted.
They are definitely one of the better brands though, but personally I wouldn't be surprised if many people buying retro Asus stuff basically buy it "because they heard this brand is good" without really knowing too much about it BUT I know from experience that sellers will also try to artificially inflate brand prices regardless of whether or not it even is of this brand (and not just PC related stuff but also stuff like clothing, an exact same thing but now of a brand and POOF price just suddenly quadrupled xD 😜 ).

Willingness to do research can save a buck here and there.

As has been said many a time already, the situation is all Economics 101.

The same economic forces which apply to all things, also apply to retro computing.

The concepts of rarity and remakes (supply), popularity and trends (demand), exclusivity, economics of scale, market cornering, and many more, are just Economics 101. There's nothing special happening in the retro computing market that hasn't happened in a million other markets about a million other things.

There's no need to keep reinventing the wheel, as though all of these were newly-discovered concepts.

that doesn't mean that those ecenomics 101 aren't bad and we can't complain about it :p

Some people like to complain about the complaints.
🤣

I'm seriously worried people here are wearing their IBM model M's out whilst complaining on the prices of them.