VOGONS

Common searches


Reasons to hate modern games

Topic actions

Reply 180 of 232, by Shagittarius

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-06-30, 15:38:

So would I be wrong in saying (as I firmly believe) that it's awful, instead of saying that in my opinion it's awful?

Both of these statements are valid, correctly written, opinions:

Yoko Ono is awful.

In my opinion Yoko Ono is awful.

Even this is a valid opinion:

It's undeniable by every measurable metric that Yoko Ono is awful.

Reply 182 of 232, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
DNSDies wrote on 2022-06-30, 13:03:
Holy projection, batman! Wow. Way to jump to conclusions! I was showing the horrible art style and janky animations. Sword Maste […]
Show full quote
Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-29, 20:41:

So what is a great reason to hate modern games? Mix races within games? Or black people also being pirates which they actually still can be even in modern times?
Care to elaborate? 😜

Holy projection, batman! Wow. Way to jump to conclusions!
I was showing the horrible art style and janky animations.
Sword Master was always black in Monkey Island. Since 1990.
She didn't look like garbage in 1990, though. Neither did poor guybrush.

1656582306651.png

Calm down. My point is your pic could be showing many different things. You seem to find it an important point. Then at least try to put in the effort to explain your PoV to people who for whatever reason don't see your point or share your opinion.

Agreed with Appiah4 and Shagittarius 🙂

I never played Monkey Island (or at least I don't remember playing or even seeing someone play this game).

You could also say the death of creativity with washed up old developers releasing endless nostalgia-bait remakes, reboots, and soulless cash grabs.

There is still plenty of creativity to go around. We had bad games back then as well, but games were a totally different animal back then.

A game could be made by someone programming a week in the attic and with little to add to a game visually, using things like sprite graphics was one way to give games a lot of character. Imo part of this character was lost with the early 3D games (compare something like C&C with Warzone 2100. or perhaps better, compare Z with Z Steel Soldiers. Imo Z was a far more charismatic game than Z Steel Soldiers was) but 3D did add a new and different kind of character which at the 3D's infancy had yet to be fleshed out.

Many of the so called AAA titles these days are designed from the ground up similar to how big movies are made: Based on a proven concept while trying to avoid taking 'unnecessary' risks and limiting innovation (except for graphics perhaps and except when it has to do with monetization).
Especially the soulless cashgrabs, but even then, we used to have many cashgrabs back then as well.

Could you give some examples of what you mean with washed up old developers releasing endless nostalgia-bait remakes?

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 183 of 232, by DNSDies

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-30, 19:29:

Could you give some examples of what you mean with washed up old developers releasing endless nostalgia-bait remakes?

Mighty Number Nine was Keiji Inafune's clear nostalgia-bait re-imagining of Mega Man.
Super Mario 3D All-Stars, a bare bones port released at full price
Warcraft III Reforged. Nuff said. Diablo Immortal. Blizzard in general.
Rockstar's recent GTA remaster debacle.
Yooka-Laylee, the creators being all former Rare staff released an incredibly dated re-imagining of Banjo Kazooie.
Square enix and their lazy PC ports of mobile games which often cost MORE than the actual mobile version.
Everything around Shenmue III.
Incredibly pretentious Balan Wonderworld was billed as a Yuji Naka nostalgia piece.
Pokemon games in general.
FF7 remake being billed as an actual remake only to be baited and switched into a sequel. Regardless of if you enjoyed it, It was still scummy.

Reply 184 of 232, by creepingnet

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
DNSDies wrote on 2022-06-30, 20:10:
Mighty Number Nine was Keiji Inafune's clear nostalgia-bait re-imagining of Mega Man. Super Mario 3D All-Stars, a bare bones por […]
Show full quote
Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-30, 19:29:

Could you give some examples of what you mean with washed up old developers releasing endless nostalgia-bait remakes?

Mighty Number Nine was Keiji Inafune's clear nostalgia-bait re-imagining of Mega Man.
Super Mario 3D All-Stars, a bare bones port released at full price
Warcraft III Reforged. Nuff said. Diablo Immortal. Blizzard in general.
Rockstar's recent GTA remaster debacle.
Yooka-Laylee, the creators being all former Rare staff released an incredibly dated re-imagining of Banjo Kazooie.
Square enix and their lazy PC ports of mobile games which often cost MORE than the actual mobile version.
Everything around Shenmue III.
Incredibly pretentious Balan Wonderworld was billed as a Yuji Naka nostalgia piece.
Pokemon games in general.
FF7 remake being billed as an actual remake only to be baited and switched into a sequel. Regardless of if you enjoyed it, It was still scummy.

I only feel Ron Gilbert got it right with Thimbleweed Park, but it feels like the response was similar to the 1988 NEC Ultralite - everyone thought it was cool as heck, but only a handful actually went out to buy one. However this time it was not lack of affordability that was the issue. I think it was people outside our little "retro" bubble thinking it's ludcrious to reduce $3000 worth of hardcore, thread-ripping, gaming hardware down to a machine trying to emulate a 386 DX-20 from 1988 but with the Talkie Capabilities of a Direct X game from 1995 in modern day 320k audio quality.

You mention Enix, this is me, particularly on Dragon Quest. I dunno why there's a failure to embrace the ORIGINAL 8-bit versions of those games. Sure, people love the newer SNES+ versions of these titles, but to me I prefer the patina, character, and even the limitation-forced consistancy of the original 8-bit versions. I mean, Dragon Quest on a cellphone - EEEEEEW! There's a reason I quit emulating on a touch-screen cell phone, and part of it is why I won't touch Dragon Quest. Also, holding the darned thing in portrait mode makes the playfield - to me - worse than any 8-bit Dragon Warrior release from the 80's/90's. I wanted Dragon Warrior I-IV for Virtual Console in the original NES format, instead I had to resort to gray area emulation until I could afford to buy the actual cartridges at their stupidly high prices. But I'll give my $156 copy of Dragon Warrior IV this - the trade-up gave me more cohesiveness to my collection (and less clutter).

~The Creeping Network~
My Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/creepingnet
Creepingnet's World - https://creepingnet.neocities.org/
The Creeping Network Repo - https://www.geocities.ws/creepingnet2019/

Reply 186 of 232, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Plasma wrote on 2022-06-30, 20:58:

Thimbleweed Park sold around 300K copies, I think that's pretty decent for a retro adventure game.

I did my part and I think it's pretty damn good.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 187 of 232, by Kerr Avon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
DNSDies wrote on 2022-06-28, 14:39:

Also, Bioshock has an option to disable vita-chambers, by not using it you degrade a game into an interactive novel with no consequences where the rules don't matter. It becomes a puzzle with a set and simple solution.

I am no fan of the Vita chambers in Bioshock 1 and 2, because they just make games that are already too easy even easier. But sadly the "Disable the Vita-Chambers" option isn't worth using in some versions of the games - I can't remember which versions this applies to, as I've played them on the PC, XBox 360, PS4, and PS3 in various editions (the single release versions, the Ultimate Rapture Edition collection, and the Bioshock remaster collection on the PS4.

What I mean is, if the option is turned off (or, before the option to disable the VIta chambers existed in the game, as it wasn't originally there, and was added by a later patch) then if you didn't want to use Vita-chambers, then when you died, the game resurrected you in a Vita-chamber, and you then manually loaded a save game.

But if you use the option to disable the Vita-chambers, then when you die, instead of being given an option to load a save-game, the game goes automatically back to the main menu. And since it takes longer for the game to go back to the main menu and then for you to load a game-save, than it does for the game to resurrect you in a VIta-chamber and then for you to load a game-save, then it's quicker to leave the VIta-chambers enabled.

Reply 188 of 232, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-07-01, 11:00:

I am no fan of the Vita chambers in Bioshock 1 and 2, because they just make games that are already too easy even easier.

I don't see the point in them at all, when you can save and load anywhere.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 189 of 232, by RandomStranger

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
dr_st wrote on 2022-07-01, 12:31:
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-07-01, 11:00:

I am no fan of the Vita chambers in Bioshock 1 and 2, because they just make games that are already too easy even easier.

I don't see the point in them at all, when you can save and load anywhere.

It's a modified checkpoint system which essentially just skips the loading screen. Never really bothered me.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 191 of 232, by ZellSF

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-07-01, 11:00:
I am no fan of the Vita chambers in Bioshock 1 and 2, because they just make games that are already too easy even easier. But sa […]
Show full quote
DNSDies wrote on 2022-06-28, 14:39:

Also, Bioshock has an option to disable vita-chambers, by not using it you degrade a game into an interactive novel with no consequences where the rules don't matter. It becomes a puzzle with a set and simple solution.

I am no fan of the Vita chambers in Bioshock 1 and 2, because they just make games that are already too easy even easier. But sadly the "Disable the Vita-Chambers" option isn't worth using in some versions of the games - I can't remember which versions this applies to, as I've played them on the PC, XBox 360, PS4, and PS3 in various editions (the single release versions, the Ultimate Rapture Edition collection, and the Bioshock remaster collection on the PS4.

What I mean is, if the option is turned off (or, before the option to disable the VIta chambers existed in the game, as it wasn't originally there, and was added by a later patch) then if you didn't want to use Vita-chambers, then when you died, the game resurrected you in a Vita-chamber, and you then manually loaded a save game.

But if you use the option to disable the Vita-chambers, then when you die, instead of being given an option to load a save-game, the game goes automatically back to the main menu. And since it takes longer for the game to go back to the main menu and then for you to load a game-save, than it does for the game to resurrect you in a VIta-chamber and then for you to load a game-save, then it's quicker to leave the VIta-chambers enabled.

Vita chambers were added in a patch.

So he's saying by using a feature that goes against the design of the game, added in a patch, you're degrading the game. Which is just being ridiculous if you ask me.

Not sure why I mentioned BioShock the way I did though, because that design is really just a soft failure state in the same way quicksaves and quickloads are. Just a small setback of progress. Something you can have in any game, walking simulators included.

Trying to define a game as having a win condition really just gets even more vague. Lots of things you can argue is, or isn't a win condition. Semantics indeed.

Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-06-29, 11:26:

- The game mechanic whereby the screen turns red when you are injured, making it harder to see the enemies or anything.

That's like, from 1992. How far are we stretching modern games again?

I mean it's not the first complaint I've read here that was popular in the 90s.

Reply 192 of 232, by Bruninho

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Another reason: DRM

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 193 of 232, by rique

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

These days, what i don't like on modern games is, that you only can buy a game with a clear consciense, when 3-5 years has passed and mostly all issueses are eliminated by updates and all DLCs are out and a Gold-Version or something like that is available.

Reply 194 of 232, by Joakim

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

My main issue with modern games is that you do not own them. If Steam sometime in the future decides to remove your favorite game it is gone. In some cases it can be removed from history.

Reply 195 of 232, by Kerr Avon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
ZellSF wrote on 2022-07-02, 22:40:
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-06-29, 11:26:

- The game mechanic whereby the screen turns red when you are injured, making it harder to see the enemies or anything.

That's like, from 1992. How far are we stretching modern games again?

I mean it's not the first complaint I've read here that was popular in the 90s.

The title of this thread is "Reasons to hate modern games". There is nothing in the title that says we can only discuss features that are relatively new. As long as a 'feature' in a modern game lowers the quality/enjoyment factor of that game, then it's a valid point, regardless of whether it first appeared in a 2022 game, or a 1980s game.

Or do you think we shouldn't include, say, game-breaking bugs in this thread, simply because the 1984 ZX Spectrum game Jetset Willy had several?

Last edited by Kerr Avon on 2022-07-03, 12:12. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 196 of 232, by Kerr Avon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Joakim wrote on 2022-07-03, 10:32:

My main issue with modern games is that you do not own them. If Steam sometime in the future decides to remove your favorite game it is gone. In some cases it can be removed from history.

Yep. The digital download versions of Grand Theft Auto 3 and it's sequels have already fallen victim to a similar but lesser annoyance; because the licensing period of the songs has expired, and not all of the songs have had their licenses renewed. This has resulted in the games having some of their songs removed, not only when you redownload the games, but even if the game and the songs were already on your PC/console (in which case the songs were removed via a compulsory patch).

I don't know how each individual case of a given GTA 3 (or sequel) on a given platform on a real CD/DVD/Blu-Ray disc is treated, on a machine that still supports online patching. Perhaps a patch was issued to remove the no-longer licensed songs from the games' installs on the hard drive.

I don't keep up with games-related news these days, so maybe something similar has happened with other games, such as characters being removed from fighting games for copyright or other reasons, or specific types/brands of cars being removed from racing games, or songs being removed from Guitar Hero type games.

Pirates, of course, won't have to suffer this at all.

Last edited by Kerr Avon on 2022-07-03, 12:12. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 197 of 232, by Kerr Avon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Come to think of it, has no one mentioned the annoying modern-ish trend whereby a mandatory official patch can prevent popular third party mods from working (either stopping them working completely, or causing unwanted bugs and glitches int he mods)? This is no doubt a problem going back decades (maybe to beyond the first Doom game in 1993), but it seems to have gotten worse this past decades or so.

Reply 198 of 232, by ZellSF

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-07-03, 11:46:
ZellSF wrote on 2022-07-02, 22:40:
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-06-29, 11:26:

- The game mechanic whereby the screen turns red when you are injured, making it harder to see the enemies or anything.

That's like, from 1992. How far are we stretching modern games again?

I mean it's not the first complaint I've read here that was popular in the 90s.

The title of this thread is "Reasons to hate modern games". There is nothing in the title that says we can only discuss features that are relatively new. As long as a 'feature' in a modern game lowers the quality/enjoyment factor of that game, then it's a valid point, regardless of whether it first appeared in a 2022 game, or a 1980s game.

Or do you think we shouldn't include, say, game-breaking bugs in this thread, simply because the 1984 ZX Spectrum game Jetset Willy had several?

I didn't say it first appeared in 1992, I said it was popularized in 1992. That said the complaints about game breaking bugs are nonsensical too.

Really not buying your justification for why you feel this is relevant; if there's a thread that says "reasons to hate modern games" then logically I would expect to find complaints that are specific to modern games in it otherwise the thread would say "reasons to hate games".

Reply 199 of 232, by dr_st

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-07-03, 11:58:

This has resulted in the games having some of their songs removed, not only when you redownload the games, but even if the game and the songs were already on your PC/console (in which case the songs were removed via a compulsory patch).

I wonder if anyone called the distributors out on the legality of this move. License expiration should only affect the ability of the licensor to use the licensed content in new products / new sales; it should not affect users who have purchased the product back when the license terms were valid.

Kerr Avon wrote on 2022-07-03, 11:58:

Pirates, of course, won't have to suffer this at all.

Legitimate owners of physical PC copies won't have, either.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys