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First post, by ptr1ck

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I'm trying to sort out which will best meet my needs between these three for a lower powered XP system, Athlon XP 2.3ghz. The case has front panel HD audio connection, no AC97, which I do want to work well for headphones. I do have an adapter (from moddiy.com) for the Audigy that connects it to HD Audio. It's the same connector for the Santa Cruz, which I haven't tried with it yet. The Xonar has native HD Audio connection.

CL Audigy 2 - This card is an OEM version but is SB0350. I run Daniel K drivers with it, support pack 8.0. I've never been a fan of Creative for numerous reasons, which started when they killed Aureal. I keep the driver install relatively slim, but still looks like it's running more processes than it really needs. Headphone front panel doesn't completely mute the rear output when plugged in. I'm not sure if it's a driver issue or the adapter to front panel. It has a completely useless firewire port on it, which I don't like.

Turtle Beach Santa Cruz - This was the card I bought back in the day after my Vortex 2 had too many compatibility issues with Win2k. I was very anti-Creative at the time and this is what I used for a long time until I did actually get a retail Audigy 2ZS (which is now not working). I really like this card for it's simplistic approach and what looks to be slim drivers. It has always sounded great to me. It's the least attractive card in the bunch (windowed case) as it has a ton of ill mounted electrolytic caps on it and the CD audio connector is slightly bent. It is in the last PCI slot with the front most concealed though. I need to test the functionality of the front panel headphone with this card.

Asus Xonar DG - I picked this up for a Win10 box a couple years ago because it was cost effective huge upgrade to low end onboard Realtek. I use the Uni Xonar driver package for it. I have always though the sound was very clean. The card is very integrated with a C-Media Oxygen HD CMI8786 audio processor. It is low profile and the cleanest install look as well. Front headphone output is manually selected in the driver, which works fine, but I would prefer an automatic change when headphone is detected.

I want decently working front panel headphones via HD audio and the simpler the driver the better. EAX is not critical. The lowest CPU overhead would be beneficial as the system is bottlenecked there. I wouldn't mind running some tests, but I have no idea where to start with sound card testing.

edit: Benchmarks are a few posts down.

Last edited by ptr1ck on 2022-07-12, 02:50. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 1 of 11, by dionb

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Three excellent cards there. If you're not hugely into EAX, they have similar features. So focus on what you do care about: CPU overhead.

Should be pretty simple: get a CPU-limited game with good benchmarking features (Q3A running at low resolution springs to mind, but something a few years newer and more taxing for the AXP would be fine too), install cards one by one and do a timedemo. If you only change the card, you should get a good idea of what each one does to your FPS. To be absolutely perfect, you should start each run with a clean install of your OS & drivers - and under Win9x that would really matter, but I suspect that it won't matter much under WinXP for a regular PCI card like these.

Reply 2 of 11, by Wolfus

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I love soundfont bank manager of Audigy2. DOSBox can use it as GM device and with a good sf2 it sounds better than Sound Canvas. Guitar Pro sounds great too (if you use it). Sure, you can use TiMIDIty or something similar but it is more CPU demanding with a big latency.
But as dionb already said, you have three great cards to pick from 🙂

Reply 3 of 11, by ptr1ck

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Dionb, I don't have 9x on the system. That is interesting though about a timedemo. I've never thought about it more than what 3d Mark 2003 does for a sound test. I wonder if that would work?

I agree, Wolfus. It's a good problem to have. 🤓

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Reply 4 of 11, by ptr1ck

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I spent the evening swapping cards around and ran 15 benchmarks of 3dMark03 sound tests. The Audigy 2 was the clear winner with the Santa Cruz just behind. The Xonar DG needs much more CPU, which is not surprising as it was released when Core2 was the norm.

Test system:
Athlon XP Barton @ 2315mhz
Nforce 2 Ultra
2gb DDR @ 420mhz 2.5-3-2-5
Radeon x1950 Pro AGP

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Last edited by ptr1ck on 2022-07-12, 03:18. Edited 3 times in total.

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Reply 5 of 11, by Sphere478

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audigy 2 zs is where it’s at.

Auzentech x-fi was probably the best pci soundcard though

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Reply 7 of 11, by dionb

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ptr1ck wrote on 2022-07-11, 23:37:

Dionb, I don't have 9x on the system.

I know, I was just saying it to contrast with XP. In XP you can probably get away with not reinstalling/re-imaging the system. Don't try that under Win98 though, was all I was saying 😉

That is interesting though about a timedemo. I've never thought about it more than what 3d Mark 2003 does for a sound test. I wonder if that would work?

Yes. Most likely with very similar results. It's just that I prefer benching actual applications used rather than artificial benchmarks, particularly one from an era notorious for drivers being written to identify the benchmark and modify behaviour for better results...

Q3A is a really good benchmark because it's so cleanly written and well-understood. I'm actually going to be using it at work in the near future for some network latency testing - in this case specifically because it doesn't have any modern workarounds for poor network performance. If your network hiccups, you instantly see it in Q3A, more so than in say Fortnite.

ptr1ck wrote on 2022-07-12, 02:48:
I spent the evening swapping cards around and ran 15 benchmarks of 3dMark03 sound tests. The Audigy 2 was the clear winner with […]
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I spent the evening swapping cards around and ran 15 benchmarks of 3dMark03 sound tests. The Audigy 2 was the clear winner with the Santa Cruz just behind. The Xonar DG needs much more CPU, which is not surprising as it was released when Core2 was the norm.

Test system:
Athlon XP Barton @ 2315mhz
Nforce 2 Ultra
2gb DDR @ 420mhz 2.5-3-2-5
Radeon x1950 Pro AGP

Great results. I doubt the age of the cards is too relevant in terms of performance, rather that the first two actually do quite a bit in hardware, where the Asus has a low-end C-Media chip that basically leaves all the processing to the CPU. I'm guessing a CMI-8378 chip from the same era as the Audigy2 and Santa Cruz would have shown similar performance.

Reply 8 of 11, by The Serpent Rider

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Audigy 2 has positional audio (early CMSS) and EAX4 support in hardware.
Santa Cruz has positional audio (Sensaura3D) and EAX2 in hardware.
Xonar DG is trash.

Sphere478 wrote:

Auzentech x-fi was probably the best pci soundcard though

Didn't have external I/O like X-Fi Elite, so nope. Although it could be main contender for PCI DSP with best analog signal.

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Reply 9 of 11, by ptr1ck

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dionb wrote on 2022-07-12, 08:57:

Great results. I doubt the age of the cards is too relevant in terms of performance, rather that the first two actually do quite a bit in hardware, where the Asus has a low-end C-Media chip that basically leaves all the processing to the CPU. I'm guessing a CMI-8378 chip from the same era as the Audigy2 and Santa Cruz would have shown similar performance.

That's pretty much what I was thinking except for I don't believe it matters if it's the low-end Xonar or high-end. I believe either one would count on offloading more to the CPU than either the Audigy or Santa Cruz.

The Serpent Rider- I wouldn't consider it trash for Windows 7 or newer; it's still a solid upgrade from latter model low-end onboard sound, like the Realtek ALC269 I have in an Optiplex 790. It is trash for a Windows XP build though. Seems like it comes down to Sensaura vs better EAX.

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Reply 10 of 11, by Joseph_Joestar

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-07-12, 09:21:

Audigy 2 has positional audio (early CMSS) and EAX4 support in hardware.

You can also get CMSS2 on any Audigy card (even the first one) when using the DanielK driver pack under WinXP.

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ptr1ck wrote on 2022-07-12, 15:10:

Seems like it comes down to Sensaura vs better EAX.

The Audigy's EAX3 is a pretty substantial upgrade from EAX2 which Sensaura uses. Especially if you're into stealth games like Splinter Cell.

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PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
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Reply 11 of 11, by The Serpent Rider

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Joseph_Joestar wrote:

You can also get CMSS2 on any Audigy card (even the first one) when using the DanielK driver pack under WinXP.

Technically, it comes to two variations - Audigy CMSS or X-Fi CMSS. Practically speaking, X-Fi implementation is improved Sensaura3D in anything but name (because Creative bought them).

You can also get CMSS2 on any Audigy card (even the first one) when using the DanielK driver pack under WinXP.

Well yeah, all true Audigy cards use the same DSP, with some minor tweaks.

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