Jo22 wrote on 2022-08-15, 22:43:

Hi everyone. […]
Show full quote

Hi everyone.

It has begun, it seems. There will be graphics cards that don't support older D3D anymore (natively).

A wrapper must be used, so that a newer (supported) Direct3D API can be used with DirectX 1-9 titles.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xe-ar … o-dx9-emulation

Until now, Windows 8-11 could support multiple DirectX runtime versions in parallel (DirectX 9, 10/11, 12?).
Applications/games could use them as needed and depending on what DDI version the GPU driver supported natively.
Running a DX9 game via DX10+ runtime wasn't completely unheard of, depending on how the game was coded.

Anyway, it's no big deal likely. To us, I mean.
Full PC emulators running Win98/XP do a better job sometimes than today's Windows.

Except.. Well, if someone has special needs. Say, running a multi-monitor setup for an older flight simulator. Or uses 4k/8k resolution. Things like this.

In that situation, the wrapper works well enough hopefully.
I mean OpemGL to Direct3D wrappers did an okay job in the XP/Vista era.

And software emulation can be okay, sometimes, too.
OpenGL 1.0-1.2 was done in software on old OSes by default. Windows NT 4, Windows 98SE..

Edit: Correction. NT 3.5=OpenGL 1. 0, NT 4.0= OpenGL 1.1, 98SE=?
https://retro.swarm.cz/nt4-opengl-mini-client … ti-rage-ii-pro/

Best regards,
Jo22

Edited. X2.

With dgvoodoo2 as Wrapper we have a rly good one so iam not worried to much.

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-08-15, 23:53:

Jo22 wrote on 2022-08-15, 22:43:

Hi everyone. […]
Show full quote

Hi everyone.

It has begun, it seems. There will be graphics cards that don't support older D3D anymore (natively).

A wrapper must be used, so that a newer (supported) Direct3D API can be used with DirectX 1-9 titles.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-xe-ar … o-dx9-emulation

Until now, Windows 8-11 could support multiple DirectX runtime versions in parallel (DirectX 9, 10/11, 12?).
Applications/games could use them as needed and depending on what DDI version the GPU driver supported natively.
Running a DX9 game via DX10+ runtime wasn't completely unheard of, depending on how the game was coded.

Anyway, it's no big deal likely. To us, I mean.
Full PC emulators running Win98/XP do a better job sometimes than today's Windows.

Except.. Well, if someone has special needs. Say, running a multi-monitor setup for an older flight simulator. Or uses 4k/8k resolution. Things like this.

In that situation, the wrapper works well enough hopefully.
I mean OpemGL to Direct3D wrappers did an okay job in the XP/Vista era.

And software emulation can be okay, sometimes, too.
OpenGL 1.0-1.2 was done in software on old OSes by default. Windows NT 4, Windows 98SE..

Edit: Correction. NT 3.5=OpenGL 1. 0, NT 4.0= OpenGL 1.1, 98SE=?
https://retro.swarm.cz/nt4-opengl-mini-client … ti-rage-ii-pro/

Best regards,
Jo22

Edited. X2.

With dgvoodoo2 as Wrapper we have a rly good one so iam not worried to much.

Thanks you for the tip! 😃👍

Peter.Mengel wrote on 2022-08-15, 23:53:

With dgvoodoo2 as Wrapper we have a rly good one so iam not worried to much.

I forgot to mention.. In the past, early 2010, I used to use DXGL on Windows XP/Vista/7.
It was a wrapper, too, but translated to OpenGL instead of Direct 3D 10/11.
https://dxgl.org/

Intel is bringing back DX9 support for some games, mostly popular FPS, by implementing DX9 in the latest drivers. I say some games, because the driver only recognizes a few at this time. A more comprehensive, general DX9 implementation will likely come in the future, allowing many more games to get the full power of ARC GPUs.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2022-12-08, 02:56:

Intel is bringing back DX9 support for some games, mostly popular FPS, by implementing DX9 in the latest drivers. I say some games, because the driver only recognizes a few at this time. A more comprehensive, general DX9 implementation will likely come in the future, allowing many more games to get the full power of ARC GPUs.

Is there a reason why your post sounds like an advertisement?
Heard they are using DXVK but rumour is they aren't giving them any credit but people poked through some files and noticed that's what they are using.

When people say they dropped DX9 support,I don't see the information complete, what about the older DX?

Do you see DirectDraw acceleration Disabled when you open dxdiag.exe? What is there under DirectDraw devices in DxCapsViewer? Months have passed but these information haven't been filled in. Probably every purchaser out there is a modern day gamer.

Are they using WARP? Did they throw DDrawCompat or WineD3D into the files like DXVK? Is old OpenGL 1.0 still working?

When people say they dropped DX9 support,I don't see the information complete, what about the older DX?

If it's DXVK they using, all older DX versions are included into DX9 wrapper. Probably very broken anyway and low priority. They fix it on per game basis, i.e. something that is popular and played to this day.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-12-08, 04:53:

When people say they dropped DX9 support,I don't see the information complete, what about the older DX?

If it's DXVK they using, all older DX versions are included into DX9 wrapper. Probably very broken anyway and low priority. They fix it on per game basis, i.e. something that is popular and played to this day.

DXVK doesn't handle anything for things older than D3D9. I tested this on a VM, I renamed d3d9.dll, d3d11.dll and dxgi.dll and ran games that need DX5 to DX7. The only thing I needed to restore was dxgi.dll, and it was expected. All games worked fine without any issue, regardless of having DXVK in a folder or not.

DXVK is present in the driver files, but the latest DxCaps info says Intel instead reused driver code from the Intel HD Graphics GPU drivers to implement DX9 API functionality. Several DXVK devs work for Intel, so it's inclusion in the driver is not surprising and it may be there to simply cover the DX9 bases, from a driver feature development standpoint.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-12-08, 06:16:

Is old OpenGL 1.0 still working?

OpenGL doesn't work like D3D. In OpenGL, each ICD (including the shader compiler and T&L routines) is done entirely by the hardware vendor and driver updates can affect it directly. In D3D, vendors only provide the DDI and the DX libraries takes care of the rest.

Intel clearly dropped support for DDI version 9 with their recent GPUs, no matter whether discrete or integrated. Dropping support for older OpenGL on an ICD requires forcing the core profile internally which lacks the "immediate mode" functions used on very old software.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-08, 15:04:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-12-08, 06:16:

Is old OpenGL 1.0 still working?

and driver updates can affect it directly.

So how is it now?

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-12-08, 17:28:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-08, 15:04:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-12-08, 06:16:

Is old OpenGL 1.0 still working?

and driver updates can affect it directly.

So how is it now?

AFAIK, nVidia and AMD cards still has the legacy functions when using the compatibility profile (older programs use it by default) in OpenGL. Haven't checked if the recent Intel's OpenGL ICD still has that profile though.

Early OpenGL's all about extensions, it's a feature chimera. I have an "OpenGL 2" renderer using GLSL very much in the same codebase to go back to 1.1 for working on the very GLSL-lacking not-even-GL1.0-compliant PowerVR PCX2. Fragment shaders or not, it's all to the same opengl32.dll much like those Win95 OSR2 3d screensavers were. This differs from DirectX's many different Direct3D APIs.