VOGONS


Reply 20 of 45, by Robhalfordfan

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mbliss11 wrote on 2020-07-09, 10:49:

That's awesome! Glad it worked out! I will check out those drivers with my M64 as well and see how they fair. I cannot remember which I used when I installed mine however none of the additional settings worked when I tried to adjust anything in the control panel.

On another note I have decided to go with another upgrade for the socket5 and acquired a powerleap upgrade kit with a few AMD CPU's that i am going to try out (K6-2 400, K6-3 400 and K6-2+ 450). The adapter and some of the chips should be arriving today interested to see the performance gains that this will provide with the M64. Been having a lot of fun hacking this thing up to boost its performance up to the max!

thank you and i can't remember what i did or how i did it to get the additional setting working but i am trying on another clean install of windows 95 and will put how i did it on here because i can't remember if i went to straight to v6.31 or install older or later version and install on top or uninstalled etc

thats good to hear and good luck with upgrade and fingers crossed 😀

i am thinking of upgrading the cpu to p233 mmx and maxing the ram out but will see how this goes first

Last edited by Robhalfordfan on 2020-07-09, 16:05. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 21 of 45, by Robhalfordfan

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got it working - here how i did it for windows 95

1 - install win95 (i used osr 2.5)
2- install drivers like normal
3- when installing M64 graphics drivers - install v6.31 manually via update driver in device manager (https://www.philscomputerlab.com/nvidia-9x-gr … cs-drivers.html)
4- install the coolbits_forceware.reg (get it from the above link)
5- install internet explorer 5.5 SP2 (i just installed everything)
6- this additional properties button/tab and output devices - device setting button/tab for M64 should now show and work now with no errors with its dll files

where it asks to restart the computer after anything - let it restart

NOTE - since these seem to be the "latest" version of the drivers for win 95 that has no errors with its dll files (dated 9-20-2000) - the latest version of DirectX that can be used without glitches in games is 7.0a

Reply 22 of 45, by kennyPENTIUMpowers

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hi there, just wondering was the m64 worthwhile upgrade over the virge?
i have a p150 with virge and can get a m64 ... but will it be worth it for pre 2000 games?

Reply 23 of 45, by RandomStranger

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kennyPENTIUMpowers wrote on 2022-08-17, 03:35:

hi there, just wondering was the m64 worthwhile upgrade over the virge?
i have a p150 with virge and can get a m64 ... but will it be worth it for pre 2000 games?

The TNT2M64 is not a bad card, only it's not a valuable collectible item. It's a huge improvement over a Virge.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 24 of 45, by 386SX

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I don't remember exactly the market period/month it was released and I've never tested it much but I do remember it was like everywhere. After some times you could have found a M64 video card in most computer stores and second hand cheap computer at a point that it became really boring to even find one. 😀

But I suppose it was a much better solution (if cheap) compared to many others for the common titles of that period, the usual low resolution CRT monitors, the common "low" frame rate expectations.

Reply 25 of 45, by RandomStranger

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In my experience, in period correct games and resolutions, it isn't much slower than the full 128bit TNT2 (non-pro/ultra). It's much more recent games where the 64bit bus starts to seriously bottleneck the card.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 26 of 45, by matze79

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Depends on the Resolution you want to play on.

If you use K6 a TNT2 M64 will be already bottlenecked.

Last edited by matze79 on 2022-08-17, 09:09. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 27 of 45, by 386SX

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Nowdays it make me think about all these cheap cards that were usually considered slow but they were all more than acceptable for the common videogamer considering the previous 3D video card generation results. At the end many went for the high end when as long as CRT existed with its native resolutions even the Savage4 could have been a good card for quite some time.

Reply 28 of 45, by matze79

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For his Pentium 133Mhz, the best Choice is a 3Dfx Voodoo Graphics combined with Riva 128 / Diamond Viper 330.

it will suit all Games that run well on P133.

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https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 29 of 45, by 386SX

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Even if I understand the Voodoo Glide API need and compatibility for those times, I'd feel in those times like having the Voodoo with the Riva128 would have been an expensive choice when the Riva128 with latest drivers could have been "enough", if accepting its "alternative rendering" quality. Even if the P-133 is on the low level vga requirement (beside the very low ones of the usual card box like "Pentium 90 for the Voodoo3 2000"...).

Reply 30 of 45, by Ydee

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386SX wrote on 2022-08-17, 09:26:

Even if I understand the Voodoo Glide API need and compatibility for those times, I'd feel in those times like having the Voodoo with the Riva128 would have been an expensive choice when the Riva128 with latest drivers could have been "enough", if accepting its "alternative rendering" quality. Even if the P-133 is on the low level vga requirement (beside the very low ones of the usual card box like "Pentium 90 for the Voodoo3 2000"...).

Isn't the P90 (but also the 133-166-200-233MMX) too weak for V3 2k cards? I've been thinking about building it with the K6-2 500, and it's not exactly a big deal there, either. It feels used so much with the Pentium III around 700 MHz. The K6-2 500 will be better fitted with TNT2 M64 Vanta or Savage4 Pro?

Reply 31 of 45, by 386SX

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Ydee wrote on 2022-08-17, 12:47:
386SX wrote on 2022-08-17, 09:26:

Even if I understand the Voodoo Glide API need and compatibility for those times, I'd feel in those times like having the Voodoo with the Riva128 would have been an expensive choice when the Riva128 with latest drivers could have been "enough", if accepting its "alternative rendering" quality. Even if the P-133 is on the low level vga requirement (beside the very low ones of the usual card box like "Pentium 90 for the Voodoo3 2000"...).

Isn't the P90 (but also the 133-166-200-233MMX) too weak for V3 2k cards? I've been thinking about building it with the K6-2 500, and it's not exactly a big deal there, either. It feels used so much with the Pentium III around 700 MHz. The K6-2 500 will be better fitted with TNT2 M64 Vanta or Savage4 Pro?

Those slow cpu are not enough for a Voodoo3 while as usual on the box the basic requirement written was the Pentium 90 which realistically who would have used in those times, I suppose even with Glide API based titles (edit: I mean the config will work probably but realistically it would not make much sense a PCI Voodoo3 on a Pentium 90 IMHO). I had in their times that card on a K6-2 350 and the K6-2 550 and the cpu was still a huge bottleneck (probably the FPU more than anything else). I'd say the +200Mhz jump was a sad upgrade in games. The problem also was that the Voodoo3 wasn't imho worth its release price and required anyway some powerful cpu at the end while it could be used on slower machines more than other brand cards just like happened with the VoodooII/I.

Reply 32 of 45, by Robhalfordfan

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i went back virge/voodoo 1 because even with p233 mmx, there was very little improvement but there was a bottleneck, if it was a faster/better cpu then maybe deffo better but with p1 era cpu, not much

Reply 33 of 45, by luk1999

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If you're looking for a decent upgrade, Voodoo Banshee might be a good choice (but I wouldn't expect miracles) and it should be cheaper than V2 (and it will give you similar if not a bit better performance in newer 3D games).
It has great DOS performance and compatibility, supports glide (obvious) and has significantly lower CPU overhead comparing to TnTs.

TnT and crippled TnT2 really need a "fast" CPU to give you significant performance boost comparing to yours V1, especially in late 1998 games (like SiN, HalfLife or Blood 2). IMO something like Pentium II 300 or Celeron 300A should be a minimum choice.

Pentium 4 2400 + ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe + 2 GB RAM + GF FX5700 128 MB AGP + SB Audigy + Chieftec GPS-400AA-101A + Win XP SP2
Duron 1000 + Soltek SL-75DRV4 + 256 MB RAM + Voodoo 3 2000 16 MB AGP + FM801 + FSP 400-60PFN + Win 98SE

Reply 34 of 45, by Robhalfordfan

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luk1999 wrote on 2022-08-31, 17:25:

If you're looking for a decent upgrade, Voodoo Banshee might be a good choice (but I wouldn't expect miracles) and it should be cheaper than V2 (and it will give you similar if not a bit better performance in newer 3D games).
It has great DOS performance and compatibility, supports glide (obvious) and has significantly lower CPU overhead comparing to TnTs.

TnT and crippled TnT2 really need a "fast" CPU to give you significant performance boost comparing to yours V1, especially in late 1998 games (like SiN, HalfLife or Blood 2). IMO something like Pentium II 300 or Celeron 300A should be a minimum choice.

would the banshee be improvment over v1/virge and does it need to paired with another card like v1

i do have a windows 98 build that early p4 cpu and covers games late 90s to early 2000s era, odd late 90s games run a little too fast on the p4 but slowish on the p233 mmx build with v1/virge

Reply 35 of 45, by Putas

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Robhalfordfan wrote on 2022-09-20, 13:29:

would the banshee be improvment over v1/virge and does it need to paired with another card like v1

It guarantees double performance easily and does not need any other video card.

Reply 36 of 45, by TrashPanda

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luk1999 wrote on 2022-08-31, 17:25:

If you're looking for a decent upgrade, Voodoo Banshee might be a good choice (but I wouldn't expect miracles) and it should be cheaper than V2 (and it will give you similar if not a bit better performance in newer 3D games).
It has great DOS performance and compatibility, supports glide (obvious) and has significantly lower CPU overhead comparing to TnTs.

TnT and crippled TnT2 really need a "fast" CPU to give you significant performance boost comparing to yours V1, especially in late 1998 games (like SiN, HalfLife or Blood 2). IMO something like Pentium II 300 or Celeron 300A should be a minimum choice.

PCI Banshees are currently selling for more than Voodoo2s, in fact all PCI 3dfx cards are stupidly priced, AGP versions are much cheaper.

Its hard to recommend any PCI based Voodoo card right now due to the crazy pricing but since OP needs a PCI card the PCI M64 would be the cheaper option here.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 37 of 45, by Robhalfordfan

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Putas wrote on 2022-09-21, 08:44:
Robhalfordfan wrote on 2022-09-20, 13:29:

would the banshee be improvment over v1/virge and does it need to paired with another card like v1

It guarantees double performance easily and does not need any other video card.

I did think that but wasn't 100% sure, thanks for clarifying 😀

prob a stupid question to ask but could the v1 be paired with a banshee or would that clash since there both 3dfx based cards

Last edited by Robhalfordfan on 2022-09-21, 10:20. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 38 of 45, by Robhalfordfan

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-21, 09:45:
luk1999 wrote on 2022-08-31, 17:25:

If you're looking for a decent upgrade, Voodoo Banshee might be a good choice (but I wouldn't expect miracles) and it should be cheaper than V2 (and it will give you similar if not a bit better performance in newer 3D games).
It has great DOS performance and compatibility, supports glide (obvious) and has significantly lower CPU overhead comparing to TnTs.

TnT and crippled TnT2 really need a "fast" CPU to give you significant performance boost comparing to yours V1, especially in late 1998 games (like SiN, HalfLife or Blood 2). IMO something like Pentium II 300 or Celeron 300A should be a minimum choice.

PCI Banshees are currently selling for more than Voodoo2s, in fact all PCI 3dfx cards are stupidly priced, AGP versions are much cheaper.

Its hard to recommend any PCI based Voodoo card right now due to the crazy pricing but since OP needs a PCI card the PCI M64 would be the cheaper option here.

i did notice the prices pci based 3dfx cards are bit insane right now but 3dfx cards, pci or agp have always insanely priced

i did get tnt2 m64 - 32 mb card but there little improvement due bottleneck and went back to virge/v1 setup

maybe one find a card that gives improvement without bottle necking the system or maybe the current setup is best its gonna get without doing a whole new build

Reply 39 of 45, by TrashPanda

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Robhalfordfan wrote on 2022-09-21, 10:19:
i did notice the prices pci based 3dfx cards are bit insane right now but 3dfx cards, pci or agp have always insanely priced […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-21, 09:45:
luk1999 wrote on 2022-08-31, 17:25:

If you're looking for a decent upgrade, Voodoo Banshee might be a good choice (but I wouldn't expect miracles) and it should be cheaper than V2 (and it will give you similar if not a bit better performance in newer 3D games).
It has great DOS performance and compatibility, supports glide (obvious) and has significantly lower CPU overhead comparing to TnTs.

TnT and crippled TnT2 really need a "fast" CPU to give you significant performance boost comparing to yours V1, especially in late 1998 games (like SiN, HalfLife or Blood 2). IMO something like Pentium II 300 or Celeron 300A should be a minimum choice.

PCI Banshees are currently selling for more than Voodoo2s, in fact all PCI 3dfx cards are stupidly priced, AGP versions are much cheaper.

Its hard to recommend any PCI based Voodoo card right now due to the crazy pricing but since OP needs a PCI card the PCI M64 would be the cheaper option here.

i did notice the prices pci based 3dfx cards are bit insane right now but 3dfx cards, pci or agp have always insanely priced

i did get tnt2 m64 - 32 mb card but there little improvement due bottleneck and went back to virge/v1 setup

maybe one find a card that gives improvement without bottle necking the system or maybe the current setup is best its gonna get without doing a whole new build

Honestly it being a Pentium MMX is the bottle neck here with that CPU the Virge/M64 with the Voodoo1 is as good as it gets, the good thing about the M64 is that if you decide you want to move to a K6-2/3 build then you can take it with you and it will be a nice GPU until you decide you want to move to AGP.

That Voodoo 1 will be a nice card to keep even in an AGP setup since it will let you play any Glide games you come across.

So the TL;DR here is that the Pentium MMX is holding you back here along with the lack of AGP. (You found this out yourself when even the M64 didn't improve things)

Edit - Pairing the V1 with a Banshee would be pretty pointless, the Banshee can play Glide games better than the V1 and the drivers will very likely throw a fit since they both use the same/similar Glide drivers.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁