I've no interest in getting anything older than a 386 and anything newer than a Core2Quad or Phenom 2.

Though there are exceptions on both ends.
On the low end I probably wouldn't actively use anything slower than a 486DX2-66, but on the top-end I would go for an Ivy Bridge T series i3 if I'd want to build a super compact, super low-power XP box. Those easily run with a passive heatsink.

For me, anything higher than 2004/2005 is too modern for me, especially if it doesn't have the capability of running DOS or using ISA cards.

dormcat wrote on 2022-10-17, 04:16:

I've got two lines: For "using" the line is Intel Triton chipset, notably because of its integrated IDE controller supporting up to four IDE devices. For "collecting" the line is 80386DX, the first IA-32 CPU.

The island is small and humid (Taipei just got 1105.5mm rainfall in 48 hours this weekend); one has to be either very rich or in a rural village with farmland to be able to keep many unused vintage computers in working orders. Places like Computer Reset is simply unthinkable.

Where I live isn't especially humid, but metal parts sometimes do rust. So I've been thinking about long term storage and how to prevent that, maybe vacuum bags for clothes storage with some desiccant packs would help?

I'm only worried what would happen to electrolytic caps if I suck the air out, it's not 100% vacuum, but it would be lower than atmospheric pressure...

On topic... So far in PC world from 486 to late XP (Core 2 Duo, Athlon X2), for rest C64, C128 and Amigas (but wedge keyboard models only, don't have space for big box amigas).

My bottom border is a 486 DX 50 - with one exception to my first 386 SX 20.
My top border is a Pentium 3 Tualatin.
They all have to be able to add a Sound Blaster compatible card that can be used in DOS.
Anything above I do not consider as retro.

Bottom limit is 286 like my first PC. I don't have any interest in XT era. Before 286 I had Atari. So my collection starts with Atari 800XL, 1040STFM and Amiga 1200. With PC I don't have an upper limit. But I don't actively search/buy "newer" things. My main focus is still era from 1990-2000.

I never had any consoles in that time. But I own a few now (Atari 2600jr, SNES, Sega Mega Drive + MegaCD, Saturn, PS2) and I still hate gamepads 🤣

Disruptor wrote on 2022-10-17, 08:25:

My bottom border is a 486 DX 50 - with one exception to my first 386 SX 20. My top border is a Pentium 3 Tualatin. They all have […]
Show full quote

My bottom border is a 486 DX 50 - with one exception to my first 386 SX 20.
My top border is a Pentium 3 Tualatin.
They all have to be able to add a Sound Blaster compatible card that can be used in DOS.
Anything above I do not consider as retro.

Socket A and Socket 423 are certainly retro systems, if you are going to include Tualatin then anything of comparable age and capability is also retro. I include 423 here because it was such a dogs breakfast that even a decently tuned 1.4s Tually could happily match it.

Also both Socket A and 423 do have ISA capable boards.

What are my limits? Well, I have quite a different approach. Since I'm not a gamer and I have zero nostalgia about my childhood computing experience, my desire is to build a collection that consists of:

1. Abacuses
2. Slide rulers
3. Mechanical adding machines
4. Electronic calculators

No more than two or three of each of the above categories, and rather a small size models.

When it comes to a computers era, I have / would like to have:

1. Z-80, Intel 8085 and Intel 8086 processors training kits.
2. Dumb Terminal
3. First laptops with BASIC language support like Epson HX-20 and TRS-80 Model 100.
4. Pocket Computers with BASIC language support, like Sharp PC-1500 for example.
5. Modern replica of a Mini-computer (PiDP-8 or PiDP-11).
6. CP/M capable Z-80 based laptops like Epson PX-8 for example.
7. MS-DOS capable laptops/portables with the Amstrad PPC640 at one end of the spectrum and the IBM Thinkpad T42 on the other, and few interesting models in between. I'm not so much into a Windows era, but would be glad to be able to use Windows 3.1, Windows 95/98, Windows NT/2000 and Windows XP.
8. MS-DOS capable palmtops like HP 200LX.
9. PDAs like IBM Workpad (rebadged Palm / Palm III PDA).
10. WinCE palmtops like IBM Workpad Z50 and HP Jornada 720.

I'm not into hoarding and would like to have rather a small number of units from each category, and what is the most important for me, is to have as much peripheral devices and accessories as possible, so you can play with those devices, connect them between each other and do other things.

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-10-17, 08:39:

What are my limits? Well, I have quite a different approach. Since I'm not a gamer and I have zero nostalgia about my childhood […]
Show full quote

What are my limits? Well, I have quite a different approach. Since I'm not a gamer and I have zero nostalgia about my childhood computing experience, my desire is to build a collection that consists of:

1. Abacuses
2. Slide rulers
3. Mechanical adding machines
4. Electronic calculators

No more than two or three of each of above category, and rather a small size models.

When it comes to a computers era, I have / would like to have:

1. Z-80, Intel 8085 and Intel 8086 processors training kits.
2. Dumb Terminal
3. First laptops with BASIC language support like Epson HX-20 and TRS-80 Model 100.
4. Pocket Computers with BASIC language support, like Sharp PC-1500 for example.
5. Modern replica of a Mini-computer (PiDP-8 or PiDP-11).
6. CP/M capable Z-80 based laptops like Epson PX-8 for example.
7. MS-DOS capable laptops/portables with the Amstrad PPC640 at one end of the spectrum and the IBM Thinkpad T42 on the other, and few interesting models in between. I'm not so much into a Windows era, but would be glad to be able to use Windows 3.1, Windows 95/98, Windows NT/2000 and Windows XP.
8. MS-DOS capable palmtops like HP 200LX.
9. PDAs like IBM Workpad (rebadged Palm / Palm III PDA).
10. WinCE palmtops like IBM Workpad Z50 and HP Jornada 720.

I'm not into hoarding and would like to have rather a small number units from each category, and what is the most important for me, as much peripheral devices and accessories as possible, so you can play with those devices, connect them between each other and do other things.

I too would love a nice Z-80 setup but I have little experience with such computers.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-10-17, 08:41:

I too would love a nice Z-80 setup but I have little experience with such computers.

I have a zero experience with Z-80 computers, and for me it would be very interesting to play with an unfamiliar type of hardware as long as it supports BASIC language and / or CP/M.

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-10-16, 23:56:

Given the Amiga's reputation in the tracker music / demoscene, I've always been curious about them for that reason. I was big into tracker music and demos back in the day, but never used or worked with an Amiga.

Maybe I'll grab one one day and find out what they are all about...

You should. At least an Amiga500, as they were kind of the defacto machine for home uses (Amiga users only). It is also the cheapest to get up and running.
All you need is an a500, then upgrade with 512k Trapdoor Ram, one of them RaspberryPI powered RGB-to-HDMI upgrades and then a Gotek drive.
Sure you can upgrade with accelerators and stuff, and there are full 16gb HDD-Image files with WHD-Loader setup and more.
But at the end of the day, all you need are those upgrades I mentioned. If you just want some tracker, demo's and like 80% of all games running.

Make sure it is an Amiga500 Revision 6a and not Revision 5. As the revision5 have some issues with kickstart. But that can be fixed with a board
that provides the missing resistors between the board and the rom-chip. You can also upgrade Rev6a and upwards to 1 or 2 MB Chipram.
Keep away from the 500-Plus (Rev 8a) as it is the only 500 that comes with a varta on the motherboard.
If you really want a Plus model, get the 8a.1 which is basically a plus without battery and real time clock and then factory downgraded to non-Plus.
It is basically the same chips as a full Amiga500-Plus machine. Downside of Plus spec's is that you can only use trapdoor as ChipRam.
If you want to use more than 2mb Ram (only configured as ChipRam), you have to install Ram in the Zorro slot on the side, or between board and CPU.

But back in the days. We all just ran with 512k Chip and 512k SlowRam (pseudo-ChipRam) in the trapdoor.
Good enough back then, for trackers/demo's/games, and good enough today for most use case's. Just remember at least those upgrades I mentioned.

brostenen wrote on 2022-10-17, 09:00:

You should. At least an Amiga500, as they were kind of the defacto machine for home uses (Amiga users only). It is also the chea […]
Show full quote

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-10-16, 23:56:

Given the Amiga's reputation in the tracker music / demoscene, I've always been curious about them for that reason. I was big into tracker music and demos back in the day, but never used or worked with an Amiga.

Maybe I'll grab one one day and find out what they are all about...

You should. At least an Amiga500, as they were kind of the defacto machine for home uses (Amiga users only). It is also the cheapest to get up and running.
All you need is an a500, then upgrade with 512k Trapdoor Ram, one of them RaspberryPI powered RGB-to-HDMI upgrades and then a Gotek drive.
Sure you can upgrade with accelerators and stuff, and there are full 16gb HDD-Image files with WHD-Loader setup and more.
But at the end of the day, all you need are those upgrades I mentioned. If you just want some tracker, demo's and like 80% of all games running.

Make sure it is an Amiga500 Revision 6a and not Revision 5. As the revision5 have some issues with kickstart. But that can be fixed with a board
that provides the missing resistors between the board and the rom-chip. You can also upgrade Rev6a and upwards to 1 or 2 MB Chipram.
Keep away from the 500-Plus (Rev 8a) as it is the only 500 that comes with a varta on the motherboard.
If you really want a Plus model, get the 8a.1 which is basically a plus without battery and real time clock and then factory downgraded to non-Plus.
It is basically the same chips as a full Amiga500-Plus machine. Downside of Plus spec's is that you can only use trapdoor as ChipRam.
If you want to use more than 2mb Ram (only configured as ChipRam), you have to install Ram in the Zorro slot on the side, or between board and CPU.

But back in the days. We all just ran with 512k Chip and 512k SlowRam (pseudo-ChipRam) in the trapdoor.
Good enough back then, for trackers/demo's/games, and good enough today for most use case's. Just remember at least those upgrades I mentioned.

WinUAE is a good alternative if they just want to see if they want to take the jump, would let them check out all the software and trackers, its no replacement for real hardware but UAE is damn near as close as you can get.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-10-17, 09:46:

WinUAE is a good alternative if they just want to see if they want to take the jump, would let them check out all the software and trackers, its no replacement for real hardware but UAE is damn near as close as you can get.

Yes. It is close. Really close. But there are a few things that makes me only use, in my case FS-UAE on Linux, in rare cases such as file transfer. For writing directly on a FFS formatted Amiga HDD or CF-Card on a non Amiga, then I use my Linux setup and Midnight Commander. Linux can mount FFS in read/write mode. The other thing that makes me not use UAE, is the fact that I have real hardware, and the experience of touching and operating the real hardware is not there. However that is a hardware issue and not a software issue. And you also have the same kind of issue so to speak, when running UAE on a modern Amiga-One, that are basically an ATX version of a PPC powered AmigaOS4 system. You know x1000 and x5000 boards. Those on the other hand, have a price tag that are only for dedicated hardcore Amiga people. I am not one such.

Speaking of Linux. If you install the program called XDMS. Then you can convert DMS files to ADF files in one line. Just type: "xdms -u filename.dms" and it will dump the DMS file into an ADF file with same name.

brostenen wrote on 2022-10-17, 10:00:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-10-17, 09:46:

WinUAE is a good alternative if they just want to see if they want to take the jump, would let them check out all the software and trackers, its no replacement for real hardware but UAE is damn near as close as you can get.

Yes. It is close. Really close. But there are a few things that makes me only use, in my case FS-UAE on Linux, in rare cases such as file transfer. For writing directly on a FFS formatted Amiga HDD or CF-Card on a non Amiga, then I use my Linux setup and Midnight Commander. Linux can mount FFS in read/write mode. The other thing that makes me not use UAE, is the fact that I have real hardware, and the experience of touching and operating the real hardware is not there. However that is a hardware issue and not a software issue. And you also have the same kind of issue so to speak, when running UAE on a modern Amiga-One, that are basically an ATX version of a PPC powered AmigaOS4 system. You know x1000 and x5000 boards. Those on the other hand, have a price tag that are only for dedicated hardcore Amiga people. I am not one such.

Speaking of Linux. If you install the program called XDMS. Then you can convert DMS files to ADF files in one line. Just type: "xdms -u filename.dms" and it will dump the DMS file into an ADF file with same name.

I use UAE to emulate an Amiga that I could have never afforded back in the day, its as close as Ill ever get to owning such a setup, I also use it to brew custom OS setups and configs before trying them out on my A1200. The A1200 is fully kitted out with period correct hardware but its showing its age and I think I might start to mod in some QOL stuff for it soon, like a Gotek and HDMI. (Also the Monitor which is original is getting long in the tooth and the phosphor on the tube is showing degradation)

Downwards - 486 PCI is my bottom limit
Upwards - Generation 4 would be the top I'd go.

This would be purely because I have big issues finding enough parts required for ISA 486 and lower, and prices for DDR4 are still too expensive for me to consider Skylake or higher in any kind of way.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-10-17, 10:08:

I use UAE to emulate an Amiga that I could have never afforded back in the day, its as close as Ill ever get to owning such a setup, I also use it to brew custom OS setups and configs before trying them out on my A1200. The A1200 is fully kitted out with period correct hardware but its showing its age and I think I might start to mod in some QOL stuff for it soon, like a Gotek and HDMI. (Also the Monitor which is original is getting long in the tooth and the phosphor on the tube is showing degradation)

WinUAE or FS-UAE have it's uses. There are also that Pi-Miga image that are for a RaspberryPI PI-400 machine. It has some issues like sound getting out of sync, but a version 3.0 is in the making as far as I believe. I have also tested a couple of them Pi-Storm boards. But the software is not fully there for old OCS games and Demo's. On the other hand, it is perfect for productivity on the Amiga.

For a HDMI solution for Amiga1200, then the best one to date, is the IndivisionAGA-KM3 scandoubler. I have one such in my 1200 and it is really close to a CRT experience. What I dont miss about CRT's are the coil-noise and the space such a monitor takes up. Just imagive having a 25 to 50 inch CRT on the desk these days. 😳 The issue you are mentioning with recapping. Yes, everything computing this old and older, need to be recapped at some point sooner or later. Just a fact of our hobby. Worst examples are these chinese caps from around 1990'ish to 2010'ish.

brostenen wrote on 2022-10-17, 10:23:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-10-17, 10:08:

I use UAE to emulate an Amiga that I could have never afforded back in the day, its as close as Ill ever get to owning such a setup, I also use it to brew custom OS setups and configs before trying them out on my A1200. The A1200 is fully kitted out with period correct hardware but its showing its age and I think I might start to mod in some QOL stuff for it soon, like a Gotek and HDMI. (Also the Monitor which is original is getting long in the tooth and the phosphor on the tube is showing degradation)

WinUAE or FS-UAE have it's uses. There are also that Pi-Miga image that are for a RaspberryPI PI-400 machine. It has some issues like sound getting out of sync, but a version 3.0 is in the making as far as I believe. I have also tested a couple of them Pi-Storm boards. But the software is not fully there for old OCS games and Demo's. On the other hand, it is perfect for productivity on the Amiga.

For a HDMI solution for Amiga1200, then the best one to date, is the IndivisionAGA-KM3 scandoubler. I have one such in my 1200 and it is really close to a CRT experience. What I dont miss about CRT's are the coil-noise and the space such a monitor takes up. Just imagive having a 25 to 50 inch CRT on the desk these days. 😳 The issue you are mentioning with recapping. Yes, everything computing this old and older, need to be recapped at some point sooner or later. Just a fact of our hobby. Worst examples are these chinese caps from around 1990'ish to 2010'ish.

Recapping can be a nightmare trying to find suitable replacement caps, soon I will have to recap a Gigabyte GA-6VTXDR which has two bulging caps, it still functions fine but yeah its going to be fun finding suitable caps to replace the 27 or so caps on that board. Though it might be easier to just check the caps that look fine and only change out the bulging ones, its a damn solid board and nigh impossible to replace it due to its rarity and cost so perhaps some caution is needed.

As for the Commodore 1940 monitor .. I dont think I will even touch it, the tube is the part going bad and there is little to nothing I can do to fix it besides replacing the tube, since the monitor is in pretty much mint condition cosmetically it might be worth putting it into storage and eventually selling it to a collector who has the expertise to replace the tube.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-10-17, 08:36:

Socket A and Socket 423 are certainly retro systems, if you are going to include Tualatin then anything of comparable age and capability is also retro. I include 423 here because it was such a dogs breakfast that even a decently tuned 1.4s Tually could happily match it.

Also both Socket A and 423 do have ISA capable boards.

Perhaps I draw my personal border at 50 Watt Maximum Power Dissipation.
So, no Netburst fail at all.

Realistically I'm not interested in anything below 486's which was our first PC.
I wouldn't say no to something earlier to tinker with if someone offered it for next to nothing but even the 486's don't get much use with more capable computers in my collection.
My slot 1 builds get the most use, they can run most of my DOS/Win9x games without any compromise.
or my LGA775 XP build which runs later 9x titles though too my newest XP games just fine. Even though it does lack that retro feel.

Like OP our very first computer was a Apple IIe but have no real desire for one, even back then the games were a bit basic for my pre teen tastes and the few games I do get a itch to play emulation is enough.
That said if any 8 bit PC's came my way for free I wouldn't say no, even if it was for a little bit then to pass on like the Amstrad PCW I scored few years ago and since given away again.

Most Modern build I'll be "excited" about will be a LGA1155 WinXP/Win7 build to cover those few last games. even though at the moment I don't own anything newer then 775 which is just fine really but I like pushing OS's massively overkill rigs

Heh, cool topic. I guess the window is different for everyone.
My dad was in IT and let me use his stuff, so I 'had' PCs from a pretty early age. First one was a 286. I mainly played games on them, and still do, so I classify systems by which games they play.
For me the lower cutoff is Wolfenstein 3D and SimCity. I don't have many memories of earlier games and are not interested in them. So I don't have anything below 386 anymore. Preference is on 486-early P1 pure DOS for C&C and RA.

Back in the day I had a 486 for the longest time, and missed the whole P1 era with MMX, 3DFX etc, so no nostalgia for that stuff. Above that I have fond memories (LAN parties!) of early nVidia and slot 1 (PII/III)- Half-life, RTCW, UT99, Q3. My upper limit are the windows xp machines with P4 and early core that I had in university.

Anything beyond that I consider 'modern', although the machines I currently use at home (Thinkpad X220 and souped up Dell XPS420 (C2Q) are already considered retro by some 😀

Disruptor wrote on 2022-10-17, 11:52:

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-10-17, 08:36:

Socket A and Socket 423 are certainly retro systems, if you are going to include Tualatin then anything of comparable age and capability is also retro. I include 423 here because it was such a dogs breakfast that even a decently tuned 1.4s Tually could happily match it.

Also both Socket A and 423 do have ISA capable boards.

Perhaps I draw my personal border at 50 Watt Maximum Power Dissipation.
So, no Netburst fail at all.

Ah I see another person who hates netburst but fails to realize that the majority of what netburst achieved went on to be integrated into the P3 architecture to become Core series of CPUs. Netburst wasn't a total failure, it was just implemented in a manner it wasn't compatible with and against the stupid speed race of the times.