VOGONS


First post, by smoke86

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I have a problem with a Lucky Star 5MMVP4 board - onboard graphics adapter is very (and I mean VERY) dim - to the point I cannot see anything during POST.
Anything other works fine. External PCI S3 Virge graphisc adapter works fine and displays properly.
I could only figure it out that is is actually sort of working when it booted to Windows and I saw icons on the desktop. It actually looks like a laptop screen without any backlight.
I resoldered VGA connector but it did not help.
I will seek for shorted caps, but I am no expert in graphics adapters and I would love some advice.

Reply 1 of 52, by majestyk

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Any settings in BIOS, like they can be found in Notebooks ("normal/dim/bright")?
Otherwise I´d suspect a hardware issue around the graphics chip = northbridge.

Reply 2 of 52, by smoke86

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No settings for that, it's just regular AWARD BIOS of the time (I flashed it to latest version, but it did not change anything).
I don't think a nothbridge is a culprit, I suspect something between northbridge and VGA connector.
Or maybe shorted connector? Shorted cap? Screwy resistor?
Nothing is obviously hot, so I keep on searching through SMD components.

Reply 3 of 52, by majestyk

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Exactly - that´s why I wrote "around the chip", although the chip itself *could* be the culprit in the end.
I would focus on this area first:

The attachment mvp4_video1.JPG is no longer available

Reply 4 of 52, by smoke86

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Yeah, I'll give a multimeter a go over this.
Not that this graphics is a thing worth saving, Riva Vanta TNT2 put in PCI slot makes mucha better job, but I just want that board to be 100% fine.

Reply 5 of 52, by rasz_pl

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vga output is accomplished thru DACs, and those require VREF (reference voltage to set the proper levels). just an example https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-doc … ets/adv7120.pdf
what are the markings on D15 diode?

https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
https://github.com/raszpl/440BX Reference Design adapted to Kicad
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS MFM-300 Monitor

Reply 6 of 52, by smoke86

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Here it is.
Besides, it looks to me like it is not getting enough output voltage.

Reply 8 of 52, by BitWrangler

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Maybe a thing to consider is that the ESR for those caps has gone high for high frequencies., even though they look unbloaty.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 9 of 52, by rasz_pl

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vga signal doesnt cross electrolytic caps 😀 only inductors with pico range caps going to ground (low pass filter) and clamping diodes for some ESD protection.
Sadly I dont think I have diagrams for such old motherboards 🙁 VT8501 chipset has integrated Trident Blade3D core. If VIA just plopped Trident design into their own then Vref is internal so there is nothing to be done here.

https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
https://github.com/raszpl/440BX Reference Design adapted to Kicad
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS MFM-300 Monitor

Reply 10 of 52, by smoke86

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D16 is 'MS 20' (Schottky diode?)
D11 is 'TL 431A 9E33' (voltage reference?)

Reply 11 of 52, by Roman555

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smoke86 wrote on 2022-10-19, 19:38:

I have a problem with a Lucky Star 5MMVP4 board - onboard graphics adapter is very (and I mean VERY) dim - to the point I cannot see anything during POST.
...

Hi,
There's a schematic diagram of a similar mainboard ( GA-5VMM VIA MVP4 NORTH BRIDGE VT82C501 SOUTH BRIDGE VT82C686 ).
Maybe it'll help
mvp4-vga.png mvp4-vga-conn.png

[ MS6168/PII-350/YMF754/98SE ]
[ 775i65G/E5500/9800Pro/Vortex2/ME ]

Reply 12 of 52, by rasz_pl

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smoke86 wrote on 2022-10-20, 09:25:

D16 is 'MS 20' (Schottky diode?)
D11 is 'TL 431A 9E33' (voltage reference?)

can you be this lucky? 😀 measure voltage on D11, it can be the source for our video DAC Vref. If its blown and not providing set voltage all teh outputs will be very low or zero. Some random reference voltage tutorial for beginners https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NecbHbGAkkc
Its also possible its a part of some power supply together with the Q4 mosfet and has nothing to do with Video 🙁

Edit:

Roman555 wrote on 2022-10-20, 15:32:

There's a schematic diagram of a similar mainboard ( GA-5VMM VIA MVP4 NORTH BRIDGE VT82C501 SOUTH BRIDGE VT82C686 ).

This is fantastic! 👍 D11 together with Q4 might be providing dedicated analog supply for VT8501. On your diagram Gigabyte opted to just powering Analog section from single LDO providing Digital 2.5V supply.

So smoke86, measure D11 (pin 1 reference, its the one closest to the battery) and Q4 (drain and source, middle pad and pin closest to D11) voltage

https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
https://github.com/raszpl/440BX Reference Design adapted to Kicad
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS MFM-300 Monitor

Reply 13 of 52, by smoke86

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D11 reference to (ceb703al, which looks like mosfet) source measured REALLY close to 0 (something like 0.009V). Does it means D11 is blown?

Reply 14 of 52, by rasz_pl

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How is D11 wired? are pins 1 and 3 connected to each other? I would solder it out and measure out of circuit
if you want to quickly check if thats it without waiting for parts you can look for another TL431 in old junk power supplies

Edit: wait. I didnt mean "D11 reference to source". I meant measure all with reference to Ground. so
- D11 pin 1 to ground voltage
-Q4 drain to ground
-Q4 source to ground

https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
https://github.com/raszpl/440BX Reference Design adapted to Kicad
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS MFM-300 Monitor

Reply 15 of 52, by smoke86

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- D11 pin 1 to ground voltage - >2,47V
-Q4 drain to ground - > 4,76V
-Q4 source to ground - > 2,49V

Reply 17 of 52, by smoke86

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Sorry, drain to ground is 4,46, not 4,74V

Reply 18 of 52, by rasz_pl

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Yes, sadly looks ok. You could maybe try to follow Q4 source track/vias all the way to the chip, maybe there is a fuse/inductor in the way that is blown/chipped.
other than that set meter to diode mode and (on powered off system) check 5 diodes there. Its highly unlikely, but theoretically possible that all ESD protection clamping diodes are blown?

https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
https://github.com/raszpl/440BX Reference Design adapted to Kicad
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS MFM-300 Monitor

Reply 19 of 52, by smoke86

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Diodes are ok.
Cannot see anything crooked yet.
Here's a photo of that area.