Shagittarius wrote on 2022-11-08, 16:52:

Good point, we should stop overclocking everything STAT!

Uncalled-for sarcasm and missed point aside, yes, overclocking is currently dead, nobody should 'overclock' anything anymore.
Because what made overclocking great (i.e.: buying a cheaper part and turning it into a much more expensive part) has long since been dead.
Nowadays you buy some of the most expensive parts for the privilege of being able to overclock them, which will increase their performance by an incredible... 3 - 5% and the power consumption by... 50%+.

It will just come down to how AMD cards perform in real world gaming.
If they do 90% of the task, while using 1/3 less power and costing 1/3 less.......then it is a very clear that 4000 series nVidia cards are a bad value.
At least the ones presently released, at the present pricing.
That doesn't mean the cards themselves are BAD. Just means they are a bad value.

But we don't know that yet. We will have to wait and see.
If Shagittarius is content with the purchase made, then that is great. But not everyone can be expected to feel the same.

Overclocking is still alive, if you're willing to scalp CPU IHS and shunt-mod video cards.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-11-08, 18:26:

Overclocking is still alive, if you're willing to scalp CPU IHS and shunt-mod video cards.

Yeah, it is still alive but it for sure is a bit more niche than it used to be.

I don't really count manufacturer sactioned overclocking as overclocking.
But there is very little need for any more. I put my shiny new (at the time) 3900x on Precision Boost and let it ride, haven't touched it since.
I know that I could play with voltages and likely the get the same clocks for less power, but I can't be bothered.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-11-08, 14:40:

Yeah, not for some time. I don't have the Ti, but I am still using my vanilla Asus ROG 1080 and while it is starting to show it […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-08, 13:04:

1080Ti is a mistake nVidia will never make again 😁

Yeah, not for some time.
I don't have the Ti, but I am still using my vanilla Asus ROG 1080 and while it is starting to show it's age it has been a fantastic card.

I don't see the 4000 series being in that kind of a historical place.
I think that in time they will be viewed as the new Fermi cards. On the fringe of making any kind of sense.

Nah, nVidia's next generation will be the Fermi Redux.

It gets spicier!

Absolute bollocks considering even FE 4090 cards started melting at this point. nVidia really fucked this one up and I'm having the time of my life.

are we up to 21 cases so far? Its all melting down, the horror.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-11-14, 15:17:

are we up to 21 cases so far? Its all melting down, the horror.

The number of cases isn't really the point.....It's that nVidia knowingly let it happen. Acceptable losses.
This is their flagship product, they knew it was defective, poorly designed and just didn't care. One more piece to the puzzle of why eVGA said "screw it" and bailed.

If AMD had done something similar, or Intel for that matter would you be reacting the same way?

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-11-14, 16:14:

The number of cases isn't really the point.....It's that nVidia knowingly let it happen. Acceptable losses. This is their flags […]
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Shagittarius wrote on 2022-11-14, 15:17:

are we up to 21 cases so far? Its all melting down, the horror.

The number of cases isn't really the point.....It's that nVidia knowingly let it happen. Acceptable losses.
This is their flagship product, they knew it was defective, poorly designed and just didn't care. One more piece to the puzzle of why eVGA said "screw it" and bailed.

If AMD had done something similar, or Intel for that matter would you be reacting the same way?

Nvidia knowingly let it happen? Are you an insider otherwise you are not stating facts. They knew it was defective, again, this is you stating this and unless you have secret insider information that is an assumption not a fact. Poorly designed , so poorly designed there is a very low failure rate. EVGA bailing, again you are making assumptions about events without facts.

Yes if AMD of Intel had a couple handfuls of failure that so far people think ahs to do with improperly or partially connected power cables I would certainly not think this was a big deal. But Im not a fanboy.

I have a very, very hard time believing that they didn't know the connectors had the potential to fail.
I suppose that it's possible that I am just a overly cynical skeptic.....but I doubt it.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-11-14, 16:14:

One more piece to the puzzle of why eVGA said "screw it" and bailed.

Given the EVGA 4090 sample that a well known youtuber got hold of, I think they probably knew as they put the cable connector in a different place 😉

So I don't think that was the reason EVGA bailed (they have samples of the 'next gen' GPU they had already spent time and money designing and making), who knows why they did but it was probably more like margins rather than bad design (they are a business after all, need to please share holders, given their own track record with kingpin etc and their lack of wanting to work with another partner... I very much doubt it was morals).

Number of samples is quite important when considering a production run. If you ship thousands, less than 1% of that is probably considered very good result. If you ship 22, then 21 failures isn't good so number of failures is proportional to the overall size of a run and very relevant to sucess in this scenario.

nVidia aren't alone here, one could loose count at the number of times ALL of these major vendors screw up some how. How much someone cares is probably related to how much someone is invested in the product in the first place, be it due to tribal allegiancies, hatred or money spent.

Primary reason that EVGA bailed - Nvidia is ripping them off with FE cards, which are now sold without early launch time limit and have very solid built quality, better than a lot of AIB cards. They also had a lot of bad press during Ampere launch, because their cards allegedly were dying a lot in New World, although it's probably due to high market share in North America.

To compete at this point, they had to do complete garbage like Palit/Zotac or had enough scale worldwide like Asus/Gigabyte/MSI to brush it off. Maybe they'll go XFX way and rebrand themselves as AMD parther later. After all they already making good AMD motherboards.

I think the problem is in the price of these graphics cards, normally you would expect great quality, and it is not very normal that they can fail due to something so stupid, predictable and avoidable. The brand does not matter, the problem is the lack of quality given the price they ask for them. If I had bought one and found something like this, I would feel cheated.
With a failure like this, I would say that its real value is less than half its price, since it is obvious that there was neglect in the development on the part of some engineers who should be much more capable than the users who are encountering the problem.
I just want users to be compensated and bother to develop a new version that avoids these problems.
It is unlikely that users will be compensated for these types of problems, let's remember the bumpgate. https://semiaccurate.com/2009/08/21/nvidia-fi … tands-bumpgate/
Let's also remember the compensation for Intel's misleading advertising on the Pentium 4. https://allinfo.space/2017/02/07/intel-compen … ing-benchmarks/
In the end, the users always lose.

Hoping wrote on 2022-11-14, 17:55:

[...] it is obvious that there was neglect in the development on the part of some engineers who should be much more capable than the users who are encountering the problem [...]

No, no! Don't blame the engineers!
This has "Jensen" written all over it. 😀 He just wanted to ensure that Ada Lovelace comes out on top no matter what. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that pushing these cards to their absolute limit will inevitably have unpredictable consequences outside of your test lab environment.

To be clear, I think the root cause of this issue will eventually be found and fixed. But, these are still sad "PC Master Race" times we're living. At this rate, very soon, even mid-range systems will need a 1 kW PSU... Dennard scaling has truly gone down the drain.

bloodem wrote on 2022-11-14, 18:31:

No, no! Don't blame the engineers! This has "Jensen" written all over it. :) He just wanted to ensure that Ada Lovelace comes ou […]
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Hoping wrote on 2022-11-14, 17:55:

[...] it is obvious that there was neglect in the development on the part of some engineers who should be much more capable than the users who are encountering the problem [...]

No, no! Don't blame the engineers!
This has "Jensen" written all over it. 😀 He just wanted to ensure that Ada Lovelace comes out on top no matter what. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that pushing these cards to their absolute limit will inevitably have unpredictable consequences outside of your test lab environment.

To be clear, I think the root cause of this issue will eventually be found and fixed. But, these are still sad "PC Master Race" times we're living. At this rate, very soon, even mid-range systems will need a 1 kW PSU... Dennard scaling has truly gone down the drain.

I agree. It stinks of trying to make the architecture more than what it is capable of.
And charging a premium and a half "just because"

Intel pulled the same garbage with the 9th gen i9 crap.
And for that matter AMD did the same with the horrible FX-9590 chips...ask me how I know.

The difference is that they did quite quickly discount those parts.
Jensen won't do that. I guess those silly leather jackets are really expensive.

The prices will continue to go up until people stop buying, simple as.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-11-14, 15:17:

are we up to 21 cases so far? Its all melting down, the horror.

You do realize that it is enough basis for a class action lawsuit and one is actually in the works right? I hope you don't own nV stock.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-11-14, 21:59:

I agree. It stinks of trying to make the architecture more than what it is capable of. And charging a premium and a half "just […]
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bloodem wrote on 2022-11-14, 18:31:

No, no! Don't blame the engineers! This has "Jensen" written all over it. :) He just wanted to ensure that Ada Lovelace comes ou […]
Show full quote

Hoping wrote on 2022-11-14, 17:55:

[...] it is obvious that there was neglect in the development on the part of some engineers who should be much more capable than the users who are encountering the problem [...]

No, no! Don't blame the engineers!
This has "Jensen" written all over it. 😀 He just wanted to ensure that Ada Lovelace comes out on top no matter what. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that pushing these cards to their absolute limit will inevitably have unpredictable consequences outside of your test lab environment.

To be clear, I think the root cause of this issue will eventually be found and fixed. But, these are still sad "PC Master Race" times we're living. At this rate, very soon, even mid-range systems will need a 1 kW PSU... Dennard scaling has truly gone down the drain.

I agree. It stinks of trying to make the architecture more than what it is capable of.
And charging a premium and a half "just because"

Intel pulled the same garbage with the 9th gen i9 crap.
And for that matter AMD did the same with the horrible FX-9590 chips...ask me how I know.

The difference is that they did quite quickly discount those parts.
Jensen won't do that. I guess those silly leather jackets are really expensive.

Were there cases of i9 9900K CPUs causing something to melt/burn that I missed ? Or are you referring to the the actual power usage/thermals being rather intense for a desktop part (as opposed to quoted TDP)?

adding some informative link here for the heck of it.

https://www.igorslab.de/en/good-or-bad-adapte … -investigative/