I mean, it all sounds good in theory. Biggest issue is it's kickstarter, and almost every kickstarter I know of in the best of times had Chinese manufacturing and shipping issues. These are not the best of times. Plus electronic gadgets seem to have the worst kickstarter record as a group that I'm aware of.

Its more expensive than it seems, you need to add 150 to the price for the panel, and then additional modules for connectivity.

Namrok wrote on 2022-11-18, 21:13:

I mean, it all sounds good in theory. Biggest issue is it's kickstarter, and almost every kickstarter I know of in the best of times had Chinese manufacturing and shipping issues. These are not the best of times. Plus electronic gadgets seem to have the worst kickstarter record as a group that I'm aware of.

These guys at least have a track record of prior product releases (e.g. the Checkmate cases).

While the display has VGA there's no mention of how/if it handles 70Hz DOS games.
Didn't watch the 75min video though.

Solution for what, the fairly low availability of a real CRT monitor these days? I don't see what problem this sets out to solve. I'd certainly like to have a flat panel lying around in a fullscreen aspect ratio and not have to pay the $800 for a 28" MateView, but if it's a 50 or 60Hz panel like I suspect it is, I really don't see any point to it -- especially when the color rendering on flat panels that aren't crazy QD-mini LED panels is categorically significantly worse than even consumer-grade CRTs. Especially especially if it's 8bpc (17 mil. colors) only. A DisplayPort to VGA converter is only like $30 after all, and some even have 10-bit DACs. However, if it ends up lowering the price of CRTs and people sell their monitors off to replace with this, I wouldn't mind. I could do with another 19"er, hopefully something aperture grille.

Personally, I'm not interested in one of these products themselves until they come with a laser-phospor display. Then I'll be much, much more interested in it.

I like the concept, they are trying to provide an all-in-one LED monitor for retro purposes, without needing several adapters / monitors.

My only question mark is the panel used - ie only 1280x1024, but I guess it is for cost reasons, as such panels are still widely available.

A panel with 1600x1200, with very good integer scaling could be really interesting, of course at a reasonable price.

lepidotós wrote on 2022-11-19, 21:29:

Solution for what, the fairly low availability of a real CRT monitor these days? I don't see what problem this sets out to solve.

Similar to their cases it seems to be something that captures the retro-aesthetic while still being modern.

No 70hz mentioned, so it's practically useless for DOS PC. Also the default IPS panel would be 1280x1024. These panels are usually very old, with lackluster response time.
Overall, it's more targeted for console and Amiga crowd, especially for PAL (ugh) region.

I wouldn't get one for console if it's got poor response times, that really does matter. Donkey Kong Country is significantly harder on a flat panel display than on a CRT in my experience.

After giving it additional thought, I can't wrap my head around for whom the base model is actually targeted:

However, in PAL regions the 5:4 format is more common, with resolutions of 1280x1024, 640x512, 320x256. Also PAL video displays are 5:4, for example the Amiga genlocked video output 720x576, where the NTSC displays would be 4:3.

This statement is clearly false, because both NTSC and PAL are 4:3 formats. And both do not fit into that format pixel perfectly. 5:4 panels were stupid invention from PC market, but that project is not advertised for PC gaming, at least primarily (no 70hz mentioned). But other platforms had a bunch of anamorphic modes which do not fit good into that. Authentically all were using 4:3 CRT TVs or monitors. So using 1280x1024 IPS panel is only logical from economical standpoint, because they were made in abundant quantity, unlike 1600x1200 panels, which were a niche thing.

Ironically, modern displays with black frame insertion are much more qualified for the job.

The main problem is the response time. As well as the lack of a flexible choice of refresh rates (up to 640x480@200hz, up to 1920x1080@100hz). I'm used to using 1600x900@100hz under Windows on CRT and completely different lower modes, with higher refresh rates (More than 100hz) in games (Including DOS games thanks to the UniRefresh program). It is much more enjoyable to play many DOS games at 144, 120 or even 150/160hz, depending on the specific game, I chose my ideal value to make the image look as smooth as possible. I think the technology FED or SED should be taken as a basis. OLED could also be very good if it supports high refresh rates with minimal response times. As for the format of the monitor itself, I'm sure it makes no sense to strive for 4:3, since there were also quite successful widescreen CRT monitors suitable for retro tasks, for example from SONY (FW900), and black bars on the sides, if necessary, will do their job perfectly. Another option is to still try to revive the production of CRT monitors, especially the latest models with a shorter tube. By applying modern technologies and technical processes, you can get excellent monitors not only for retro tasks, but also for those industries where response time and refresh are fundamentally important.

I am sure that modern widescreen FED\SED\CRT monitors, using modern solutions, will find their grateful buyer (They will be especially good for medicine, e-sports, space, science, education). But this can only be done by a large corporation like Sony or Mitsubishi Electric.

And the corporations seem to be colluding. Do not shoot breakthrough technologies on the market that will force everyone to modernize production until all market participants squeeze all the juice out of the LCD (In which a lot of money has already been invested and, in principle, people eat (So happy). And if it goes like this profit, why change something drastically?). The community of users of retro systems is too small to recoup at least the funds invested in it. Only if something globally changes.

Enthusiasts, without good funding, will not even be able to revive CRT in an acceptable quality. And the product that is offered by the link in the first message is not necessary to buy if you like the idea itself. You can just support the project and stay on a good CRT monitor for now. Maybe someday they will give birth to something really worthwhile.

And this is just a dummy and is not suitable for a normal CRT monitor, but the direction of thought is the right one. Pumped up the implementation...

Thomas Electronics in New York still produces CRTs for institutional users, they might be a place to start on such a quest. Someone mentioned that they only make them up to 5"; even if that's true, that just means making it a rear projection display rather than a conventional CRT.

I’d be willing to bet that 70 Hz is supported, as I have seen very few LCD controllers that don’t support that.

- Alex

I'm probably in a minority here, but why does it have to be so big? It's not as deep as a real CRT and not as thin as a modern LCD panel.

In my opinion the screen looks absolutely hideous because of its weird form factor.

And do we really need crappy PC speakers inside of a monitor? I think not.

Being a small manufacturer, Checkmate cannot get custom LCD panels built. They will get whatever panels are readily available in small volumes at a reasonable cost.

Panels with resolutions such as 1920x1920, 2048x1536, 2560 x 2880 are expensive and uneconomical for such low production runs.

To my knowledge, there are no new CRTs being produced for consumer purposes, anywhere.

Sounded to me like the conversion modules from VGA/Composite/...etc are all going to follow what the line doublers are doing nowadays (RetroTink, OSSC). I found that none of these are ideal for retro PC requirements.

IMO this project is only locking you to a particular upscaler and LCD with an over-inflated cost for the combo.

4:3 LCDs with native VGA and DVI connectors are available all around and many times for free. And If I was a fan of upscaled DOS gaming I could also find an HDMI 4:3 LCD and pay the cost for the upscaler.. so you pay say 200$ instead of god-knows what will the final bill end up being with this project.

And yes, I haven't touched on the aesthetics here even 😅

ajacocks wrote on 2022-11-24, 21:30:

I’d be willing to bet that 70 Hz is supported, as I have seen very few LCD controllers that don’t support that.

Supported and being correctly displayed are two different things. If a controller nominally can output 70Hz, but only by skipping frames - it's practically useless.

cosmetically it looks pretty cool.. that's about all I can say. I've though about retrofitting an LCD screen into a crt case... crts are getting hard to find in my neck of the woods.

Statements like this make me not want this after all...

retro computing/gaming fans prefer a monitor that is 5:4/4:3 aspect ratio

No one in his sane mind prefers 5:4 monitors. Not in PAL region either. I live in PAL country and 5:4 was the main reason I kept using 4:3 CRT monitors exclusively up to about 2010, when 16:10 were available.

However, in PAL regions the 5:4 format is more common, with resolutions of 1280x1024, 640x512, 320x256. Also PAL video displays are 5:4, for example the Amiga genlocked video output 720x576, where the NTSC displays would be 4:3.

There's clearly some kind of misunderstanding here. And I thought the 5:4 abomination has already died years ago.

A high res (2K or even 4K) 4:3 panel would be the best in this kind of project. Alas, that's not gonna happen here.