liqmat wrote on 2022-12-02, 16:57:

Hey folks, […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2022-12-02, 07:57:

Is this an unofficial fork of vkquake or something in vkquake's dev pipeline?

clueless1 wrote on 2022-12-02, 11:20:

I saw that on Digital Foundry. Looks really cool, just haven't had time to mess with it yet. Keep us posted.

wiibur wrote on 2022-12-02, 12:46:

There's a good tip in the DF video about downgrading DLSS to 2.2.6 that works for lots of games that have been updated or released with DLSS 2.4.

buckeye wrote on 2022-12-02, 13:56:

Wonder if they've be willing to do the add-ons as well. They did Quake 2 also but don't think the other episodes were included.

Hey folks,

Been playing it for a bit and I have to say, for the most part, it makes Quake a much better experience overall. I do have a few gripes, but I am sure newer iterations will allow for more options. Like some reviewers have already said, I am not so sure about the toxic liquid color. Right now it's a pale light blue/aqua color. Green maybe? Would be nice if you could adjust this to personal taste.

Quake1_Toxic_Pool.jpg

Liquids look fantastic at some angles and just bleh at other angles depending where the light sources are. That toxic pool pic above doesn't look that impressive from a top-down perspective, but get into the pool with a light source reflecting on it and you really see the difference. It obviously looks much better in motion.

Quake1_Toxic_Pool_Light_Reflect.jpg

A very cool feature is the 'F' key, which allows you to instantly flip between classic and full ray trace modes. The classic mode still has ray tracing, but very minimal and closer to the original look of the game. It's neat to travel through the levels and flip back and forth to see the massive difference.

One last thing. I don't favor AMD or NVidia over one another as they come pretty dang close in quality, but I find 'AMD FSR 2.0' in 'Quality' mode looks a bit better than 'NVidia DLSS' in 'Quality' mode with this particular game. It's subjective, but I find DLSS (even 2.2.6) a tiny bit muddier than FSR 2.0.

One last note, I had to install this through the manual method (not difficult) as I'm using the GOG version of Quake. Either way, I'm having a blast and it looks amazing. Don't forget... hit that 'F' key a lot so you can go "oooooh... purty!"

I've just tried it out, and something feels wrong. The mouselook feels laggy and the movement is weird, as if there is too much weight. It doesn't feel like the original Quake, I reverted to regular vkQuake.

I am using an AMD RX6700XT btw so it may be an AMD issue.

Also, the renderer is pretty inaccurate. For example, in Door to Chthon the gateway below the starting spawnpoint should be PITCH BLACK until you get the silver rune key. In the RT renderer it is clearly illuminated!

I reverted to regular vkQuake 🙁

dr_st wrote on 2022-12-02, 17:37:

Quake 2 is a pretty mediocre shooter. Sure it was all nice and shiny with 3D colored lighting when it came out, but in terms of gameplay, it's worse than Doom, Duke3D and Quake 1. It's just too boring and repetitive. So what you are seeing is understandable.

I won't say I wasn't wowed by Wolf 3D when it came out. Everyone was. It was so new and different, especially since I played the original Wolfenstein on my C64. Blake Stone, Corridor 7, Doom. There's also a lot of "forbidden" factor for preteens and teenagers, "Oooh, I'm shooting aliens and Mom doesn't want me to play this!"

But once I played Dark Forces, pretty much everything else was boring. I mean, if nothing else you could look up and down and actually aim. Then you had a solid story and actual characters. Sure, Duke 3D had style, personality, and humor that every teenage boy thought was the height of cool ( and strippers. Teenage boys and "forbidden" factor, remember? ), but it was only a quick flash for me. Heretic, Hexen, Blood, others. I tried them. Yeah, they were each a little different, but I couldn't tell you much about them now.

Dark Forces was the one I played to the end, and replayed. Jedi Knight was perfection for me. Then you had stuff like SiN, Shogo, Half-Life, Thief, Rainbow Six. Compared to those, Doom and Quake held no interest for me outside of novelty.

But I've also never cared much for deathmatch play; I much prefer team and co-op multiplayer. Rainbow Six, Tribes 2, Enemy Territory, UT2004. That was a good time for me. Railguns only, Rocket Arena, and spawn camping? No thanks.

Namrok wrote on 2022-12-02, 16:13:

Slowly progressing through Gateway to the Savage Frontier. I was a little intimidated to pick up another Gold Box game, but I d […]
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Slowly progressing through Gateway to the Savage Frontier. I was a little intimidated to pick up another Gold Box game, but I don't know why I was. It starts off super easy. New characters begin with 3000 XP, putting them at least at level 2. All the early encounters are a piece of cake if you just know the interface and have played an RPG before. I'm actually finding myself in a pickle because all my characters are ready to level up already, but I haven't found enough treasure to pay for their training! But overall, it's an extremely pleasurable, straight forward RPG. The Gold Box combat engine is a pleasure, as always.

I got curious and went through some old reviews or comments for the game in CGW. It was generally regarded as a competent, if unspectacular also-ran. Which is hard to argue with. But given the "Gold Box" style RPG more or less went extinct after the period where SSI was making them, it makes this also-ran all the more precious as time marches on.

Which is actually how I find myself feeling about a lot of middling, 2.5/5 star games or expansions from the 90's. After I beat Quake 2: The Reckoning, I read the contemporary reviews and they were mostly, "It's more Quake 2 if you want that I guess...". 6 months after Quake 2, around the release of Unreal, anticipating the release of Half-Life, that's an understandable reaction. 25 years after the release of Quake 2, where the Quake 2 style of boomer shooter more or less vanished, it's a precious gem.

Oh, I know there is a whole genre of new boomer shooters. I haven't delved them all. But even there, Quake 2 seems largely overlooked as an inspiration. Doom, Duke3d and Quake 1 dominate the gameplay vocabulary.

I have no specific childhood memories of Gateway, but it's sequel Treasures has a special place as perhaps the most evolved Gold Box game made (not counting Unlimited Adventures). It's been a long time!, but I recall Treasures being an awesome experience, for a GB pundit.

However in mainstream terms the whole system was considered dated and last-gen by that time, so reviews will mostly reflect that iirc.

I agree that such period, mainstream sentiment often gets caught up in it's own passing trends, resulting in verdicts which don't properly appreciate the merits of a game in a broader context.

appiah4 wrote on 2022-12-02, 19:17:

I've just tried it out, and something feels wrong. The mouselook feels laggy and the movement is weird, as if there is too much […]
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liqmat wrote on 2022-12-02, 16:57:

Hey folks, […]
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appiah4 wrote on 2022-12-02, 07:57:

Is this an unofficial fork of vkquake or something in vkquake's dev pipeline?

clueless1 wrote on 2022-12-02, 11:20:

I saw that on Digital Foundry. Looks really cool, just haven't had time to mess with it yet. Keep us posted.

wiibur wrote on 2022-12-02, 12:46:

There's a good tip in the DF video about downgrading DLSS to 2.2.6 that works for lots of games that have been updated or released with DLSS 2.4.

buckeye wrote on 2022-12-02, 13:56:

Wonder if they've be willing to do the add-ons as well. They did Quake 2 also but don't think the other episodes were included.

Hey folks,

Been playing it for a bit and I have to say, for the most part, it makes Quake a much better experience overall. I do have a few gripes, but I am sure newer iterations will allow for more options. Like some reviewers have already said, I am not so sure about the toxic liquid color. Right now it's a pale light blue/aqua color. Green maybe? Would be nice if you could adjust this to personal taste.

Quake1_Toxic_Pool.jpg

Liquids look fantastic at some angles and just bleh at other angles depending where the light sources are. That toxic pool pic above doesn't look that impressive from a top-down perspective, but get into the pool with a light source reflecting on it and you really see the difference. It obviously looks much better in motion.

Quake1_Toxic_Pool_Light_Reflect.jpg

A very cool feature is the 'F' key, which allows you to instantly flip between classic and full ray trace modes. The classic mode still has ray tracing, but very minimal and closer to the original look of the game. It's neat to travel through the levels and flip back and forth to see the massive difference.

One last thing. I don't favor AMD or NVidia over one another as they come pretty dang close in quality, but I find 'AMD FSR 2.0' in 'Quality' mode looks a bit better than 'NVidia DLSS' in 'Quality' mode with this particular game. It's subjective, but I find DLSS (even 2.2.6) a tiny bit muddier than FSR 2.0.

One last note, I had to install this through the manual method (not difficult) as I'm using the GOG version of Quake. Either way, I'm having a blast and it looks amazing. Don't forget... hit that 'F' key a lot so you can go "oooooh... purty!"

I've just tried it out, and something feels wrong. The mouselook feels laggy and the movement is weird, as if there is too much weight. It doesn't feel like the original Quake, I reverted to regular vkQuake.

I am using an AMD RX6700XT btw so it may be an AMD issue.

Also, the renderer is pretty inaccurate. For example, in Door to Chthon the gateway below the starting spawnpoint should be PITCH BLACK until you get the silver rune key. In the RT renderer it is clearly illuminated!

I reverted to regular vkQuake 🙁

You using the AMD build? I think that's the 1.0.2 version? Anyway, it's still early in the dev cycle so things will probably improve over time. No lag for me. Yet.

Edit: I take that back. Once in awhile I do hit some framerate stutter, but it resolves itself. I'm guessing it still needs a bit of optimizing.

liqmat wrote on 2022-12-02, 23:00:

appiah4 wrote on 2022-12-02, 19:17:

I've just tried it out, and something feels wrong. The mouselook feels laggy and the movement is weird, as if there is too much […]
Show full quote

liqmat wrote on 2022-12-02, 16:57:

Hey folks, […]
Show full quote

Hey folks,

Been playing it for a bit and I have to say, for the most part, it makes Quake a much better experience overall. I do have a few gripes, but I am sure newer iterations will allow for more options. Like some reviewers have already said, I am not so sure about the toxic liquid color. Right now it's a pale light blue/aqua color. Green maybe? Would be nice if you could adjust this to personal taste.

Quake1_Toxic_Pool.jpg

Liquids look fantastic at some angles and just bleh at other angles depending where the light sources are. That toxic pool pic above doesn't look that impressive from a top-down perspective, but get into the pool with a light source reflecting on it and you really see the difference. It obviously looks much better in motion.

Quake1_Toxic_Pool_Light_Reflect.jpg

A very cool feature is the 'F' key, which allows you to instantly flip between classic and full ray trace modes. The classic mode still has ray tracing, but very minimal and closer to the original look of the game. It's neat to travel through the levels and flip back and forth to see the massive difference.

One last thing. I don't favor AMD or NVidia over one another as they come pretty dang close in quality, but I find 'AMD FSR 2.0' in 'Quality' mode looks a bit better than 'NVidia DLSS' in 'Quality' mode with this particular game. It's subjective, but I find DLSS (even 2.2.6) a tiny bit muddier than FSR 2.0.

One last note, I had to install this through the manual method (not difficult) as I'm using the GOG version of Quake. Either way, I'm having a blast and it looks amazing. Don't forget... hit that 'F' key a lot so you can go "oooooh... purty!"

I've just tried it out, and something feels wrong. The mouselook feels laggy and the movement is weird, as if there is too much weight. It doesn't feel like the original Quake, I reverted to regular vkQuake.

I am using an AMD RX6700XT btw so it may be an AMD issue.

Also, the renderer is pretty inaccurate. For example, in Door to Chthon the gateway below the starting spawnpoint should be PITCH BLACK until you get the silver rune key. In the RT renderer it is clearly illuminated!

I reverted to regular vkQuake 🙁

You using the AMD build? I think that's the 1.0.2 version? Anyway, it's still early in the dev cycle so things will probably improve over time. No lag for me. Yet.

Edit: I take that back. Once in awhile I do hit some framerate stutter, but it resolves itself. I'm guessing it still needs a bit of optimizing.

Yeah I was using the 1.0.2 pre-release build for AMD cards.

The Bard's Tale Trilogy Remastered
I'm now 29.5 hours in and my characters are all level 13. Just class-changed my mages (one to conjuror->sorcerer and magician->conjuror). Have explored almost all of the sewers and started on level 1 of the Catacombs. Slowly finding better equipment for my party. There's not much of a story here, mostly combat, leveling up, etc. But that's okay. It's quite entertaining with just that. Interesting is the in-game timer pauses every time you minimize out of the game (which I do frequently to do research on the game). So my spreadsheet timing of the game is quite a bit higher at 29.5 hours. In-game timer is 21.5 hours. So I've spent 8 hours with the game minimized and me doing research on it. 😀 Which is different than minimizing and walking away from the game. I do stop my spreadsheet timer when I do that. I'm having fun exploring the levels fully, finding the annoying dark rooms that extinguish your light source, and finding crazy groups of monsters (50+ monsters per group). I do like the strategy involved with approaching each combat. Will I just hack and slash? Have my rogue hide and crit every other round or attack each round with less damage? Conserve spell points or use them? Heal characters or hope I can limp out without dying? Use Bard songs or just have her melee? Advance my party to distant groups or let them come to me? Take the magic users out quickly with group attack spells or melee them and hope their spell attacks fail? There's also the save-scumming aspect of leveling up. HP and attributes improved are random, so it's not uncommon to gain only 5 HP instead of 20 on level up, or have a fighter's intelligence go up or mage's strength (which are useless attributes to them). So yeah, I save scum each character on each level up.

liqmat wrote on 2022-12-02, 23:00:

Edit: I take that back. Once in awhile I do hit some framerate stutter, but it resolves itself. I'm guessing it still needs a bit of optimizing.

So after some more experimenting I've completely eliminated frame stuttering. For some reason, when vsync is disabled, the game goes into a slideshow after awhile. When I enable vsync I start seeing screen tearing which is odd since vsync usually eliminates that problem. It's only when I set vsync on and set the max FPS to something slightly above the monitor refresh rate the game runs completely fluid and without screen tearing. Much better experience.

Back to those liquids. You have to see it in motion, but man it looks cool.

The toxic pool motion from underneath is quite nifty. Still not sure about that color though.

Light reflections on water are just amazing.

liqmat wrote on 2022-12-04, 17:15:

So after some more experimenting I've completely eliminated frame stuttering. For some reason, when vsync is disabled, the game […]
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liqmat wrote on 2022-12-02, 23:00:

Edit: I take that back. Once in awhile I do hit some framerate stutter, but it resolves itself. I'm guessing it still needs a bit of optimizing.

So after some more experimenting I've completely eliminated frame stuttering. For some reason, when vsync is disabled, the game goes into a slideshow after awhile. When I enable vsync I start seeing screen tearing which is odd since vsync usually eliminates that problem. It's only when I set vsync on and set the max FPS to something slightly above the monitor refresh rate the game runs completely fluid and without screen tearing. Much better experience.

Back to those liquids. You have to see it in motion, but man it looks cool.

The toxic pool motion from underneath is quite nifty. Still not sure about that color though.
Under_Toxic_Pool.jpg

Light reflections on water are just amazing.
Water_Surface_Reflect.jpg

it does look good, like a strange mix of later 90's era graphics and original graphics

clueless1 wrote on 2022-12-04, 17:12:

The Bard's Tale Trilogy Remastered
I'm now 29.5 hours in and my characters are all level 13. Just class-changed my mages (one to conjuror->sorcerer and magician->conjuror). Have explored almost all of the sewers and started on level 1 of the Catacombs. Slowly finding better equipment for my party. There's not much of a story here, mostly combat, leveling up, etc. But that's okay. It's quite entertaining with just that. Interesting is the in-game timer pauses every time you minimize out of the game (which I do frequently to do research on the game). So my spreadsheet timing of the game is quite a bit higher at 29.5 hours. In-game timer is 21.5 hours. So I've spent 8 hours with the game minimized and me doing research on it. 😀 Which is different than minimizing and walking away from the game. I do stop my spreadsheet timer when I do that. I'm having fun exploring the levels fully, finding the annoying dark rooms that extinguish your light source, and finding crazy groups of monsters (50+ monsters per group). I do like the strategy involved with approaching each combat. Will I just hack and slash? Have my rogue hide and crit every other round or attack each round with less damage? Conserve spell points or use them? Heal characters or hope I can limp out without dying? Use Bard songs or just have her melee? Advance my party to distant groups or let them come to me? Take the magic users out quickly with group attack spells or melee them and hope their spell attacks fail? There's also the save-scumming aspect of leveling up. HP and attributes improved are random, so it's not uncommon to gain only 5 HP instead of 20 on level up, or have a fighter's intelligence go up or mage's strength (which are useless attributes to them). So yeah, I save scum each character on each level up.

You mentioned that there isn't much of a story. I thought this series was known for being really funny, which I assume was referring to the story. Am I mistaken? Maybe I'm thinking of the remake, not the originals.

The mid-00s inXile 'the bards tale' is the funny one. The OG Bards Tale games were just interplay wizardry but very animated monsters

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-12-04, 21:17:

clueless1 wrote on 2022-12-04, 17:12:

The Bard's Tale Trilogy Remastered
I'm now 29.5 hours in and my characters are all level 13. Just class-changed my mages (one to conjuror->sorcerer and magician->conjuror). Have explored almost all of the sewers and started on level 1 of the Catacombs. Slowly finding better equipment for my party. There's not much of a story here, mostly combat, leveling up, etc. But that's okay. It's quite entertaining with just that. Interesting is the in-game timer pauses every time you minimize out of the game (which I do frequently to do research on the game). So my spreadsheet timing of the game is quite a bit higher at 29.5 hours. In-game timer is 21.5 hours. So I've spent 8 hours with the game minimized and me doing research on it. 😀 Which is different than minimizing and walking away from the game. I do stop my spreadsheet timer when I do that. I'm having fun exploring the levels fully, finding the annoying dark rooms that extinguish your light source, and finding crazy groups of monsters (50+ monsters per group). I do like the strategy involved with approaching each combat. Will I just hack and slash? Have my rogue hide and crit every other round or attack each round with less damage? Conserve spell points or use them? Heal characters or hope I can limp out without dying? Use Bard songs or just have her melee? Advance my party to distant groups or let them come to me? Take the magic users out quickly with group attack spells or melee them and hope their spell attacks fail? There's also the save-scumming aspect of leveling up. HP and attributes improved are random, so it's not uncommon to gain only 5 HP instead of 20 on level up, or have a fighter's intelligence go up or mage's strength (which are useless attributes to them). So yeah, I save scum each character on each level up.

You mentioned that there isn't much of a story. I thought this series was known for being really funny, which I assume was referring to the story. Am I mistaken? Maybe I'm thinking of the remake, not the originals.

Yeah, leileilol is right. This is the one you're thinking of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bard% ... ideo_game)

Blaster Master Zero
I decided to take a break from RPGs for a bit, and play something with a bit more action. I absolutely loved Blaster Master on the NES back when I was a kid, so I was excited to check this out. I was surprised to find that this is basically a remake of BM, rather than a sequel or prequel. The graphics and music are pretty cool, with the graphics looking like something in between the NES and SNES (maybe if there was some kind of 32x-esque addon for the NES). The soundtrack is very good, but sadly not nearly as awesome as in the original game.

Anyway, it's basicaly Blaster Master but with the levels redone, and a lot more/different upgrades. You still explore the world in your super tank, and still leave your tank from time to time to enter caves and kill bosses. There are save points all over the place, so it's easy to jump in for 15-30 minutes at a time and have some fun. I just reached level 8, so I will probably be finishing this by the end of the month.

newtmonkey wrote on 2022-12-05, 14:45:

Blaster Master Zero
I decided to take a break from RPGs for a bit, and play something with a bit more action. I absolutely loved Blaster Master on the NES back when I was a kid, so I was excited to check this out. I was surprised to find that this is basically a remake of BM, rather than a sequel or prequel. The graphics and music are pretty cool, with the graphics looking like something in between the NES and SNES (maybe if there was some kind of 32x-esque addon for the NES). The soundtrack is very good, but sadly not nearly as awesome as in the original game.

Anyway, it's basicaly Blaster Master but with the levels redone, and a lot more/different upgrades. You still explore the world in your super tank, and still leave your tank from time to time to enter caves and kill bosses. There are save points all over the place, so it's easy to jump in for 15-30 minutes at a time and have some fun. I just reached level 8, so I will probably be finishing this by the end of the month.

I got this on my PS4 last year for like $5, and it's a very nice remake. Stays very faithful to the original but adds a few QoL features.

The second one is not really my thing. It's a lot more twitchy and button mashing; not really my thing.

Jaron wrote on 2022-12-05, 14:53:

...
The second one is not really my thing. It's a lot more twitchy and button mashing; not really my thing.

That's very disappointing to read! I was enjoying BM0 so much that I went and got the two sequels haha. Well, I'll give them a shot anyway once I'm done with BM0.

Just beat C&C: Renegade for the first time. My feelings about the game as I progressed;

25% done: fairly stupid and not great but yet somehow still entertaining enough. Numerous nods to earlier C&C games helped a lot
50% done: starting to test my perseverance, sure it was their first (and only) FPS so some slack needs to be given, but sheesh was this ok even by 2002 standards?
75% done: this might be one of the worst FPS games I've ever played
100% done: this might the THE worst FPS game I've ever played

Don't play it. Not even if you are a C&C fan. It starts fine, clearly not the best game ever but entertaining as long you are willing to tolerate great many things, like bad combat, the worst ingame map ever and indoor areas that look so alike everywhere that a goddamn bloodhound would get lost in them, enemies that can drop you from full health and armor to near death in seconds or even kill you in a blink of an eye if you happen to eat a rocket from a rocket launcher trooper in ambush or just by being on the other side of the door you just opened, awful boss design and numerous numerous other things, but then there's the last level.

I don't think anyone playtested the last level. I cannot even begin to process the possibility that the last level was tested by actual people and deemed "fun". I must have died 20+ times during it on normal difficulty and I am not exaggerating. I think I might have had my mouth open the whole level out of utter bewilderment. If the designers honestly thought that was fun I think the possibility of reptilians/space aliens living among us rises up considerably. Would explain many things about the game actually.

Sombrero wrote on 2022-12-05, 22:12:

Just beat C&C: Renegade for the first time. My feelings about the game as I progressed; […]
Show full quote

Just beat C&C: Renegade for the first time. My feelings about the game as I progressed;

25% done: fairly stupid and not great but yet somehow still entertaining enough. Numerous nods to earlier C&C games helped a lot
50% done: starting to test my perseverance, sure it was their first (and only) FPS so some slack needs to be given, but sheesh was this ok even by 2002 standards?
75% done: this might be one of the worst FPS games I've ever played
100% done: this might the THE worst FPS game I've ever played

Don't play it. Not even if you are a C&C fan. It starts fine, clearly not the best game ever but entertaining as long you are willing to tolerate great many things, like bad combat, the worst ingame map ever and indoor areas that look so alike everywhere that a goddamn bloodhound would get lost in them, enemies that can drop you from full health and armor to near death in seconds or even kill you in a blink of an eye if you happen to eat a rocket from a rocket launcher trooper in ambush or just by being on the other side of the door you just opened, awful boss design and numerous numerous other things, but then there's the last level.

I don't think anyone playtested the last level. I cannot even begin to process the possibility that the last level was tested by actual people and deemed "fun". I must have died 20+ times during it on normal difficulty and I am not exaggerating. I think I might have had my mouth open the whole level out of utter bewilderment. If the designers honestly thought that was fun I think the possibility of reptilians/space aliens living among us rises up considerably. Would explain many things about the game actually.

Well, you'll be relieved to know the sequel never made it out the door.

liqmat wrote on 2022-12-05, 23:42:

Well, you'll be relieved to know the sequel never made it out the door.

As sad as I am of Westwoods passing, that would have had a chance of being good only if the lead designers had been swapped to some other people. The problems Renegade has go way beyond beginner mistakes, seemed to me they either didn't really even understand what they were doing or the development team had major internal issues that lead to Anthem type of situation.

Sombrero wrote on 2022-12-05, 22:12:

Just beat C&C: Renegade for the first time. My feelings about the game as I progressed;

Thanks for this.

As a fellow fan of the series, I also thought about playing Renegade after revisiting the '90s C&C games. Never got that game back in the day, so I was thinking of grabbing a used copy off eBay. But now, I think I'll just watch someone else tackle that on YouTube and spare myself the pain. 😁

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-12-06, 06:50:

Thanks for this.

As a fellow fan of the series, I also thought about playing Renegade after revisiting the '90s C&C games. Never got that game back in the day, so I was thinking of grabbing a used copy off eBay. But now, I think I'll just watch someone else tackle that on YouTube and spare myself the pain. 😁

No problem 😀

I really wanted to like this and sometimes I did, especially during the first hours. It's fun to drive around with familiar vehicles from C&C, see the buildings from it from first person view and watch a tiberium harvester doing its thing. It's evident they wanted the game feel like you are within the world you saw in C&C and in ways they succeeded.

But they also failed pretty miserably in other ways. Even though the game has some very glaring issues with its design, I still feel I should say you might possibly like it a bit more than I did as you from my understading like Duke3D. I've never personally liked the Build engine type of gameplay that can punish you pretty harsly if you don't kill the enemies within split second and Renegade reminded me of that sometimes, this most definitely affected my opinion of it the more the closer I got to the end. Had not the end been such a damn chore I may have given the game a 3/5 - C&C fandom required, even with its numerous other issues, but for me the last level was just the worst.

Sombrero wrote on 2022-12-06, 08:14:

Even though the game has some very glaring issues with its design, I still feel I should say you might possibly like it a bit more than I did as you from my understading like Duke3D. I've never personally liked the Build engine type of gameplay that can punish you pretty harsly if you don't kill the enemies within split second and Renegade reminded me of that sometimes, this most definitely affected my opinion of it the more the closer I got to the end. Had not the end been such a damn chore I may have given the game a 3/5 - C&C fandom required, even with its numerous other issues, but for me the last level was just the worst.

Indeed, Duke3D was one of the first PC games that I ever played, and it remains among my favorite '90s FPS titles to this day, despite its shortcomings. And yeah, Duke also had its share of "open a door and something blasts you in the face" moments, especially in the Lunar Apocalypse episode, but I still manage to enjoy it for what it is.

Maybe I'll give Renegade a shot sometime, at the very least for that experience of seeing C&C units up close, as you mentioned. Also, I think Frank Klepacki worked on the soundtrack for Renegade as well, which is another reason to check it out I guess.