Seriously guys, the time for XP compatible browsers is over.

The web simply has become too bloated and 32-Bit editions were hard to compile to in ~2010 already.

As far as I remember from the news back then, a Windows 2000 machine used for compilation had to use all kind of tricks to get Firefox 32-Bit compiled.

In fact, the news said the Windows 2000 system was almost falling apart from the stellar memory consumption.
And no, a 64-Bit of Windows edition couldn't be used for some reason.

The compiling had to be done on a real Windows 2000 at the time.
So you see, 32-Bit computing was on its knees already, before Windows XP went EOL in 2014.

Let's see it positive, XP outlived both Mac OS X 10.4 'Tiger' and Mac OS X 10.6 'Snow Leopard'. And the Mac fans are kinda jealous about that (- Thenfourfox). 😉

If you're still using XP as your main OS, please consider using a virtualized Linux (CoLinux/AndLinux etc) or a VM.

Both Virtual PC 2007 and older versions of VirtualBox/VMware can still run under Windows XP.

So you can export all your bookmarks of Palemoon etc and import it in a virtualized Firefox on Linux, ArcaOS or modern Windows.
Up to Windows 10 should work, after that, 32-Bit PC support got canned (finally 🙏).

most xp machines don't have CPUs with virtualization extensions.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-12-12, 04:08:

Seriously guys, the time for XP compatible browsers is over.

Speaking of browsers, Blink/Chromium-based browsers on Win7 or Win8.1 now receive a warning message that version 109 would be the last version capable to run under Win7/8.1. Some GeForce 7 IGP are incompatible with Win 10 and can only be recognized as "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter;" not a problem for a full desktop but can be tricky to find a suitable low-profile video card for an SFF build.

leileilol wrote on 2022-12-12, 04:10:

most xp machines don't have CPUs with virtualization extensions.

Um, Windows 11 needs TPM 2 and in turn indirectly those virtualization-extensions, I guess. 🤷‍♂️

But back in 2008 and before, I ran various virtualizers on XP 32-Bit.
Roughly about the time, I had a PC with a VIA C7-D that ran MS Virtual PC 2007 just fine.
And VMWare Player/Virtualbox, I remember.

Before that, I was using a Pentium IV with Hyper-Threading, but no AMD-V/Intel V (Vanderpool) support in silicone.

My father had an Athlon 64 X2, I vaguely remember. It had AMD-V, but the VM software didn't require it at the time. 🤷‍♂️
It didn't help much, anyway. It made Windows 9x guests unstable.
Windows 3.1 wanted it though, to get Win32s going.

The later released Windows Virtual PC, made for XP-Mode on Windows 7, did require hardware-virtualization.
Well, originally, at least. After a sh*t storm, Microsoft released a patch that remove that requirement again.

Anyway, I merely thought about using older versions of the virtualizers for this single purpose.
They had Vista/7 drivers for VMs, at least, so Windows 8/10 may still run.
Or one of the various Linux distros. Or something else that can run a recent incarnation of Firefox.
Would also help to isolate malware from XP..

The new releasesof VBox/VMWare do require hardware-assisted virtualization, yes, but they likely aren't really running on XP anymore, anyway.

Last time I checked, the guest support for XP was dropped. So host support is gone in the meantime, as well, I suplose. 🤷‍♂️

I'm testing the latest Mypal 68 and after I turned off the multiprocess I never seen the BSOD and it works quite well, I can reach all webs I need, no need to reboot to my w7 or linux just because of internet. I hope that Feodor manage to rebuild some newer versions in future.

Btw with minor mod you can install Win11 on machines without TPM. I have seen it running on some C2D machine.

Just to clarify no modifying files on the OS is needed (unless you want to), just some registry keys.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-12-12, 04:08:

Seriously guys, the time for XP compatible browsers is over.

For now we have, firefox 68 and Chrome 86, if no new projects arrive, yes

leileilol wrote on 2022-12-12, 04:10:

most xp machines don't have CPUs with virtualization extensions.

When i talk with people in forums like msfn etc, most people is using XP for main os, have C2Q+ and most of them I3, i5 or i7

All this CPU have some kind of virtualization

Jo22 wrote on 2022-12-12, 04:08:

Seriously guys, the time for XP compatible browsers is over. […]
Show full quote

Seriously guys, the time for XP compatible browsers is over.

The web simply has become too bloated and 32-Bit editions were hard to compile to in ~2010 already.

As far as I remember from the news back then, a Windows 2000 machine used for compilation had to use all kind of tricks to get Firefox 32-Bit compiled.

In fact, the news said the Windows 2000 system was almost falling apart from the stellar memory consumption.
And no, a 64-Bit of Windows edition couldn't be used for some reason.

The compiling had to be done on a real Windows 2000 at the time.
So you see, 32-Bit computing was on its knees already, before Windows XP went EOL in 2014.

Let's see it positive, XP outlived both Mac OS X 10.4 'Tiger' and Mac OS X 10.6 'Snow Leopard'. And the Mac fans are kinda jealous about that (- Thenfourfox). 😉

If you're still using XP as your main OS, please consider using a virtualized Linux (CoLinux/AndLinux etc) or a VM.

Both Virtual PC 2007 and older versions of VirtualBox/VMware can still run under Windows XP.

So you can export all your bookmarks of Palemoon etc and import it in a virtualized Firefox on Linux, ArcaOS or modern Windows.
Up to Windows 10 should work, after that, 32-Bit PC support got canned (finally 🙏).

32bit Firefox and Chrome are still supported in windows 7 32bits and newer windows, I know Chrome support for win7 is ending soon, but Firefox have no announced anything;
also I haven't heard anything about end of support for chrome 32bit on windows 10, but I haven't looked into it.

SPBHM wrote on 2022-12-12, 19:18:

Jo22 wrote on 2022-12-12, 04:08:

Seriously guys, the time for XP compatible browsers is over. […]
Show full quote

Seriously guys, the time for XP compatible browsers is over.

The web simply has become too bloated and 32-Bit editions were hard to compile to in ~2010 already.

As far as I remember from the news back then, a Windows 2000 machine used for compilation had to use all kind of tricks to get Firefox 32-Bit compiled.

In fact, the news said the Windows 2000 system was almost falling apart from the stellar memory consumption.
And no, a 64-Bit of Windows edition couldn't be used for some reason.

The compiling had to be done on a real Windows 2000 at the time.
So you see, 32-Bit computing was on its knees already, before Windows XP went EOL in 2014.

Let's see it positive, XP outlived both Mac OS X 10.4 'Tiger' and Mac OS X 10.6 'Snow Leopard'. And the Mac fans are kinda jealous about that (- Thenfourfox). 😉

If you're still using XP as your main OS, please consider using a virtualized Linux (CoLinux/AndLinux etc) or a VM.

Both Virtual PC 2007 and older versions of VirtualBox/VMware can still run under Windows XP.

So you can export all your bookmarks of Palemoon etc and import it in a virtualized Firefox on Linux, ArcaOS or modern Windows.
Up to Windows 10 should work, after that, 32-Bit PC support got canned (finally 🙏).

32bit Firefox and Chrome are still supported in windows 7 32bits and newer windows, I know Chrome support for win7 is ending soon, but Firefox have no announced anything;
also I haven't heard anything about end of support for chrome 32bit on windows 10, but I haven't looked into it.

Anyways, with browsers spliting in multiple process, the ram limit is not so big problem in 32bits

Right now, because my work, i have chrome with a LOT of tabs, and is almost 7GB !! my god... soo bloated ... no choise.. modern times

Looks like this was made for you: https://youtu.be/ZVJKKWuCGuE

If Win11 is too expensive, in eighter hardware purchase or license fee.... Why not switch to Linux instead.
I am on full Linux since 2016, and my daily driver is a HP Probook 6460b from 2011. Works perfect for my personal needs.

brostenen wrote on 2022-12-18, 19:29:

If Win11 is too expensive, in eighter hardware purchase or license fee.... Why not switch to Linux instead.
I am on full Linux since 2016, and my daily driver is a HP Probook 6460b from 2011. Works perfect for my personal needs.

Do you play any modern games? I use Linux for productivity, but haven't tried it for gaming. I have heard good things about Proton, but I haven't tried it, as I already have Windows 10 dual booted. I'm curious what the compatibility and performance is like currently.

Even if I could game in Linux, I still have a few programs that require Windows. I feel like I'll be stuck being able to use Linux 90% of the time for years. For example, I use a bunch of music production tools that aren't supported in Linux. I also use a couple of programs from Affinity as alternatives to overpriced Adobe software. Even Word has been hard to move away from. I have to collaborate with people who use Word. Often the formatting changes going back and forth between Word and Libre Office or Open Office. I've also noticed that the Word spell checker flags stuff that is missed on the Linux alternatives.

If I should use a Windows XP PC on the modern internet now a days, I would use it behind a combination of a firewall and a computer that works as a realtime antivirus scanner. Basically a firewall and a computer that works as real time scanner (that checks/scans the whole network, and not just incoming and outgoing traffic) with a good antivirus program .

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-12-18, 23:23:

brostenen wrote on 2022-12-18, 19:29:

If Win11 is too expensive, in eighter hardware purchase or license fee.... Why not switch to Linux instead.
I am on full Linux since 2016, and my daily driver is a HP Probook 6460b from 2011. Works perfect for my personal needs.

Do you play any modern games? I use Linux for productivity, but haven't tried it for gaming. I have heard good things about Proton, but I haven't tried it, as I already have Windows 10 dual booted. I'm curious what the compatibility and performance is like currently.

I daily drive Linux Mint with Xanmod kernel for around 3 years and do all my modern gaming on it. Singleplayer games generally work just as well as they do on Windows. The performance hit for the compatibility layer at this point is very low. There are problem games, but I'd say 90+ percent works without issues out of the box. Recently I had a little hiccup with Skullgirls, I had to try a couple of Proton versions to find one with which the game runs perfectly, but generally if there are issues, that's as far as you have to go to solve them.

I can recommend the GloriousEggroll line of Proton: https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom/releases
It generally offers better speed and compatibility, though there are certain games that doesn't like them.

As for games from other platforms than Steam, I install them through Lutris. The GoG client running through Lutris is a little slow, but the most recent game I played through it (launching from the GoG client running in Lutris/Wine) was Shadow Warrior 2 from 2016 and it was perfectly playable.

The problem when it comes to Linux gaming is multiplayer. Anti-Cheat solutions (mainly EAC and BattlEye) often don't know what to do with the compatibility layers and you can't join games.

RandomStranger wrote on 2022-12-19, 07:02:

I daily drive Linux Mint with Xanmod kernel for around 3 years and do all my modern gaming on it. Singleplayer games generally w […]
Show full quote

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-12-18, 23:23:

brostenen wrote on 2022-12-18, 19:29:

If Win11 is too expensive, in eighter hardware purchase or license fee.... Why not switch to Linux instead.
I am on full Linux since 2016, and my daily driver is a HP Probook 6460b from 2011. Works perfect for my personal needs.

Do you play any modern games? I use Linux for productivity, but haven't tried it for gaming. I have heard good things about Proton, but I haven't tried it, as I already have Windows 10 dual booted. I'm curious what the compatibility and performance is like currently.

I daily drive Linux Mint with Xanmod kernel for around 3 years and do all my modern gaming on it. Singleplayer games generally work just as well as they do on Windows. The performance hit for the compatibility layer at this point is very low. There are problem games, but I'd say 90+ percent works without issues out of the box. Recently I had a little hiccup with Skullgirls, I had to try a couple of Proton versions to find one with which the game runs perfectly, but generally if there are issues, that's as far as you have to go to solve them.

I can recommend the GloriousEggroll line of Proton: https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom/releases
It generally offers better speed and compatibility, though there are certain games that doesn't like them.

As for games from other platforms than Steam, I install them through Lutris. The GoG client running through Lutris is a little slow, but the most recent game I played through it (launching from the GoG client running in Lutris/Wine) was Shadow Warrior 2 from 2016 and it was perfectly playable.

The problem when it comes to Linux gaming is multiplayer. Anti-Cheat solutions (mainly EAC and BattlEye) often don't know what to do with the compatibility layers and you can't join games.

Thanks! I'll check out eggroll and Lutris. I rarely play multiplayer, so that shouldn't be a problem.

WolverineDK wrote on 2022-12-18, 23:52:

If I should use a Windows XP PC on the modern internet now a days, I would use it behind a combination of a firewall and a computer that works as a realtime antivirus scanner. Basically a firewall and a computer that works as real time scanner (that checks/scans the whole network, and not just incoming and outgoing traffic) with a good antivirus program .

Why? i understand for example in a bank, but in home? nobody cares about you

In fact, is not my area, but some times i help testing malware, virus, etc and a lot of them in NT4-XP, give some kind of missing functions

Yeah, modern applications don't work on NT. You need to use an old compiler for this.

theelf wrote on 2022-12-19, 10:38:

WolverineDK wrote on 2022-12-18, 23:52:

If I should use a Windows XP PC on the modern internet now a days, I would use it behind a combination of a firewall and a computer that works as a realtime antivirus scanner. Basically a firewall and a computer that works as real time scanner (that checks/scans the whole network, and not just incoming and outgoing traffic) with a good antivirus program .

Why? i understand for example in a bank, but in home? nobody cares about you

In fact, is not my area, but some times i help testing malware, virus, etc and a lot of them in NT4-XP, give some kind of missing functions

The reason is simple, I would rather have security even though nobody cares about me than the opposite. I mean, what if I had a computer museum ? And I had the computers linked up to a network, again I do not see anything wrong with having security, even for the old machines.

Also most of modern viruses doesn't work on NT and 9x 😀 (if not intentionally targetted)

WolverineDK wrote on 2022-12-19, 15:27:

The reason is simple, I would rather have security even though nobody cares about me than the opposite. I mean, what if I had a computer museum ? And I had the computers linked up to a network, again I do not see anything wrong with having security, even for the old machines.

For me, is like you are afraid you will have a robbery your home, and you hire someone to stay in front of you door all day. Better this guy will be a expert ex cop or something, or you will get robbed because thief will enter from the chimney while the guy is smoking in the door waiting be a hero... then you get robbed and need to pay the guy cigarettes

I cant see why a regular user will need more than just use a limited account, and test all strange stuff from internet in a vm for example

RayeR wrote on 2022-12-19, 15:27:

Also most of modern viruses doesn't work on NT and 9x 😀 (if not intentionally targetted)

2 or 3 years ago, dont remember exactly, was a cyber attack in the company my brother works, a electricity supplier, that affected all computers, laptops, tablets, etc running windows... exept the few 2k-XP ones they still have, because the virus target vista+ funny but sadly true, in XP give a gettickcount64 is missing jajaja