I know @LuigiThirty in Twitter has one working (she was developing a port of Doom for XGA cards), maybe she could help with this.

ViTi95 wrote on 2022-12-24, 13:49:

I know @LuigiThirty in Twitter has one working (she was developing a port of Doom for XGA cards), maybe she could help with this.

thanks, I don't want to bother directly people, i.e. approach them on Twitter, etc. So, if anyone is interested, can contact me here or join the "party" here:

https://github.com/86Box/86Box/issues/2983

I am progressing, at least, I believe so, but it's very complicated... BTW, buying XGA card is relatively cheap and they are abundant (I found seller with almost 20 in stock and there are plenty more sellers), but unfortunately, I was not able to find anywhere anyone selling even a single PS/2 model with 32-bit MCA slots compatible with such a card. That makes me believe even if one appears for sale I will not able to afford it, because they seem like very rare now, which means very expensive...

I have a model 80 in storage with an XGA2 adapter, I might be able to help out if you don't require anything too complicated from me 😀

MMaximus wrote on 2022-12-25, 14:54:

I have a model 80 in storage with an XGA2 adapter, I might be able to help out if you don't require anything too complicated from me 😀

nope, it's very easy, it will be just boot to dos, copy and run few exe files that I provided to you and tell the output - see the attached screenshot for example (I have more tools that you will need to run on the real hardware, but it's just that - run few exe, collect the output, nothing complicated).

BTW, if you read latest here:

https://github.com/86Box/86Box/issues/2983

the author of XGA emu @TC1995 made huge progress, but I don't know the details yet, i.e. still cannot explain my investigation and how it's consistent with his latest changes. In any way, I still need someone with real hardware, because there are still a lot of open questions as some registers and BIOS functions are mostly undocumented by IBM.

@MMaximus

and just to add if you take your PS2 out of storage first you can do is download this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140911121135if_ … es/xga2util.zip

and run:

1xga2 -v >> xga.log

and upload the "xga.log" here and we proceed from there. Right now, I am counting on you, but everyone else with suitable hardware is welcomed to do the same and then follow with me with few more tests. Totally it will take you minutes.

mattw wrote on 2022-12-25, 11:37:

PS/2 model with 32-bit MCA slots compatible with such a card.

no one corrected me, but after some reading it seems at least "XGA-2" cards even they are 32-bit MCA, work in 16-bit MCA slots. however, their drivers require at least i386 cpu and even more unfortunate cheap and available models like ps/2 model 55sx do not work, because their motherboard has no nvram and that prevents to disable the onboard vga on them. in any way, that's good to know, because compact as size models like 56SX/SLC, etc should work, i.e. monsters in size and weight like 8580 could be avoided.

there you go

1
2Video Functionality/State Information
3-------------------------------------
4   E000 - Segment to static functionality information
5   4EA3 - Offset to static functionality information
6     03 - Active video mode
7     80 - Character columns on screen (columns on screen)
8   4096 - Length of regenerative buffer (in bytes)
9   0000 - Starting address in regenerative buffer
10      0 - Active display page
11    3D4 - Display Controller address
12     29 - Current setting of 3x8 register
13     30 - Current setting of 3x9 register
14     25 - Character lines on screen (rows on screen)
15     16 - Scan lines per character (character height)
16     08 - Display combination code (active)
17     00 - Display combination code (alternative)
18     16 - Colors supported for current video mode
19      8 - Display pages supported for current video mode
20    400 - Scan lines in current video mode
21      0 - Primary character block
22      0 - Secondary character block
23     31 - Miscellaneous state information - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 
24          Yes - All modes on all displays active
25           No - Summing to grey shades active
26           No - Monochrome display attached
27           No - Mode setting default palette loading disabled
28          Yes - Cursor emulation active
29          Yes - Background intensity
30            0 - Reserved
31            0 - Reserved
32     13 - Video Adapter Interface - 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 
33          Yes - BIOS supports AI information return
34          Yes - AI driver required
35           No - 16-bit VGA graphics present
36          Yes - VGA attributes set
37          Yes - 132-column mode supported
38            0 - Reserved
39            0 - Reserved
40            0 - Reserved
41 256 KB - Video memory available
42
43Checking for XGA DMQS BIOS interface
44DMQS supported, data length 32 bytes
45
46Slot   8 - 8FDA Instance 6
47POS Data
48--------------------------
49    8FDA - Adapter ID
50   XGA-2 - Adapter Type
51       6 - Instance number
52   C6000 - C7BFF : XGA ROM Range (7 KB)
53   C7F00 - C7F7F : XGA Coprocessor Register Range (128 bytes)
54    2160 - Video I/O Base Address (Display Controller)
55Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
56 4056 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FD800000h)
57 4056 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FD800000h)
58      13 - Video Arbitration Level
59      On - Video Fairness
60

61XGA BIOS Display Mode Query and Set (DMQS)
62------------------------------------------
63       8 - Slot number
64       5 - XGA implementation function level identifier
65       3 - XGA implementation resolution level identifier
66       0 - Vendor identifier
67       0 - Vendor defined field
68    2160 - XGA Adapter I/O register base address
69    C7F0 - XGA Coprocessor register base address (C7F00h)
70Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
71 4056 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FD800000h)
72 4056 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FD800000h)
73    F0F0 - Composite ID of the attached display
74           F0F0 - IBM 8514/7554
75 1024 KB - Amount of video memory available
76Disabled - Alternate XGA Coprocessor register base address
77
78
79---------------------------------------------------------------
80Runstream (R) XGA-2 System Information and Utilities, Rel. 1.06
81Copyright (C) UnalZ, 2008.                 All rights reserved.
82---------------------------------------------------------------
83Run with the option -h for help on command line options

hope this is helpful - let me know if you need anything else 😀

Hi,
I'm adding log files, collected from two separate Model 90 XP's. File "XGA.LOG" is generated by a PS/2 with an integrated XGA adapter, while "XGA-2.LOG" is generated by a PS/2 with an early XGA-2 adapter (heatsinked RAMDAC).

XGA:

1Video Functionality/State Information
2-------------------------------------
3   E000 - Segment to static functionality information
4   592F - Offset to static functionality information
5     03 - Active video mode
6     80 - Character columns on screen (columns on screen)
7   4096 - Length of regenerative buffer (in bytes)
8   0000 - Starting address in regenerative buffer
9      0 - Active display page
10    3D4 - Display Controller address
11     29 - Current setting of 3x8 register
12     30 - Current setting of 3x9 register
13     25 - Character lines on screen (rows on screen)
14     16 - Scan lines per character (character height)
15     08 - Display combination code (active)
16     00 - Display combination code (alternative)
17     16 - Colors supported for current video mode
18      8 - Display pages supported for current video mode
19    400 - Scan lines in current video mode
20      0 - Primary character block
21      0 - Secondary character block
22     31 - Miscellaneous state information - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 
23          Yes - All modes on all displays active
24           No - Summing to grey shades active
25           No - Monochrome display attached
26           No - Mode setting default palette loading disabled
27          Yes - Cursor emulation active
28          Yes - Background intensity
29            0 - Reserved
30            0 - Reserved
31     13 - Video Adapter Interface - 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 
32          Yes - BIOS supports AI information return
33          Yes - AI driver required
34           No - 16-bit VGA graphics present
35          Yes - VGA attributes set
36          Yes - 132-column mode supported
37            0 - Reserved
38            0 - Reserved
39            0 - Reserved
40 256 KB - Video memory available
41
42Checking for XGA DMQS BIOS interface
43DMQS not supported
44
45Slot   0 - 8FDB Instance 6
46POS Data
47--------------------------
48    8FDB - Adapter ID
49     XGA - Adapter Type
50       6 - Instance number
51   D8000 - D9BFF : XGA ROM Range (7 KB)
52   D9F00 - D9F7F : XGA Coprocessor Register Range (128 bytes)
53    2160 - Video I/O Base Address (Display Controller)
54Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
55 4056 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FD800000h)
56 4056 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FD800000h)
57      13 - Video Arbitration Level
58      On - Video Fairness
59
60

61---------------------------------------------------------------
62Runstream (R) XGA-2 System Information and Utilities, Rel. 1.06
63Copyright (C) UnalZ, 2008.                 All rights reserved.
64---------------------------------------------------------------
65Run with the option -h for help on command line options

XGA-2:

1
2Video Functionality/State Information
3-------------------------------------
4   E000 - Segment to static functionality information
5   592F - Offset to static functionality information
6     03 - Active video mode
7     80 - Character columns on screen (columns on screen)
8   4096 - Length of regenerative buffer (in bytes)
9   0000 - Starting address in regenerative buffer
10      0 - Active display page
11    3D4 - Display Controller address
12     29 - Current setting of 3x8 register
13     30 - Current setting of 3x9 register
14     25 - Character lines on screen (rows on screen)
15     16 - Scan lines per character (character height)
16     08 - Display combination code (active)
17     00 - Display combination code (alternative)
18     16 - Colors supported for current video mode
19      8 - Display pages supported for current video mode
20    400 - Scan lines in current video mode
21      0 - Primary character block
22      0 - Secondary character block
23     31 - Miscellaneous state information - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 
24          Yes - All modes on all displays active
25           No - Summing to grey shades active
26           No - Monochrome display attached
27           No - Mode setting default palette loading disabled
28          Yes - Cursor emulation active
29          Yes - Background intensity
30            0 - Reserved
31            0 - Reserved
32     13 - Video Adapter Interface - 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 
33          Yes - BIOS supports AI information return
34          Yes - AI driver required
35           No - 16-bit VGA graphics present
36          Yes - VGA attributes set
37          Yes - 132-column mode supported
38            0 - Reserved
39            0 - Reserved
40            0 - Reserved
41 256 KB - Video memory available
42
43Checking for XGA DMQS BIOS interface
44DMQS supported, data length 64 bytes
45
46Slot   2 - 8FDA Instance 1
47POS Data
48--------------------------
49    8FDA - Adapter ID
50   XGA-2 - Adapter Type
51       1 - Instance number
52   C0000 - C1BFF : XGA ROM Range (7 KB)
53   C1C80 - C1CFF : XGA Coprocessor Register Range (128 bytes)
54    2110 - Video I/O Base Address (Display Controller)
55Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
56 4036 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FC400000h)
57 4036 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FC400000h)
58      11 - Video Arbitration Level
59      On - Video Fairness
60

61XGA BIOS Display Mode Query and Set (DMQS)
62------------------------------------------
63       2 - Slot number
64       5 - XGA implementation function level identifier
65       3 - XGA implementation resolution level identifier
66       0 - Vendor identifier
67       0 - Vendor defined field
68    2110 - XGA Adapter I/O register base address
69    C1C8 - XGA Coprocessor register base address (C1C80h)
70Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
71 4036 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FC400000h)
72 4036 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FC400000h)
73    F0F0 - Composite ID of the attached display
74           F0F0 - IBM 8514/7554
75 1024 KB - Amount of video memory available
76Disabled - Alternate XGA Coprocessor register base address
77
78
79Slot   0 - 8FDB Instance 6
80POS Data
81--------------------------
82    8FDB - Adapter ID
83     XGA - Adapter Type
84       6 - Instance number
85   C2000 - C3BFF : XGA ROM Range (7 KB)
86   C3F00 - C3F7F : XGA Coprocessor Register Range (128 bytes)
87    2160 - Video I/O Base Address (Display Controller)
88Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
89 4056 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FD800000h)
90 4056 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FD800000h)
91      13 - Video Arbitration Level
92      On - Video Fairness
93
94XGA BIOS Display Mode Query and Set (DMQS)
95------------------------------------------
96       0 - Slot number
97       3 - XGA implementation function level identifier
98       0 - XGA implementation resolution level identifier
99       0 - Vendor identifier
100       0 - Vendor defined field
101    2160 - XGA Adapter I/O register base address
102    C3F0 - XGA Coprocessor register base address (C3F00h)
103Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
104 4056 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FD800000h)
105 4056 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FD800000h)
106    FFFF - Composite ID of the attached display
107           FFFF - Unknown monitor type
108 1024 KB - Amount of video memory available
109Disabled - Alternate XGA Coprocessor register base address
110
111
112---------------------------------------------------------------
113Runstream (R) XGA-2 System Information and Utilities, Rel. 1.06
114Copyright (C) UnalZ, 2008.                 All rights reserved.
115---------------------------------------------------------------
116Run with the option -h for help on command line options

@MMaximus and @SSTV2

both of you - many thanks!

it's very interesting, to be honest I did not expect that, because @MMaximus model 80 reports "DMQS supported" - that fails in 86box even when VM is emulating Model 80. So, that kind of confirms my suspicious that maybe there are BIOS revisions without DMQS, even I suspected that I don't really believe it until now or who knows maybe is indication something is not quite right in 86box.

At the same time @SSTV2 two different Model 90 one is "DMQS supported" and the other "DMQS not supported", but that makes sense, because one is XGA-1 and contrary to XGA-2 it doesn't support DMQS . So, I assume that maybe the BIOS checks if the card is XGA-1 and disables the DMQS in such case. Still, it's not clear, maybe the 2 machines are with different BIOSes.

So, please, as next test, download this small tool I made:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/go3tg43rxmuofw … S2TEST.zip/file

and run it - let's hope it will output "FAIL" in "DMQS not supported" machines and "GOOD" in "DMQS supported" machine - that at least will confirm I understand how XGAAIDOS.sys driver checks for DMQS.

Also, I guess at this point is good idea to re-run "xga2", but this time collect full log and so we can compare BIOS revisions:

1xga2 -s >> xga_full.log

In the mean time I will prepare 2 more small tools that will read Index 53H of XGA card registers (which is totally undocumented - it's good we currently have 3 machines from which we can read its value - best we get the same value, don't care to understand it and just hard-code it in 86box). The other tool will read Index 52H just to double check if I understand its content correctly.

mattw wrote on 2022-12-26, 20:57:

let's hope it will output "FAIL" in "DMQS not supported" machines and "GOOD" in "DMQS supported" machine

The result was exactly that - FAIL on the XGA and PASS on the XGA-2 graphics adapter.

Adding full logs of both machines, some notes on hardware setup for completeness:

PS/2 with an XGA-2:
-Uses TYPE 2 CPU complex "H" with an updated DMA chip, has a 486 DX2 on it running at 66 MHz;
-16 MB of RAM, interleaved (4x4MB);
-Has a SCSI adapter (J1);
-Has a token-ring adapter (J4);
-XGA-2 on J3 slot.

PS/2 with an XGA:
-Uses TYPE 2 CPU complex "H" with a buggy DMA chip, has a 486 SX on it running at 25 MHz;
-16 MB of RAM, non-interleaved (2x8MB);
-Has a SCSI adapter (J1);
-Has a token-ring adapter (J4).

The BIOS chip is located on the CPU complex card (not on planar) and both machines use the same BIOS image - 41G9361 (I had them updated personally).

SSTV2 wrote on 2022-12-26, 23:48:

mattw wrote on 2022-12-26, 20:57:

let's hope it will output "FAIL" in "DMQS not supported" machines and "GOOD" in "DMQS supported" machine

The result was exactly that - FAIL on the XGA and PASS on the XGA-2 graphics adapter.

excellent, so at least one thing confirmed that I am correct about it. So, it seems IBM's XGAAIDOS.sys driver and most applications do those checks, i.e. will basically run only in PS/2 and on MCA bus and behave a little different in XGA detection depending on DMQS support availability. However, we know there are ISA XGA cards like this one:

Help with this ISA XGA card?

and thanks to @cyclone3d even BIOS dump is available (exciting!) in this aforementioned forum post.

I guess one last ultimate goal for me will be patch that makes all those drivers/applications run without need of PS/2 and MCA bus, at least in emulator, but let first make the intended case of PS/2 and MCA bus working to a perfection.

SSTV2 wrote on 2022-12-26, 23:48:

The BIOS chip is located on the CPU complex card (not on planar) and both machines use the same BIOS image - 41G9361 (I had them updated personally).

I guess in later models like yours we can be sure now - check is done, i.e. the BIOS is intelligent enough and if XGA-1 card is installed, then DMQS support is disabled. Still, it's pending why DMQS check for Model 80 fails in 86box (for me with XGA-2 card emulated) and succeeds for @MMaximus on real machine, but it will really become clear after @MMaximus collect logs as well.

@SSTV2 : in few minutes or so, I will prepare the next batch of test tools - they will read few suspecting XGA values... thank you one more time for doing such good tests and doing it so fast - really appreciate that!

OK, here are the next 4 test tool and they are the last ones I have for the time being, i.e. after we collect the output from them I will not bother you with more tests (at least for some time until I am analyzing the results and trying to make more sense what is going on):

https://www.mediafire.com/file/aztaad023lw8wa … atests.zip/file

and here is their overview:

* "XGARD53H.EXE" - very important, it reads XGA Index 53H, which as far as I can tell is totally undocumented, hence why is so important we collect values from several different systems

* "XGARD52H.EXE" - important, t reads XGA Index 52H, it's documented, but I am not sure for few bits and that will help to confirm them

* "PS2BUS.EXE" - optional, run it if you're not lazy doing, it just checks if it can detect MCA bus, in which case the output is "MC Bus", otherwise the output is "PC bus" and the last one is very wrong if it happen in PS/2 system with MCA

* "COMPID.EXE" - very optional, it tries to detect the PS/2 model

Here are screenshots from my run of those tools in 86box:

Just ran all of the provided tests on both machines and the following results were obtained:

XGA machine:

COMPID.EXE - Model: Unknown;
PS2BUS.EXE - PoC: MC Bus;
XGARD52H.EXE - Index 52H value: 21EA;
XGARD53H.EXE - Index 53H value: 2130.

XGA-2 machine:

COMPID.EXE - Model: Unknown;
PS2BUS .EXE - PoC: MC Bus;
XGARD52H.EXE - Index 52H value: 21EF;
XGARD53H.EXE - Index 53H value: 2130.

mattw wrote on 2022-12-27, 11:11:

OK, here are the next 4 test tool and they are the last ones I have for the time being, i.e. after we collect the output from them I will not bother you with more tests

Don't worry about it, I've been planning to start working on those PS/2's for a long time and as long as I have them set-up, I have no problem doing a few tests to help someone out.

@SSTV2 : Wow, more surprises in terms of values. It's good we're making emulators, the only real way to preserve those old machines and technologies forever, but it's like no one is actually validating those emulators against real machines - not that I am blaming anyone, I myself was not able to buy real PS/2 with XGA card. That's why I am grateful there are people like you that are willing to invest some time and help. Obviously, just reading the specifications is not enough.

So, COMPID/PS2BUS test is OK, as far as it detects MCA bus, it doesn't matter it doesn't recognize the Model ID - that I guess is for hardcore PS/2 fans, i.e. further to work and build full table with all Model IDs that IBM used over the years, if they are interested in such a thing.

I can see in x86 ASM code of disassembler-ed IBM's XGAAIDOS.sys, it compares Index 53H value to 0x30, but I did not expect it will be exactly 0x30 and it's good on 2 machines is the same value - I guess we just hardcode it as it's not documented what it means - maybe if someone else makes dump and we get different value than 0x30 we can eventually understand what it means, but for the time being, just hard-code it to 0x30 should be fine. (I was suspecting it's some Revision value, but that no longer makes sense, because you get the same on XGA-1 and on XGA-2 card).

Now, the new main question - what you get for Index 52H is confusing, even for a moment I thought you maybe swapped the values from XGARD52H and XGARD53H output, but I don't think that's the case. So, please, get XGAKIT:

https://ardent-tool.com/video/XGAKIT.ZIP

and run "XGADEMO.EXE" on the machine with "XGARD52H.EXE - Index 52H value: 21EF;" - I don't see any way how it can work with value of 0xEF for Index 52H and so I expect it will error out - in any case error out or not after quit "XGADEMO.EXE" , run again "XGARD52H.EXE" to see what is the current value there. For completeness and maybe even more surprises you can do that same test on the other machine with "XGARD52H.EXE - Index 52H value: 21EA;" - at least 0xEA seems like good value that "XGADEMO.EXE" will run with no complains, but who knows...

@SSTV2 : wait, on 2nd thought, I think the result is so weird in the machine with XGA-2 card, because there is bug in my XGARD52H/XGARD53H - in machine like yours with 2 x XGA cards, one XGA-1 (on-board) and one XGA-2 as add-on card, my tools always pickup the XGA-1 card and in that case the on-board XGA-1 card is effectively disabled. Let me make new versions, that will be limited to always choose the XGA-2 card. I will update this post with download link...

[EDIT] OK, here is the fix for XGA-2:

https://download1073.mediafire.com/pwm3wsm2cv … 70/xga2rd5x.zip

I called the new tools "xga2rd52" and xga2rd53" - to avoid confusion and mistakes - also the output will say "XGA2" - as the attached screenshot.

So, use those only on the Machine with XGA-2 card installed, they will make the correct dump - the previous dump you made is the disabled XGA-1 card in that machine. Sorry, I did not realized it earlier. One more time, do not run on the XGA-1 only machine - the old tools are OK there plus this one will return undefined value if it cannot find XGA-2 card.

I had a suspicion that it reads register values off an XGA adapter on an XGA-2 machine, this time values are different:

XGA2 Index 52H value: 21FA;
XGA2 Index 53H value: 2153.

SSTV2 wrote on 2022-12-27, 21:10:

XGA2 Index 52H value: 21FA;
XGA2 Index 53H value: 2153.

Great! Now thanks to your tests, the undocumented Index 53H became really obvious:

* on XGA-1 card its value is 0x30 and DMQS reports:

1       3 - XGA implementation function level identifier
2       0 - XGA implementation resolution level identifier

* on XGA-2 card its value is 0x53 and DMQS reports:

1       5 - XGA implementation function level identifier
2       3 - XGA implementation resolution level identifier

and my initial suspicion that it's some kind of Revision number turned out to be true. So, it all starts to make sense - IBM undocumented it, because they hide it behind DMQS call, but DMQS (currently) fails in 86box VM. Amazing, hope if I hit more problems can contact you again here to do some more dumps for me, thank you!

@ MMaximus : please, when have time, do collect:

1xga2 -s >> xga_full.log

because you have Model 80 - same as what 86box emulates and yet in your system DMQS works, while it fails in 86box. thanks.

You are welcome, keep up the good work 😉

Out of curiosity, I created a virtual IBM PS/2 Model 80 in the "86Box" and enabled the XGA-2 adapter in the options. The first thing I encountered, when installing XGA-2 from the reference diskette, was a resource conflict, which manifested as an inability to allocate space for the video BIOS in the system memory. I tried almost everything, but couldn't allocate resources for the XGA-2's BIOS.

According to MMaximus provided log, XGA-2 ROM address range should be C6000 - C7FFF.