good catch and observation - probably another bug, I did not even noticed that, because instead "PS/2 SCSI Adapter" as in your case, I have "ESDI Fixed Disk" in my config and thus no conflict is shown explicitly (to draw my attention on it) like in your case, where C6000 - C7FFF is obviously subset of C0000 - C7FFF and already occupied by the SCSI Adapter. however, "no resource allocated" seems wrong, especially considering @MMaximus log. I guess that is already fixed in the upcoming @TC1995 patches, that are not public yet, but for the record, on what we were working here was this:

Made reg 0x53 (read only) default temp val to 0x70 to satisfy xgaaidos.sys's detection.

https://github.com/86Box/86Box/commit/8767bb5 … 934cbaf4df433fc

i.e. that some basically almost random and still wrong value was chosen for Index 53h in the emulation and I can still see that XGAAIDOS.sys doesn't really like the value.

mattw wrote on 2022-12-27, 21:40:

@ MMaximus : please, when have time, do collect: […]
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@ MMaximus : please, when have time, do collect:

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1xga2 -s >> xga_full.log

because you have Model 80 - same as what 86box emulates and yet in your system DMQS works, while it fails in 86box. thanks.

I won't have access to this system for a few days but I'll run the tests once it's possible again 😀

BTW I also have a model 95 but I suppose it's redundant with the model 90 from @SSTV2. If it's of interest to you anyway I might be able to run tests on it as well.

I tried emulating an ESDI controller instead of SCSI, but the XGA-2 BIOS still wouldn't get resources allocated, for some reason you're not even allowed to change the ROM address range. However, I noticed one discrepancy when changing the address range of the SCSI ROM - it gets assigned 8000H (32KB) and the next range setting partially overlaps the previous one. For example, the first range is C0000-C7FFF, followed by C4000-CBFFF, obviously two separate devices with such resource settings would conflict with each other.

The total memory range that can be allocated to devices on an IBM PS/2 80 (if I'm not mistaken) and in my case an IBM PS/2 90 is 128KB (C0000-DFFFF), so only 4 devices can realistically be configured on an 86Box without conflicts.

On my Model 90, the ROM address range can be changed in 2000H (8KB) increments, starting with C0000 and ending with DFFFF, making the following ranges possible:

C0000-C1FFF
C2000-C3FFF
C4000-C5FFF
C6000-C7FFF
C8000-C9FFF
CA000-CBFFF
CC000-CDFFF
CE000-CFFFF
D0000-D1FFF
D2000-D3FFF
D4000-D5FFF
D6000-D7FFF
D8000-D9FFF
DA000-DBFFF
DC000-DDFFF
DE000-DFFFF

And judging by the MMaximus example, his Model 80 is also able to allocate 8KB space for an XGA-2 ROM at least.

Hope this helps.

*EDIT
In the SCSI adapter case on an emulated Model 80, addresses are allocated OK if the ROM size is actually 32KB. On my Model 90 no resources are allocated for the SCSI ROM and XGA/XGA-2, and the token ring adapter ROMs are getting allocated 8KB memory each.*

@MMaximus : currently, most helpful would be "xga2 -s >> xga_full.log" from your Model 80 to investigate the DMQS support issue. Other tests would be mostly redundant, but it depends on what XGA-2 card revision you have - if you look here:

https://github.com/86Box/86Box/issues/2983#is … ment-1366216876

I already deducted that previous revision of XGA-2 cards will have value of 0x50 (instead of 0x53) for Index 53H, because the one that @SSTV2 has - it seems it's the latest revision. So, newer XGA-2 cards are shorter in length, while older are longer. I guess based on that I can ask you to run some of the other tests, but otherwise it's not worth to waste your time.

@SSTV2 : I think you're up to something, even I cannot tell what is wrong with 86box at the moment, but maybe that's why DMQS fails - we already know based on your tests DMQS is auto-disabled by the BIOS in case of XGA-1 card (which is correct because XGA-1 just doesn't support DMQS), but maybe when XGA-2 is not properly initialized by the BIOS (due to 86box bug), then that results in no DMQS. So, I think those issues very likely are related. In any way, the XGA emu is only about 6 months old and already the progress is tremendous. So, I believe in the next few months it will be functional enough, especially with more people joining the effort.

actually, in my previous post I am talking total nonsense in my reply to @MMaximus, because still there is no connection in my brain to our latest finding about Index 53H and xga2 info tool DMQS output:

Re: Help anyone with IBM PS2 and XGA card on MCA bus

So, based on @MMaximus logs :

Re: Help anyone with IBM PS2 and XGA card on MCA bus

the card is:

1       5 - XGA implementation function level identifier
2
3       3 - XGA implementation resolution level identifier

which means "53H=0x53", i.e. the same 90Mhz DAC revision as the one @SSTV2 has. Now, as I am no PS/2 expert, but based on what I read:

* the longer cards are XGA-1, i.e. they have to be "53H=0x30"
* then there are 3 types of shorter cards, all XGA-2, but have differently looking DAC:
- with Heatsink
- without Heatsink and white sticker instead
- Blueish in color

cut and attach pictures of all those types (the Blue one resolution is terrible, but still you can make out that it's blue color). So, at least one of them I expect to be "53H=0x50", i.e. 45Mhz, but who knows maybe XGA-2 with 45Mhz DAC was never publicly released and they are all "53H=0x53".

@MMaximus and @SSTV2 : just out curiosity how the DAC chip looks on your cards from the above 3 options - maybe we can at least in the end of 2022, almost 2023 tell, how at least some of 90MHz DACs are looking, as you both have cards with 90MHz DAC for sure.

You probably have already noticed what XGA-2 adapter I have from this post, but to make sure there are no doubts - it's the first revision with a heatsinked RAMDAC (part number should be 33G0327ESD)

I have dumped the first 8KB of the UMA's C segment, where the XGA-2 BIOS is mapped on my machine. Its contents exactly match the beginning of this XGA-2 BIOS image, maybe it'll help in the future:

mattw wrote on 2022-12-28, 16:10:

but maybe that's why DMQS fails - we already know based on your tests DMQS is auto-disabled by the BIOS in case of XGA-1 card (which is correct because XGA-1 just doesn't support DMQS), but maybe when XGA-2 is not properly initialized by the BIOS (due to 86box bug), then that results in no DMQS. So, I think those issues very likely are related.

It has to be it, XGA-2 adapter simply isn't properly configured by the emulator.

SSTV2 wrote on 2022-12-29, 18:57:

it's the first revision with a heatsinked RAMDAC

I don't know which one is the 1st revision and so here I count on your good knowledge about PS/2, but then it means even the 1st XGA-2 is 90MHz RAMDAC, i.e. "Index 53H=0x53", I guess that means there are no "Index 53H=0x50" (45MHz RAMDAC) XGA-2 cards.

SSTV2 wrote on 2022-12-29, 18:57:

I have dumped the first 8KB of the UMA's C segment, where the XGA-2 BIOS is mapped on my machine. Its contents exactly match the beginning of this XGA-2 BIOS image, maybe it'll help in the future:

XGA-2_C0000-C1FFF.zip

thanks, that confirms your card is using the same XGA-2 BIOS, it's good we know that.

SSTV2 wrote on 2022-12-29, 18:57:

It has to be it, XGA-2 adapter simply isn't properly configured by the emulator.

I am looking at that, but still have no idea...

mattw wrote on 2022-12-29, 14:15:

@MMaximus and @SSTV2 : just out curiosity how the DAC chip looks on your cards from the above 3 options - maybe we can at least in the end of 2022, almost 2023 tell, how at least some of 90MHz DACs are looking, as you both have cards with 90MHz DAC for sure.

I don't have access to my machine at the moment but I bought my XGA adapter from WBST on amibay a few years ago. Here is the archived thread - you might be able to get more info about the adapter from the picture

MMaximus wrote on 2022-12-29, 20:20:

I don't have access to my machine at the moment but I bought my XGA adapter from WBST on amibay a few years ago. Here is the archived thread - you might be able to get more info about the adapter from the picture

same as @SSTV2, i.e. "RAMDAC with Heatsink". according to @SSTV2 those are the 1st revision of XGA-2 cards, which means there are no XGA-2 cards with "Index 53H=0x50", even the 1st one were with 90MHz RAMDAC, which is quite nice actually.

Please reference to this link.

https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/XGA2.html

XGA-2 all of them have slightly different versions but as far as IBM is concerned, is equivalent in specs, officially. There is no such as 45MHz ramdac, this is rated around 75MHz for all of these.

Keep working on your projects, good to see this go on anyway.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2022-12-29, 21:10:

https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/XGA2.html

XGA-2 all of them have slightly different versions but as far as IBM is concerned, is equivalent in specs, officially. There is no such as 45MHz ramdac, this is rated around 75MHz for all of these.

thanks, it's all getting together, because in IBM 's "XGA Technical Reference Manual May 1992" I found:

XGA Display Adapter/A : Maximum 45 MHz Pel rate
XGA-NI Serializer Palette DAC: Maximum 90 MHz Pel rate

the frequency is programmable and so even if 75MHz was the maximum used in practice, it's still 90MHz RAMDAC. I think there is no doubt now - up to 90Mhz for XGA-2 and up to 45Mhz for XGA-1.

Ah, that make sense. I was getting your notation that were focused on XGA-2 only.

By the way, XGA-1 is not much to write about basically a minor improvement over 8514/A card, while XGA-2 is much useful.
PS: IBM designed a card to do 1024 x 768 or any resolution interlaced mode is horrible! I had seen one in action, can't stand it instantly.
Back in the day, when I was shopping for monitor, I wanted 75Hz support with dot pitch of .28 for this very reason since I can detect 60Hz non-interlaced flicker.
Later on, when I needed another new monitor to replace the old one, I next wanted 85Hz support.

Then once LCD got mainsteam, I never looked back due to flicker and heat, bulk were the negatives.

Cheers,

Here's the full log

1System Configuration Parameters
2-------------------------------
3System  PS/2 Model 80 (Non-matching BIOS Revision Level) 
4  MCA - Microchannel bus implemented
5   F8 - Model
6   80 - Submodel
7   02 - BIOS Revision Level
8        BIOS Version date: 02/15/90
9   03 - CPU Type - 80386
10   05 - CPU Stepping Level
11    0 - Keyboard ID - ?
12  Yes - Diskette drive present
13    0 - Additional diskette drives present
14   No - Math coprocessor installed
15   No - Pointing device installed
16    1 - Asynchronous communication ports
17    1 - Parallel ports
18
19*  F6 - Feature Byte 1 [ 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0  ]
20   No - System has dual-bus capability
21  Yes - Microchannel bus implemented
22  Yes - Extended BIOS data area allocated
23   No - Wait for External Event function supported
24  Yes - Keyboard intercept function available
25  Yes - Real-time clock available
26  Yes - Second 8259 interrupt controller present
27  Yes - Fixed disk BIOS uses DMA channel 3
28
29*  78 - Feature Byte 2 [ 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0  ]
30    0 - Reserved
31   No - Data Streaming supported
32   No - 8042 keyboard controller present
33  Yes - Enable/Disable Processor functions supported
34  Yes - Return Memory-Map Information function supported
35  Yes - Return POS Data function supported
36  Yes - Keyboard Functionality Determination function supported
37        Yes - Return to default typematic rate/delay supported
38         No - Turn on/off typematic supported
39        Yes - Set typematic rate/delay supported
40        Yes - Get current typematic rate/delay supported
41         No - Keyboard ID supported
42         No - 101-/102-key keyboard functions supported
43         No - 122-key keyboard functions supported
44          0 - Reserved
45    0 - Reserved
46
47*  00 - Feature Byte 3 [ 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  ]
48   No - SCSI support in IML
49   No - IML System
50   No - Information panel installed
51   No - SCSI subsystem supported on the system board
52    0 - Reserved
53    0 - Reserved
54    0 - Reserved
55    0 - Reserved
56
57*  00 - Feature Byte 4 [ 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  ]
58
59*  00 - Feature Byte 5 [ 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  ]
60   No - Flash BIOS present

61
62*  4A - Interrupt 4Bh Advanced Services [ 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0  ]
63    0 - Reserved
64  Yes - Generic SCSI CBIOS service supported
65    0 - Reserved
66  Yes - Interrupt 4Bh intercepted
67    0 - Reserved
68   No - Operating System supports DMA services
69    1 - Reserved
70    0 - Reserved
71
72Video Functionality/State Information
73-------------------------------------
74   E000 - Segment to static functionality information
75   4EA3 - Offset to static functionality information
76     03 - Active video mode
77     80 - Character columns on screen (columns on screen)
78   4096 - Length of regenerative buffer (in bytes)
79   0000 - Starting address in regenerative buffer
80      0 - Active display page
81    3D4 - Display Controller address
82     29 - Current setting of 3x8 register
83     30 - Current setting of 3x9 register
84     25 - Character lines on screen (rows on screen)
85     16 - Scan lines per character (character height)
86     08 - Display combination code (active)
87     00 - Display combination code (alternative)
88     16 - Colors supported for current video mode
89      8 - Display pages supported for current video mode
90    400 - Scan lines in current video mode
91      0 - Primary character block
92      0 - Secondary character block
93     31 - Miscellaneous state information - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 
94          Yes - All modes on all displays active
95           No - Summing to grey shades active
96           No - Monochrome display attached
97           No - Mode setting default palette loading disabled
98          Yes - Cursor emulation active
99          Yes - Background intensity
100            0 - Reserved
101            0 - Reserved
102     13 - Video Adapter Interface - 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 
103          Yes - BIOS supports AI information return
104          Yes - AI driver required
105           No - 16-bit VGA graphics present
106          Yes - VGA attributes set
107          Yes - 132-column mode supported
108            0 - Reserved
109            0 - Reserved
110            0 - Reserved
111 256 KB - Video memory available
112
113System Memory Map Information
114-----------------------------
115      7168 KB - Local memory between 1MB and 16MB
116         0 KB - Local memory between 16MB and 4GB
117     15360 KB - System memory between 1MB and 16MB
118         0 KB - System memory between 16MB and 4GB
119     15360 KB - Cacheable memory between 1MB and 16MB
120         0 KB - Cacheable memory between 16MB and 4GB
121     15360 KB - Before the start of non-system memory between 1MB and 16MB
122   4112384 KB - Before the start of non-system memory between 16MB and 4GB
123
124Memory types:
125
126     Local - Memory on the system board or memory that is not accessible
127             from the channel. It can be system or non-system memory.
128
129   Channel - Memory on adapters. It can be system or non-system memory.
130
131    System - Memory that is managed and allocated by the primary OS.
132             This memory is cached if the cache is enabled.
133
134Non-system - Memory that is not managed and allocated by the primary OS.
135             This memory includes memory-mapped I/O devices, adapter memory
136             directly modifiable by the adapter and relocatable memory such
137             as bank-switched and expanded-memory-specs (EMS) memory.
138             This memory is not cached.
139
140Planar Devices:
141---------------
142Planar  1: FFF9  Planar ID - PS/2 Model 8580-Axx
143Planar  2: ----  POS
144Planar  3: ----  Video
145Planar  4: ----  POS
146Planar  5: ----  SCSI 56/57
147Planar  6: ----  POS
148Planar  7: ----  SCSI 76/77/85
149Planar  8: ----  POS
150
151Slot Adapters:
152---------------
153Slot    1: FCFF
154Slot    2: ----
155Slot    3: 6042
156Slot    4: 8EFE
157Slot    5: ----
158Slot    6: ----
159Slot    7: E000
160Slot    8: 8FDA
161
162( 5 ) Adapters found
163
164
165Checking for XGA DMQS BIOS interface
166DMQS supported, data length 32 bytes
167
168Slot   8 - 8FDA Instance 6
169POS Data
170--------------------------
171    8FDA - Adapter ID
172   XGA-2 - Adapter Type
173       6 - Instance number
174   C6000 - C7BFF : XGA ROM Range (7 KB)
175   C7F00 - C7F7F : XGA Coprocessor Register Range (128 bytes)
176    2160 - Video I/O Base Address (Display Controller)
177Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
178 4056 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FD800000h)
179 4056 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FD800000h)
180      13 - Video Arbitration Level
181      On - Video Fairness
182
183XGA BIOS Display Mode Query and Set (DMQS)
184------------------------------------------
185       8 - Slot number
186       5 - XGA implementation function level identifier
187       3 - XGA implementation resolution level identifier
188       0 - Vendor identifier
189       0 - Vendor defined field
190    2160 - XGA Adapter I/O register base address
191    C7F0 - XGA Coprocessor register base address (C7F00h)
192Disabled - 1 MB Video Memory Aperture
193 4056 MB - 4 MB Video Memory Aperture Base Address (FD800000h)
194 4056 MB - Video Memory Base Address (FD800000h)
195    F0F0 - Composite ID of the attached display
196           F0F0 - IBM 8514/7554
197 1024 KB - Amount of video memory available
198Disabled - Alternate XGA Coprocessor register base address
199
200
201---------------------------------------------------------------
202Runstream (R) XGA-2 System Information and Utilities, Rel. 1.06
203Copyright (C) UnalZ, 2008.                 All rights reserved.
204---------------------------------------------------------------
205Run with the option -h for help on command line options

@MMaximus : thanks, your physical Model80 machine has the exact same BIOS version as 86box VM Model80. So, I think DMQS gets disabled most likely due to what @SSTV2 noticed about the overlapping ROM ranges. I hope with help of 86box developers all those findings be put together and soon we have something (better) working.

Cool - glad it helped and let me know whenever you need me to do any more tests 👍