lon3heart wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:23:

Hey! […]
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Hey!

First up, if this threat doesn't belong here please let me know :3

But the actual point of this threat is exactly what the headline say's, where could i get 'retro' hardware?
I am currently searching for a Windows 98 computer for some 98 and DOS games, and I got a decent idea of what I want to have, but the price tag always seems to be too high.
I mean old Hardware is old and rare and old and strange and old, but 200€ for just a voodoo3 in an 'it may work' state seems a bit... bad.
But it could be that this is just because I live in Germany and the parts are just rarer here? I don't know but the whole point of all this here is to ask for sites or sellers of old hardware witch may have better prices, I know there are some but I cant seem to find them😅
But if that's just the Price for witch these things sell and there are no alternatives to ebay please let me know too🙃

so yea, that's all
Thanks in advance for anyone who can "help" me with my ""problem"" 😀

Bye!

You dont need a voodoo 3, a cheap geforce 4mx is amazing for dos.and windows

I dont know in germany here in spain q nice pentium 3 with isa card, is less than 80 euro and a win98 pentium 4 is less than 40 euro

Of course if you want a awe64, a voodoo, etc is another story

you dont need a voodoo 3, a cheap geforce 4mx is amazing for dos.and windows

I did think about a cheap geforce, trouble is that they cant do glide mode witch is one of the things i would want this pc to have, because i have trouble with playing glide games on my computer (yes I am aware of DGvoodoo's existence, it just doesn't work for me 😒 )

I dont know in germany here in spain q nice pentium 3 with isa card, is less than 80 euro and a win98 pentium 4 is less than 40 euro

Nice pentium 3 is what i am looking for, but somewhy there all pricy 😒

Hi and welcome to the forum! 😃
Sorry to say this but if you're looking for specific vintage hardware and want it right away it'll be expensive.
In Germany stuff used to pop up for reasonable prices more often some years ago and prices weren't comparable to what was normal in the USA but more recently even mediocre vintage hardware has become rather expensive and you have to be lucky to find a good deal.

My recommendation is to constantly browse ebay Kleinanzeigen using generic search terms like 'Mainboard', 'Grafikkarte' or 'Konvolut' in the electronics category and developing a good eye for recognising good stuff.

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:44:

Hi and welcome to the forum! 😃

Hi ^^

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:44:

Sorry to say this but if you're looking for specific vintage hardware and want it right away it'll be expensive.

well crap. While I don't need the stuff right away, it's true that i have a fairly specific idea of what i want to have..

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:44:

In Germany stuff used to pop up for reasonable prices more often some years ago and prices weren't comparable to what was normal in the USA but more recently even mediocre vintage hardware has become rather expensive and you have to be lucky to find a good deal.

They used to, but suddenly they don't anymore. Back then I was already looking for stuff but kinda without the intention to buy things, I was just interested in old stuff, now I kinda wish I bought some of the Stuff I saw😅

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:44:

My recommendation is to constantly browse ebay Kleinanzeigen using generic search terms like 'Mainboard', 'Grafikkarte' or 'Konvolut' in the electronics category and developing a good eye for recognising good stuff.

Well than I guess I try the ebay route again, thank for the help👍

You're welcome, even though I guess I couldn't help you that much.😅
In my opinion prices went up drastically at the start of the pandemic and never really went down. Since 2021 I noticed good offers on Win98 era hardware getting pretty rare. They still come up (For an example I scored a 1GHz Athlon classic this year complete with motherboard for 10€ so don't give up hope!) but they're much fewer and you really have to spend a lot of time browsing the usual websites to be the first person to declare interest or really good at spotting interesting hardware in junk piles.

Btw. nobody needs Pentium III class hardware for retro gaming. Almost any game that'll run on a Pentium III will run fine on newer hardware.
Also only few games will profit immensely from 3Dfx hardware and with current prices it's hardly worth it over what a cheap GeForce 4MX will deliver. Slowdown utilities and Glide emulation deliver pretty good results too.
If you want a good gameplay experience you don't have to spend big. The bloat in vintage hardware prices is mostly a collectors' tax still.

lon3heart wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:43:

I did think about a cheap geforce, trouble is that they cant do glide mode witch is one of the things i would want this pc to ha […]
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you dont need a voodoo 3, a cheap geforce 4mx is amazing for dos.and windows

I did think about a cheap geforce, trouble is that they cant do glide mode witch is one of the things i would want this pc to have, because i have trouble with playing glide games on my computer (yes I am aware of DGvoodoo's existence, it just doesn't work for me 😒 )

I dont know in germany here in spain q nice pentium 3 with isa card, is less than 80 euro and a win98 pentium 4 is less than 40 euro

Nice pentium 3 is what i am looking for, but somewhy there all pricy 😒

Hi, i think better to check why glide emulation is not working in your system, because i found glide emulation work amazing in win9x and nvidia cards

I always buy stuff from germany, for example i bought last month 3 thin client futro s200 to a german seller, very cheap, and this computers are GREAT windows 98 mini pc.machines, glide works amazing with integrated sis card

i always found nice retro stufd in ebay germany!!!

lon3heart wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:23:

I don't know but the whole point of all this here is to ask for sites or sellers of old hardware witch may have better prices, I know there are some but I cant seem to find them😅

Since you're based in Europe you can try amibay.com too.

In spain wallapop is god

But i think ebay in germany have shops or something like this that is nice inside germany

Too bad most people dont send outside germany

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

Btw. nobody needs Pentium III class hardware for retro gaming. Almost any game that'll run on a Pentium III will run fine on newer hardware.

that's good to know😅
I really only thought about the Pentium 3 because I know that some Boards can play the late Windows 98 games and the early DOS games with no problem, some even have clock dividers🙃
Thing is, if I where to build an DOS/win9x PC with a Pentium 4 or newer, could it still have ISA, or or could I play really aging DOS games like Lemmings or Zak? I always thought that boards newer than Pentium 3 would be 'too new' for this stuff. (ISA for a SoundBlaster i have btw👍)

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

Also only few games will profit immensely from 3Dfx hardware and with current prices it's hardly worth it over what a cheap GeForce 4MX will deliver. Slowdown utilities and Glide emulation deliver pretty good results too.

Slowdown Utilities?
and Glide emulation? On a new gfx card or on the mentioned Geforce 4? I kinda didn't get it😅😅

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

The bloat in vintage hardware prices is mostly a collectors' tax still.

Thats nice to know :3

theelf wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:25:

Hi, i think better to check why glide emulation is not working in your system, because i found glide emulation work amazing in win9x and nvidia cards

It works, but not on all games. It's somehow also a bit slow, Tropico 2 has weird slowdown while i scroll over the map
And Need for Speed 2 just doesn't want it at all😅

theelf wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:25:

I always buy stuff from germany, for example i bought last month 3 thin client futro s200 to a german seller, very cheap, and this computers are GREAT windows 98 mini pc.machines, glide works amazing with integrated sis card

Maybe I'm just not looking for the right stuff🤔

My experience is that cheapest tends to be local sellers, thrift stores and recycling centres.

There are occasionally deals to be had online (even on Ebay), but those tends to be few and far between.

It basically comes down to a trade off between lower availability via local sources versus more availability but higher prices on places like Ebay.

You should first identify which games you want to play, how authentic you want the experience, and how much aggravation you can handle. Set you price targets on how much you want to spend, as well as how much time to invest. You'll soon find out that a one size fits all machine without some kind of emulation, slow-down utility, or manually intervention is nigh impossible. It will always be stymied by that one game, which needs a new system. What sacrifices can you live with? This has an enormous impact on selections. Must you have the stars render properly in Thief 2? You'll want to avoid GeForce cards unless you have a Voodoo2 or alternate PCI video card to boot from. If you choose games like DOS Keen, you'll want to avoid ATI (but this can be patched out if you desire). If you want to play DOS Crusader No Remorse, don't install more than 128MB of RAM in the system. Do you want to play Star Wars Shadows of the Empire? Make sure you can limit FPS to 60, but preferably 30. What about Star Wars Rogue Squadron? Make sure the CPU is no faster than around 600MHz Pentium III or you'll have camera problems making the game unplayable without a lot of manually fuss. Do you want to play Unreal, it looks and performs best with a 3dfx card (opinions vary, though). Must you play the game Dreams to Reality with Glide? You need a Voodoo1. And so on...

lon3heart wrote on 2022-12-30, 18:42:

that's good to know😅 I really only thought about the Pentium 3 because I know that some Boards can play the late Windows 98 game […]
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Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

Btw. nobody needs Pentium III class hardware for retro gaming. Almost any game that'll run on a Pentium III will run fine on newer hardware.

that's good to know😅
I really only thought about the Pentium 3 because I know that some Boards can play the late Windows 98 games and the early DOS games with no problem, some even have clock dividers🙃
Thing is, if I where to build an DOS/win9x PC with a Pentium 4 or newer, could it still have ISA, or or could I play really aging DOS games like Lemmings or Zak? I always thought that boards newer than Pentium 3 would be 'too new' for this stuff. (ISA for a SoundBlaster i have btw👍)

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

Also only few games will profit immensely from 3Dfx hardware and with current prices it's hardly worth it over what a cheap GeForce 4MX will deliver. Slowdown utilities and Glide emulation deliver pretty good results too.

Slowdown Utilities?
and Glide emulation? On a new gfx card or on the mentioned Geforce 4? I kinda didn't get it😅😅

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

The bloat in vintage hardware prices is mostly a collectors' tax still.

Thats nice to know :3

theelf wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:25:

Hi, i think better to check why glide emulation is not working in your system, because i found glide emulation work amazing in win9x and nvidia cards

It works, but not on all games. It's somehow also a bit slow, Tropico 2 has weird slowdown while i scroll over the map
And Need for Speed 2 just doesn't want it at all😅

theelf wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:25:

I always buy stuff from germany, for example i bought last month 3 thin client futro s200 to a german seller, very cheap, and this computers are GREAT windows 98 mini pc.machines, glide works amazing with integrated sis card

Maybe I'm just not looking for the right stuff🤔

Check your private messages, dude.😉

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

Also only few games will profit immensely from 3Dfx hardware and with current prices it's hardly worth it over what a cheap GeForce 4MX will deliver. Slowdown utilities and Glide emulation deliver pretty good results too.

The only exception are the DOS games that supports Glide without having to rely on DOSBox. Also, for the authentic filtered look if the OP desires that. 😁

Meatball wrote on 2022-12-30, 19:50:

If you want to play DOS Crusader No Remorse, don't install more than 128MB of RAM in the system

The amount of RAM can be limited with software though.

Must you play the game Dreams to Reality with Glide? You need a Voodoo1.

Off-topic: This may no longer the case with Voodoo2 cards at least. Recently, I have hex-edited several versions of GLIDE2X.OVL from the original Voodoo Graphics for this. A crazy idea I got when games that used even older versions of the Glide API worked with the Voodoo2 after setting some environment variables. 😀

If anyone is interested, I may release it in the future so anyone can try and test them.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-01-01, 20:39:

The only exception are the DOS games that supports Glide without having to rely on DOSBox. Also, for the authentic filtered look […]
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Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

Also only few games will profit immensely from 3Dfx hardware and with current prices it's hardly worth it over what a cheap GeForce 4MX will deliver. Slowdown utilities and Glide emulation deliver pretty good results too.

The only exception are the DOS games that supports Glide without having to rely on DOSBox. Also, for the authentic filtered look if the OP desires that. 😁

Meatball wrote on 2022-12-30, 19:50:

If you want to play DOS Crusader No Remorse, don't install more than 128MB of RAM in the system

The amount of RAM can be limited with software though.

Must you play the game Dreams to Reality with Glide? You need a Voodoo1.

Off-topic: This may no longer the case with Voodoo2 cards at least. Recently, I have hex-edited several versions of GLIDE2X.OVL from the original Voodoo Graphics for this. A crazy idea I got when games that used even older versions of the Glide API worked with the Voodoo2 after setting some environment variables. 😀

If anyone is interested, I may release it in the future so anyone can try and test them.

I didn't feel like typing every work around, heh. Yes, the workarounds for just about every game are out there.

I am interested in testing Dreams-to-Reality if you ever release this effort!

Meatball wrote on 2023-01-01, 21:17:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-01-01, 20:39:

The only exception are the DOS games that supports Glide without having to rely on DOSBox. Also, for the authentic filtered look […]
Show full quote

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-12-30, 15:09:

Also only few games will profit immensely from 3Dfx hardware and with current prices it's hardly worth it over what a cheap GeForce 4MX will deliver. Slowdown utilities and Glide emulation deliver pretty good results too.

The only exception are the DOS games that supports Glide without having to rely on DOSBox. Also, for the authentic filtered look if the OP desires that. 😁

Meatball wrote on 2022-12-30, 19:50:

If you want to play DOS Crusader No Remorse, don't install more than 128MB of RAM in the system

The amount of RAM can be limited with software though.

Must you play the game Dreams to Reality with Glide? You need a Voodoo1.

Off-topic: This may no longer the case with Voodoo2 cards at least. Recently, I have hex-edited several versions of GLIDE2X.OVL from the original Voodoo Graphics for this. A crazy idea I got when games that used even older versions of the Glide API worked with the Voodoo2 after setting some environment variables. 😀

If anyone is interested, I may release it in the future so anyone can try and test them.

I didn't feel like typing every work around, heh. Yes, the workarounds for just about every game are out there.

I am interested in testing Dreams-to-Reality if you ever release this effort!

Thanks!

I have now created a new thread for that: DOS Glide 2.4x Mod for Voodoo2

While you're searching around online or in the wild ask your family and friends (older neighbors, etc.) if they have some stuff gathering dust that they would like to dispose of or sell. If people are aware of what you're looking for they can always remember of something they have, or even people they know that might have stuff too. You truly never know what's out there in people's attics, it's still perfectly possible to find lots of stuff. Either it will satisfy you or provide you more info and clarity to buy other things in the future.

If you want to dip your feet for the time being just to experience the OS and games I suggest the Pentium 4 era PCs, currently the "disregarded" generation, so they're much cheaper and commonly found than PCs from previous eras. I think Philscomputerlab has some YouTube videos about Pentium 4 Win98 builds on the cheap that work quite well. Phil always tries to provide cheap alternatives in the hobby which I very much appreciate, as most people don't get the YouTuber type level viewer donations, not even close. You will be able to experience lots of DOS stuff, and after some time with Win98 based games and DOS games you will know exactly what you want or need and more importantly what you're looking for, and that will give you the tools to really search efficiently.

For example, I started some years ago buying a P-III Celeron in a flea market by chance, and little by little upgraded the build to a 1Ghz P-III. Then my grandfather gave me his Pentium Pro that I used to play with in my childhood years, and I also found my Pentium IV build from the era in a family attic. After that I found myself lusting for a 1.4Ghz Pentium III-S Tualatin based PC, as Pentium III is my favorite era, so I started little by little gathering parts over 3 months until I finally build it. I didn't *need* it, but eventually realized there was a gap between my Win98SE and WinXP builds that I wanted to fill, but because I was prepared and informed I was able to gather the rarer than normal stuff to build it in that time period at good prices, even if it took longer than normal and was slightly more expensive than other things. But as said in posts above that's when the collector's tax comes into play. And lastly I got a full tower 486, a large tall tower case model that I could only dream of even seeing for sale as people recycled them by the hundreds in the 90's, and it practically never shows up for sale, whatever the price.

I only found this 486 that time, being the only occasion I even saw it for sale, because I knew that model quite well from research to the point where I identified it in a very blurry picture whilst browsing the ads list, with a very understated title. So if you have a clear idea of what you're looking for you will be prepared too. There are multiple ways to get what you want, and I still think it's perfectly possible to find good deals in this hobby for the time being, generally speaking. You already made a great decision registering in Vogons, people here really know their stuff and are super helpful, I should say! My 2 cents, best of luck

lon3heart wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:23:

But it could be that this is just because I live in Germany and the parts are just rarer here?

I would say Germany is a pretty good place to be for this hobby. Just like with every other hobby some basic investment is required, but it's still pretty inexpensive to get into it compared to other activities. ..unless you want the more rare stuff (like Voodoo) of course. But a capable Win98-system doesn't cost a lot. The most expensive part will be the mainboard.

I have decades hoarded parts for like to modest "10 pcs" full build desktop computers of 1990s-early 2000s.
But that is only because I was born in 1980s and I have naturally saved all PCs that I have ever had my hands on to.

A lot of people throw PCs to trash because they are large and heavy because of that continued throwing to trash today's old classic PCs are not found cheaply anymore.

Survived old classic PCs are hold on to "old people" like me the ones who lived with them when they were brand new.

When I die I will sell them or you can marry me.
Let alone my console and video games I love them too much.
Old PCs and games are not babe magnets though so many of us gamers probably die alone.

Face it old school offline gamers are not the most social people in the world.
The ones who tinkered with PCs in 1990s were all underdogs.
We were never "popular" if you know what I mean.
There were name calling and bullying involved if you said your hobby is computers or such.
Computers gave a change for escapism from reality.

lon3heart wrote on 2022-12-30, 14:23:

But the actual point of this threat is exactly what the headline say's, where could i get 'retro' hardware? […]
Show full quote

But the actual point of this threat is exactly what the headline say's, where could i get 'retro' hardware?

so yea, that's all
Thanks in advance for anyone who can "help" me with my ""problem"" 😀

Bye!

It's a matter of patience. If you are patient enough almost anything can come your way on the cheap. Especially if you know where to look. I'm not bathing in voodoo cards, but I never paid for more than 5€ for one. Visit recycling centers, auction/trading sites and look for unspecified and misidentified hardware or a bundle of hardware. My Voodoo2 was simply listed as "InnoVision card", my Geforce 256 DDR was as Elza Erazor X2, my Radeon DDR (Rage6) was listed as ATI Rage Theater, my AIW Rage128 Pro was listed as a generic TV tuner, my Diamond Monster Sound MX300 and Diamond Viper V330 both came from a vintage flea market from sellers who didn't know anything about them (the seller of the MX300 didn't even know it's a sound card), once I almost got a Voodoo Rush for $5 as part of an parts bundle, but somebody else was faster. These are hardware that generally cost several hundreds of $/€ to collect I got them all for less than 30.