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Bought these (retro) hardware today

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Reply 47460 of 53706, by Gmlb256

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No, compared to the GeForce 8800, the Radeon HD 2900 XT was inferior overall. Buy it if it is for curiosity's sake. 😁

Later they quite recovered with the Radeon HD 3000 series, but sales were still behind the GeForce cards.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce2 GTS 32 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 47461 of 53706, by stef80

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bestemor wrote on 2023-01-03, 16:32:

So, what's really the deal with these HD2900XT cards ?
(I am mostly familiar with Nvidia from that era, never used any ATI cards before)

If I find a cheap bunch/pair of these, should I buy them ? 😅

Not many of them are still around. It's very significant card in ATIs history and probably the reason why they got absorbed by AMD. First unified shader architecture by ATI. First incarnation of VLIW-5 architecure (followed by more successful HD3000, 4000 and 5000). It could not do AA in ROPs, so they used shaders instead ... which affected performance. It's actually surprise they managed to squeeze close to 8800GTS performance out of it. It used very complex ring bus memory controller which they cut in half with HD3000, and totaly abandoned starting with HD4000.

A clunky piece of hardware with good aesthetics that works in spite of it flaws ... I'd say. It's interesting in same way as Nvidia's FX or Fermi lineup.

I wouldnt say architecture was bad, they just messed up execution. Proof lies in HD3870 and HD4670 which had basically same architecture and specs, with some tveaks, but were way more efficient.

Last edited by stef80 on 2023-01-03, 17:24. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 47463 of 53706, by Gmlb256

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AlessandroB wrote on 2023-01-03, 17:23:

This

Excellent! 👍

Despite suggesting against getting the Roland SCC-1 card, I hope that you enjoy the genuine SC-55 sound bank without cable mess!

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce2 GTS 32 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 47464 of 53706, by Ozzuneoj

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AlessandroB wrote on 2023-01-03, 17:23:

This

Awesome find! I have a decent collection of MIDI equipment, but I have yet to find any internal Roland hardware in 24 years of computing and ~8 years of collecting old hardware.

Stuff is basically unobtainium for me. 😀

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 47465 of 53706, by AlessandroB

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-01-03, 17:28:
AlessandroB wrote on 2023-01-03, 17:23:

This

Excellent! 👍

Despite suggesting against getting the Roland SCC-1 card, I hope that you enjoy the genuine SC-55 sound bank without cable mess!

I found it in my country and at a price that I considered fair. It was an opportunity, I know they are very rare and you cannot miss them when you find certain types of hardware. However, I knew that if I didn't like it, I would certainly find a way to resell it.

Reply 47466 of 53706, by red_avatar

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I bought a AWE32 CT3980 for a relative low amount (€90) with 8MB of RAM + all original floppies + manual.

20230103_214623.jpg

The seller gave away an old Pentium 233 MMX for free as well along with the card. I expected some yellowed beaten up old PC but no! It's a SIEMENS PC in a rather nice case - no yellowing, almost no marks. The hardware inside looks super clean, the case is really easy to work in and there's tons of room inside as well. The motherboard also has almost no caps and they all still look fine so it seems like this hardware was built to last.

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_f84cbd4d-4fda-4b3b-b720-873f989d7b8c.jpg

Retro game fanatic.
IBM PS1 386SX25 - 4MB
IBM Aptiva 486SX33 - 8MB - 2GB CF - SB16
IBM PC350 P233MMX - 64MB - 32GB SSD - AWE64 - Voodoo2
PIII600 - 320MB - 480GB SSD - SB Live! - GF4 Ti 4200
i5-2500k - 3GB - SB Audigy 2 - HD 4870

Reply 47468 of 53706, by Radical Vision

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Much price u payed for that AWE32 (from my point of view ofc, for ebay it is ok price..), but prob is on the mid of the prices or even lesser...

That Siemens is nice, but is even more nice when u find some machine in mint condition, and there is no crap even on the paint job, but that is rare to happen, or they ask for arm and leg....

stef80 wrote on 2023-01-03, 17:18:
Not many of them are still around. It's very significant card in ATIs history and probably the reason why they got absorbed by A […]
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bestemor wrote on 2023-01-03, 16:32:

So, what's really the deal with these HD2900XT cards ?
(I am mostly familiar with Nvidia from that era, never used any ATI cards before)

If I find a cheap bunch/pair of these, should I buy them ? 😅

Not many of them are still around. It's very significant card in ATIs history and probably the reason why they got absorbed by AMD. First unified shader architecture by ATI. First incarnation of VLIW-5 architecure (followed by more successful HD3000, 4000 and 5000). It could not do AA in ROPs, so they used shaders instead ... which affected performance. It's actually surprise they managed to squeeze close to 8800GTS performance out of it. It used very complex ring bus memory controller which they cut in half with HD3000, and totaly abandoned starting with HD4000.

A clunky piece of hardware with good aesthetics that works in spite of it flaws ... I'd say. It's interesting in same way as Nvidia's FX or Fermi lineup.

I wouldnt say architecture was bad, they just messed up execution. Proof lies in HD3870 and HD4670 which had basically same architecture and specs, with some tveaks, but were way more efficient.

Seems you know much about the INfamous HD2900XT.. I know only as far, as that these cards were just bad and slower then the 8800 GTX/ Ultra (and these cards on other hand die like flies, so that being said i think from our collectors straight point Radeon HD 2900XT >>>>>> 8800 GTS/GTX/ Ultra), did not research why, and causes... But yes some times architectures are messed up, or even if they are not the final card/ product suck (like currently with Radeon 7900XT/ XTX), was similar with Pentium 4 and the FX Bulldozer, both CPUs was just BAD, weak IPC, and hot too....

Here locally i have seen mostly Radeon HD2600 Pro/XT, and only 1 2900XT that someone have stolen, and one HD 2900Pro but since the asked price was like 30 euro + the seller did lie it is XT, while i was able hardly to see the label saying Pro, + he did not know if the card works, and was not willing to even test it, so is aid fuck him, and skipped.... Seems the HD2600 series was the cards that was mostly sold/ made, while the HD 2900 was not sold as much at lest here...

About why ATi was acquired by AMD, well other ppl said that ATi was struggling againts nVIDIA, and they was going to bankrupt at some point, so they sold the company... Dont think it was die to the HD 2900 series being crap... It was mostly die to bad marketing, and some bad drivers... Also did not help that nVIDIA had outstanding marketing, and they was widely known by most people, while ATi and Radeon, many dont know them even today, all most common people that are not enthusiasts like us, know GEforce and that`s it... No matter how good did ATi and later on AMD perform for their price, they still got OUTsold like 3:1 to nVIDIA...

Mah systems retro, old, newer (Radical stuff)
W3680 4.5/ GA-x58 UD7/ R9 280x
K7 2.6/ NF7-S/ HD3850
IBM x2 P3 933/ GA-6VXD7/ Voodoo V 5.5K
Cmq P2 450/ GA-BX2000/ V2 SLI
IBM PC365
Cmq DeskPRO 486/33
IBM PS/2 Model 56
SPS IntelleXT 8088

Reply 47469 of 53706, by Ozzuneoj

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red_avatar wrote on 2023-01-03, 20:48:

I bought a AWE32 CT3980 for a relative low amount (€90) with 8MB of RAM + all original floppies + manual.

The seller gave away an old Pentium 233 MMX for free as well along with the card. I expected some yellowed beaten up old PC but no! It's a SIEMENS PC in a rather nice case - no yellowing, almost no marks. The hardware inside looks super clean, the case is really easy to work in and there's tons of room inside as well. The motherboard also has almost no caps and they all still look fine so it seems like this hardware was built to last.

Wow, that's some nice stuff! That case is beautiful! Always nice to have a surprise like that when someone tells you they have an old computer.

I find this funny actually... 90% of the time when someone tells me they have an old PC to give me, no matter how I try to get them to explain the age of the computer it always ends up being some proprietary Dell trash box with leaky caps, integrated everything and maybe an ATI X300 from the mid 2000s. And a lot of times when I get there to pick the thing up they finally say "oh man... it has to be at LEAST, oh I don't know... 20 years old? At least. I mean, I know it has Windows Vista, if that tells you anything." -_-

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 47470 of 53706, by red_avatar

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Radical Vision wrote on 2023-01-03, 21:23:

Much price u payed for that AWE32 (from my point of view ofc, for ebay it is ok price..), but prob is on the mid of the prices or even lesser...

That Siemens is nice, but is even more nice when u find some machine in mint condition, and there is no crap even on the paint job, but that is rare to happen, or they ask for arm and leg....

I have eBay and other second hand sites set to warn me when an AWE32 below a certain amount is being sold and I very rarely get any warnings. Sadly enough these cards usually go for €150+, especially with the original disks & manual (most sell just the card) - this is the first time I've seen this model being sold under €100 and it's the one I've been looking for. I already have two Sound Blaster 32's which are great but they lack wavetable headers.

Plus, the card was really only €70 but I paid €20 shipping because of the PC it came with (plus a nice keyboard and a Microsoft mouse). I think for €10 extra shipping, that PC was well worth it.

Retro game fanatic.
IBM PS1 386SX25 - 4MB
IBM Aptiva 486SX33 - 8MB - 2GB CF - SB16
IBM PC350 P233MMX - 64MB - 32GB SSD - AWE64 - Voodoo2
PIII600 - 320MB - 480GB SSD - SB Live! - GF4 Ti 4200
i5-2500k - 3GB - SB Audigy 2 - HD 4870

Reply 47471 of 53706, by red_avatar

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-01-03, 21:30:

Wow, that's some nice stuff! That case is beautiful! Always nice to have a surprise like that when someone tells you they have an old computer.

I find this funny actually... 90% of the time when someone tells me they have an old PC to give me, no matter how I try to get them to explain the age of the computer it always ends up being some proprietary Dell trash box with leaky caps, integrated everything and maybe an ATI X300 from the mid 2000s. And a lot of times when I get there to pick the thing up they finally say "oh man... it has to be at LEAST, oh I don't know... 20 years old? At least. I mean, I know it has Windows Vista, if that tells you anything." -_-

Ugh, Dell PCs are worthless. Dell is responsible for so much e-waste it's really not funny. You can't even use any of their old PCs for retro gaming because even the basic parts are garbage and you have no connectors or room for large cards not to mention they're a pain in the ass to work in.

This SIEMENS looks like a really good PC though. I generally only keep well known brands because they used solid hardware - IBM, HP, AT&T (= IBM hardware) ... and now SIEMENS. They were often used in companies because they were so reliable. This one was originally owned by Belgacom, the Belgian phone company.

Retro game fanatic.
IBM PS1 386SX25 - 4MB
IBM Aptiva 486SX33 - 8MB - 2GB CF - SB16
IBM PC350 P233MMX - 64MB - 32GB SSD - AWE64 - Voodoo2
PIII600 - 320MB - 480GB SSD - SB Live! - GF4 Ti 4200
i5-2500k - 3GB - SB Audigy 2 - HD 4870

Reply 47472 of 53706, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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stef80 wrote on 2023-01-03, 10:53:

It is still not collectible so I'm taking my chances 😀. Same for 8800 GTX ... not an easy task to find unmolested one. Lot of them were cooked in ovens.

I've never had good luck reflowing G80 based GPUs. Its just too hard to get that massive, IHS equipped die up to a high enough temp.

Cyb3rst0rms Retro Hardware Warzone: https://discord.gg/jK8uvR4c
I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 47473 of 53706, by Ensign Nemo

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-01-04, 02:39:
stef80 wrote on 2023-01-03, 10:53:

It is still not collectible so I'm taking my chances 😀. Same for 8800 GTX ... not an easy task to find unmolested one. Lot of them were cooked in ovens.

I've never had good luck reflowing G80 based GPUs. Its just too hard to get that massive, IHS equipped die up to a high enough temp.

I was in IT around 2005 and or accountants made us switch to Dell because they were convinced it would save us money. Previously, we used a local OEM seller for PCs and their parts, as well as IBM for our servers. It was such a hassle. Whenever a PC would fail, we'd have to phone Dell for support and mail the computer to Texas (we were in Canada), but only after they mailed us a box for it first. Previously, we would just swap out a part ourselves. The frustrating thing was that IBM was prepared to match Dell on the server side, but the accountants still wouldn't budge.

I remember that the Dell tech support team was really frustrating to deal with. One tech support lady kept arguing with us over the address to ship a box to us. She wouldn't believe us when we gave her our postal code because her computer screen had a different one.

Reply 47474 of 53706, by stef80

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-01-04, 02:39:
stef80 wrote on 2023-01-03, 10:53:

It is still not collectible so I'm taking my chances 😀. Same for 8800 GTX ... not an easy task to find unmolested one. Lot of them were cooked in ovens.

I've never had good luck reflowing G80 based GPUs. Its just too hard to get that massive, IHS equipped die up to a high enough temp.

Looking back I doubt G80 was the only thing to blame. There was also NVIO chip (close to DVI ports) that handled signal input/output.

Reply 47475 of 53706, by DundyTheCroc

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A friend of mine gave me some old working hardware for free.
Asus A9800XT/TVD video card, the fans are missing, but there is custom made fan with bracket that fits in the next to AGP slot.

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Compaq ESS Audio Feature Board with ES688F and Yamaha OPL-3.

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Reply 47476 of 53706, by Radical Vision

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red_avatar wrote on 2023-01-03, 21:52:
Radical Vision wrote on 2023-01-03, 21:23:

Much price u payed for that AWE32 (from my point of view ofc, for ebay it is ok price..), but prob is on the mid of the prices or even lesser...

That Siemens is nice, but is even more nice when u find some machine in mint condition, and there is no crap even on the paint job, but that is rare to happen, or they ask for arm and leg....

I have eBay and other second hand sites set to warn me when an AWE32 below a certain amount is being sold and I very rarely get any warnings. Sadly enough these cards usually go for €150+, especially with the original disks & manual (most sell just the card) - this is the first time I've seen this model being sold under €100 and it's the one I've been looking for. I already have two Sound Blaster 32's which are great but they lack wavetable headers.

Plus, the card was really only €70 but I paid €20 shipping because of the PC it came with (plus a nice keyboard and a Microsoft mouse). I think for €10 extra shipping, that PC was well worth it.

Well yes AWE32 is way too expensive... And i am not sure if ur model was the very high end, since i mistake these Creative numbering and shit all the time.. But if i recall correctly the lower then number the higher end the model... So i was looking mostly for CT3990, but ur is 38xx, so it should be one of the higher end models, or even the top one... Well maybe you can use that PC u got with the card to sell the parts if they are crap, and make ur card for free, at least this is what i do all the time... I try to get at least 2-3 parts, 1 that i need and rest to return the investment. It is the best way, unless the whole PC/ parts are some high end/ exotic stuff, but that never happens...

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-01-04, 02:39:
stef80 wrote on 2023-01-03, 10:53:

It is still not collectible so I'm taking my chances 😀. Same for 8800 GTX ... not an easy task to find unmolested one. Lot of them were cooked in ovens.

I've never had good luck reflowing G80 based GPUs. Its just too hard to get that massive, IHS equipped die up to a high enough temp.

What did you try so far ? I did resurrect hard crashing Radeon R9 280x, that i bought only for the fans, to fix my own R9 280x, that did came with broken fans (the usual crap), then i found only a cooler, and decided to give a try... Cooking that card with heat gun for 5 minutes 350c, proved not to be of any good fixed a tiny bit.. Then i decided to go alot more, so i went 12 minutes 350c, that fixed the card on 95%... Then did had random artifacting in games and crashing some times, but after few game running the card did fix itself, and now is working...

Maybe if u are using heat gun try to increase the time, or for the same time u did try, increase the temperature... That should help...

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2023-01-04, 03:21:
TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-01-04, 02:39:
stef80 wrote on 2023-01-03, 10:53:

It is still not collectible so I'm taking my chances 😀. Same for 8800 GTX ... not an easy task to find unmolested one. Lot of them were cooked in ovens.

I've never had good luck reflowing G80 based GPUs. Its just too hard to get that massive, IHS equipped die up to a high enough temp.

I was in IT around 2005 and or accountants made us switch to Dell because they were convinced it would save us money. Previously, we used a local OEM seller for PCs and their parts, as well as IBM for our servers. It was such a hassle. Whenever a PC would fail, we'd have to phone Dell for support and mail the computer to Texas (we were in Canada), but only after they mailed us a box for it first. Previously, we would just swap out a part ourselves. The frustrating thing was that IBM was prepared to match Dell on the server side, but the accountants still wouldn't budge.

I remember that the Dell tech support team was really frustrating to deal with. One tech support lady kept arguing with us over the address to ship a box to us. She wouldn't believe us when we gave her our postal code because her computer screen had a different one.

DELL are garbage company, and products too... They was one of the main partners with the Intel scam, "dont use AMD CPUs, we will give u money".. Also i never liked their designs and stuff, compared to DELL Compaq and IBM are leagues above... Sure DELL had some build quality with Japan caps and stuff, but they are shit, from what i ahve saw... DELL is the only brand i know using plastic only as panel on their PCs 🤣...

Mah systems retro, old, newer (Radical stuff)
W3680 4.5/ GA-x58 UD7/ R9 280x
K7 2.6/ NF7-S/ HD3850
IBM x2 P3 933/ GA-6VXD7/ Voodoo V 5.5K
Cmq P2 450/ GA-BX2000/ V2 SLI
IBM PC365
Cmq DeskPRO 486/33
IBM PS/2 Model 56
SPS IntelleXT 8088

Reply 47477 of 53706, by RandomStranger

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Radical Vision wrote on 2023-01-03, 21:23:

About why ATi was acquired by AMD, well other ppl said that ATi was struggling againts nVIDIA, and they was going to bankrupt at some point, so they sold the company... Dont think it was die to the HD 2900 series being crap... It was mostly die to bad marketing, and some bad drivers... Also did not help that nVIDIA had outstanding marketing, and they was widely known by most people, while ATi and Radeon, many dont know them even today, all most common people that are not enthusiasts like us, know GEforce and that`s it... No matter how good did ATi and later on AMD perform for their price, they still got OUTsold like 3:1 to nVIDIA...

I don't remember ATI struggling against Nvidia around the time AMD bought them. Since the R100 they were very competitive and since the R300 they were ahead. I remember them being neck and neck when it came to market share around 2005 and AMD buying ATI was already decided by the time the R600/HD2900 was announced. Though I also remember development went slowly and it was delayed many times. It's only after the G80's release completely unchallenged for a year that Nvidia pulled far ahead in their market share.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 47478 of 53706, by Radical Vision

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stef80 wrote on 2023-01-03, 17:18:

Not many of them are still around. It's very significant card (HD2900) in ATIs history and probably the reason why they got absorbed by AMD. First unified shader architecture by ATI.

I wouldnt say architecture was bad, they just messed up execution. Proof lies in HD3870 and HD4670 which had basically same architecture and specs, with some tveaks, but were way more efficient.

Well he said that, not me... But i think ATi was OUTsold by nVIDIA all the time, no matter the generation... nVIDIA just had outstanding marketing, and brand recognition,w hile ATi was the exact opposite, not that they were bad, they just did not had the mind share i think... I also think ATi sold the company, since they were thinking they cant compete with nVIDIA in the long term, or jsut the deal for 5 billion dollars was very appealing to them.

Yes i know that too, before the GEforce 8 and specially 8800 cards, ATi was better then nVIDIA most of the times, after pre Radeon cards such as Rage, when they got the Radeon branding their cards was very competitive, and later on even alot faster... The Radeon x1800XTX and later on x1950XTX was better then GEforce 6 and 7 series cards, but then nVIDIA pulled out the insanely OP 8800 GT/X and crushed what ATi had... It is really sad to me too, that ATi/AMD went from 50:50 market share vs nVIDIA to this BS today where nVIDIA hold 80%+ market share and like 150% mind share, and AMD holds what some miserable shitty 20%... These RDNA III buggy cards with inconsistent preformance, and even broken cooler, wont help at all with that....

Too bad ATi never went on the road as nVIDIA did in terms of brand recognition, marketing and visual BS such as Tessellation, PhysX and Game Works... But at least AMD is back on the CPU side, and is not only Intel, like used to be after Phenom II... Nowadays is like back with Athlon64 days, when Intel was worse, and AMD was better, now is similar... But Intel was ezz to be beaten, since Intel did beat themselves, being lazy and lying on old glory of the Core architecture... While no matter i dont like both Intel and nVIDIA as a companies, nVIDIA is not as dumb as Intel, they wont stop innovating, and they pull every time some strong cards... So for AMD to get on the same level vs nVIDIA will be ALOT harder, then vs Intel.. Since Intel did nothing, they expected the new ZEN processors to be another FX FAILdozer, and they did not prepare... While nVIDIA always has something up their sleeve, no matter i hate them so much, as a company, marketing and architectures they are very strong...

Also bad Intel will abandon the discrete GPU market, i hear rumors that after Battlemage, there wont be more discrete cards, since it is costing too much, and they dont make profit from it.... I wonder why 3Dfx wont make an return, since 20 years have passed, and now they can buy back from nVIDIA their assets, or they can use them too, since there is some years in the agreement, when they got purchased...

Mah systems retro, old, newer (Radical stuff)
W3680 4.5/ GA-x58 UD7/ R9 280x
K7 2.6/ NF7-S/ HD3850
IBM x2 P3 933/ GA-6VXD7/ Voodoo V 5.5K
Cmq P2 450/ GA-BX2000/ V2 SLI
IBM PC365
Cmq DeskPRO 486/33
IBM PS/2 Model 56
SPS IntelleXT 8088

Reply 47479 of 53706, by stef80

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Well, R600 was a huge mess and AMD overpaid. I doubt they would have offered 5b if this was known earlier. And yes, ATI went for the money. Would they have sold out if R600 was a success?
At that time they were lagging on many fronts:
* late with practical CF implementation (remember CrossFire edition cards and Y cables?), that was resolved relatively late with X1950Pro
* late with GPGPU functionality
* late with DX10
* buggy chipsets (and Nvidia just snatched ULi which could have been used instead of problematic ATI's southbridges)