@Deksor: did you get your hands on the miniPCIe->PCIe and PCIe->PCI adapters yet? Very curious to see the results of that!

I received them a while ago, but I still have to build the motivation to try it 😅
I'm curious too. The bridge chip I have is apparently kinda crap, but hopefully "crappy" is enough to bridge a crappy CPU with a crappy GPU 😁

Deksor wrote on 2023-01-03, 01:35:

I received them a while ago, but I still have to build the motivation to try it 😅
I'm curious too. The bridge chip I have is apparently kinda crap, but hopefully "crappy" is enough to bridge a crappy CPU with a crappy GPU 😁

Hey hey, don't crap on the Vortex CPU, it's super capable for a DOS machine! 😁
So, which bridge chip does your adapter use? I've mostly seen Pericom PI7C9X11x chips being used, but I've never found any open source schematics or build guides for these.

Jarrad wrote on 2022-12-29, 19:43:

Nice work on the Rev 2.1 Eivind, it’s looking great […]
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Nice work on the Rev 2.1 Eivind, it’s looking great

I was experimenting with the D1 Mini with via serial port on the Rev 1.1 before Xmas, didn’t quite get it up and running as a modem, but did get communication flowing from TinyLlama to my Pc and back - can’t wait to get my hands on a rev 2.1!

On the convo re gfx cards, I stumbled across this SM750 version that is much cheaper than the vertex86vga, I ordered one before Xmas to try: https://secure.chamsys.co.uk/shop/index.php?r … &product_id=155 (£17.50 inc shipping all the way to New Zealand), apparently it’s just landed in the country today, so may get my grubby hands on it sometime next week

Was finally able to complete my unit before Xmas with my RPi Zero’s arriving - have to say a massive thanks again Eivind, this device has been the highlight of our holidays, my sons are slowly making their way through “The Incredible Machine”, just like I did as a kid, with the added bonus of the MT32-pi

Have you received anything yet?

I have no update on my order, but i guess thats due to new years 😉

Eivind wrote on 2023-01-03, 06:19:

Deksor wrote on 2023-01-03, 01:35:

I received them a while ago, but I still have to build the motivation to try it 😅
I'm curious too. The bridge chip I have is apparently kinda crap, but hopefully "crappy" is enough to bridge a crappy CPU with a crappy GPU 😁

Hey hey, don't crap on the Vortex CPU, it's super capable for a DOS machine! 😁
So, which bridge chip does your adapter use? I've mostly seen Pericom PI7C9X11x chips being used, but I've never found any open source schematics or build guides for these.

Yes just like the fx5200 is pretty good for dos and win9x 😁
The chip is the asm1083

Deksor wrote on 2023-01-03, 15:32:

Yes just like the fx5200 is pretty good for dos and win9x 😁
The chip is the asm1083

Alright, let me know how the asm1083 plays out - I've ordered a PI7C9X118-based adapter myself... 🤞

tabm0de wrote on 2023-01-03, 09:52:

Have you received anything yet?

I have no update on my order, but i guess thats due to new years 😉

They were a bit slow to dispatch mine (about a week from ordering), but where I live I’m use to packages taking 1-2 months to arrive… (mine was dispatched on 9th dec, been sitting in the country since 29th dec 🤣)

Jarrad wrote on 2023-01-04, 19:05:

tabm0de wrote on 2023-01-03, 09:52:

Have you received anything yet?

I have no update on my order, but i guess thats due to new years 😉

They were a bit slow to dispatch mine (about a week from ordering), but where I live I’m use to packages taking 1-2 months to arrive… (mine was dispatched on 9th dec, been sitting in the country since 29th dec 🤣)

Ye that will take some time then i guess due to new year 😉

At least your is in destination country 😀 feel free to give update , as if it works better or same it’s still cheaper 😀 not to anger anyone I’m at least happy I purchased 5 before they went out of stock 😉

Tried a RTX3080, heh. Looks hilarious next to the vortex86EX 😀

Here's the updated chart :

1            PCIE Vortex86VGA    PCIE Quadro FX1700    PCI Virge DX    PCIE RTX 3080
2DOS DOOM                27.0                  60.6            57.1             60.1
3DOS Quake               27.3                  32.8            32.7             32.8

rasteri wrote on 2023-01-07, 17:12:

Tried a GTX3080 lol. […]
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Tried a GTX3080 🤣.

Here's the updated chart :

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1            PCIE Vortex86VGA    PCIE Quadro FX1700    PCI Virge DX    PCIE GTX 3080
2DOS DOOM                27.0                  60.6            57.1             60.1
3DOS Quake               27.3                  32.8            32.7             32.8

That's what I call good value! 🤪
Remind me again, what's your setup for these tests? Mini-PCIe-to-PCIe (1x) adapter for the PCIe cards? For the PCI Virge DX, which PCIe-to-PCI adapter did you use?

My SM750 arrived just as I was testing the RTX!

It's the new winner in both benchmarks! Looks like a great option.

1            PCIE Vortex86VGA    PCIE Quadro FX1700    PCI Virge DX    PCIE GTX 3080    PCIE SM750
2DOS DOOM                27.0                  60.6            57.1             60.1          62.9
3DOS Quake               27.3                  32.8            32.7             32.8          32.9

Eivind wrote on 2023-01-07, 17:16:

Remind me again, what's your setup for these tests? Mini-PCIe-to-PCIe (1x) adapter for the PCIe cards?

yup!

For the PCI Virge DX, which PCIe-to-PCI adapter did you use?

It's a dual-slot unit, based on the ASM1083. Got it here - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000386897167 … .1f221802V9OSuM

rasteri wrote on 2023-01-07, 17:28:

My SM750 arrived just as I was testing the RTX! […]
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My SM750 arrived just as I was testing the RTX!

It's the new winner in both benchmarks! Looks like a great option.

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1            PCIE Vortex86VGA    PCIE Quadro FX1700    PCI Virge DX    PCIE GTX 3080    PCIE SM750
2DOS DOOM                27.0                  60.6            57.1             60.1          62.9
3DOS Quake               27.3                  32.8            32.7             32.8          32.9

Eivind wrote on 2023-01-07, 17:16:

Remind me again, what's your setup for these tests? Mini-PCIe-to-PCIe (1x) adapter for the PCIe cards?

yup!

For the PCI Virge DX, which PCIe-to-PCI adapter did you use?

It's a dual-slot unit, based on the ASM1083. Got it here - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000386897167 … .1f221802V9OSuM

Thanks!

I'll soon be able to test these setups myself (adapters on the way), but I'm still curious about a couple of things, if you're willing to do some more testing:
1. Did you try any sort of 3d acceleration? Dunno if the FX 1700 or 3080 supports that in DOS? But the Virge DX does, right? S3D API or something?
2. What about higher resolutions? The Vortex86VGA is slower than molasses in 640x480, what about those other ones?

Eivind wrote on 2023-01-07, 17:40:

1. Did you try any sort of 3d acceleration? Dunno if the FX 1700 or 3080 supports that in DOS? But the Virge DX does, right? S3D API or something?

Nah the PCIE cards don't have DOS 3D support. I did try an OG Voodoo but the processor is too fast for it, even at 200MHz (not an uncommon problem for the Voodoo). I bet a Voodoo 2 or Banshee would work though (I own neither).

The virge really sucks at 3D (it often made games worse rather than better, heh) so I didn't bother trying it but I may at some point in the future 😀

2. What about higher resolutions? The Vortex86VGA is slower than molasses in 640x480, what about those other ones?

Quake gets single digit FPS at 640x480 no matter what card you use. I didn't think it was worth comparing between them, it'll be a processor bottleneck rather than a graphics one.

rasteri wrote on 2023-01-07, 17:50:

Quake gets single digit FPS at 640x480 no matter what card you use. I didn't think it was worth comparing between them, it'll be a processor bottleneck rather than a graphics one.

Hmm, I assumed the 640x480 resolution was somehow held back by the slow Vortex86VGA, even with software rendering. Interesting! Eager to try out the PI7C9X11x-based adapter I'll be getting my hands on on Monday (that is, if I can get to the post office, there's a little snow-and-ice situation going on here atm) - and see what a better PCI GPU can do.

@Eivind

I think a GeforceFX might be a good choice to go with for the 8-bit palette textures and table fog support, assuming it works (although I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't)

Finished making a case for my board. Posted the files here https://www.printables.com/model/362273-tiny-llama-x86-case if anyone wants to modify it or print. Huge learning curve figuring out 3D printing and cad but it was a fun journey. I can just play SimCity 2000 for hours on this thing. It sounds great with MT-32 music. Also some Star Wars : Dark Forces for good fun as well. Both serial mice I tried worked out of the box. I think the biggest thing needed is some sort of joystick or gamepad emulation or translation to be perfect. But overall it does everything very well and is an awesome little machine.

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-01-07, 23:35:

Finished making a case for my board. Posted the files here https://www.printables.com/model/362273-tiny-llama-x86-case if anyone wants to modify it or print. Huge learning curve figuring out 3D printing and cad but it was a fun journey. I can just play SimCity 2000 for hours on this thing. It sounds great with MT-32 music. Also some Star Wars : Dark Forces for good fun as well. Both serial mice I tried worked out of the box. I think the biggest thing needed is some sort of joystick or gamepad emulation or translation to be perfect. But overall it does everything very well and is an awesome little machine.

👍👍👍
Fantastic!
I'm actually picking up a couple of rolls of the Jessie filaments from the post office on Monday (got an American colleague to ship it for me), hoping to make such a nice case as yours! 😁

Eivind wrote on 2023-01-07, 23:40:

👍👍👍 Fantastic! I'm actually picking up a couple of rolls of the Jessie filaments from the post office on Monday (got an American […]
Show full quote

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-01-07, 23:35:

Finished making a case for my board. Posted the files here https://www.printables.com/model/362273-tiny-llama-x86-case if anyone wants to modify it or print. Huge learning curve figuring out 3D printing and cad but it was a fun journey. I can just play SimCity 2000 for hours on this thing. It sounds great with MT-32 music. Also some Star Wars : Dark Forces for good fun as well. Both serial mice I tried worked out of the box. I think the biggest thing needed is some sort of joystick or gamepad emulation or translation to be perfect. But overall it does everything very well and is an awesome little machine.

👍👍👍
Fantastic!
I'm actually picking up a couple of rolls of the Jessie filaments from the post office on Monday (got an American colleague to ship it for me), hoping to make such a nice case as yours! 😁

Oo no you didnt, if you have to many to use I be here to buy one haha

Aaron707 wrote on 2023-01-07, 23:35:

Finished making a case for my board. Posted the files here https://www.printables.com/model/362273-tiny-llama-x86-case if anyone wants to modify it or print. Huge learning curve figuring out 3D printing and cad but it was a fun journey. I can just play SimCity 2000 for hours on this thing. It sounds great with MT-32 music. Also some Star Wars : Dark Forces for good fun as well. Both serial mice I tried worked out of the box. I think the biggest thing needed is some sort of joystick or gamepad emulation or translation to be perfect. But overall it does everything very well and is an awesome little machine.

Nice setup 😀

Hey just as I got the motivation, I also benchmarked a PCIe video card.
I'm not quite sure what it is, it's just a very cheap card I pulled from a box (actually I think it's a GeForce 6200)

Quake perform doom performs at 49.3fps (I think it's 486quake I left there) and doom (the original) performs much better at 60.3fps

I've also tried an anti X300 which performed slightly worse
Now I've also tested a few pci video cards using the PCIe to pci bridge and it worked flawlessly, except for one card, the fx5500 I have, which for some reason didn't want to work.

As for the pci cards I'm even more satisfied by them.
A cheap S3 trio 64 was probably the best for dos, as not only it still performed great (slightly worse than the pcie cards, doom ran at 55-ish FPS but compared to the previous 27 that's a great improvement) but also compatibility was much improved.

I could run the game toonstruck without any visual issues or hangs.

I also tried an ati rage 128 and a matrox g450 max pci. These were ok, but toonstruck hanged with these cards for some reason.
None of the PCIe cards could play toonstruck right by comparison.

To me the S3 is the winner of the non-3d accelerated video chips
Edit :
I fixed my pci et4000/32 and it's even better 😀