i'm only fixing special stuff. non desirable stuff im eventually scrapping or trying to sell, then scrapping if i cant get rid of. something like a 6600 i wouldn't even bother with, whne people cant even get rid of 6800s no offense.

For me the maintenance and repair side of things is a big draw of vintage electronics gear. There is something immensely satisfying about taking something broken, diagnosing it, repairing it, and giving it a new lease on life.

It also builds a useful skillset that can apply outside of just repairing old computers.

In terms of hardware longevity, I'm under no allusions that this stuff will last forever. Everything has a shelf life, especially electronics. Brittle plastics are probably my biggest concern, since when plastics start to degrade there isn't much you can do about it.

In the case of failed electronics, I tend to hang onto them anyway either for donor components to use in other repairs, or in the off chance I can replace a failed component and make it work again.

Thanks for starting this thread. I hear you. I have actually been collecting for a similar amount of time, 7-8ish years. At first, I did not want to admit that it was a "collection". I don't have nearly triple digits number of computers, but I've got way more retro gear than I can realistically maintain, and that feels very wrong.

Another American here so I can only offer similar perspective I suppose, but yes, components are becoming either more rare or more expensive, and there's a lot of artificial inflation of prices originating from YouTubers or what-have-you. You are correct that if you plan to remain in this sort of hobby for any length of time that you'll absolutely need to have some level of electronics repair skill. You may also need to start keeping certain components on-hand (wetlytic caps) or start finding in-production replacements (polymers, for example). Alternatively, you suck it up and pay the market rate when stuff breaks. I really consider myself fortunate that getting into this older hardware gave me real motivation to learn to do these sorts of repairs. I use those skills elsewhere all the time now.

Personally, as to the ultimate outcome for the hardware I've amassed now? I think the nostalgia bug hit real hard in my late 30's, and now it is starting to pass and be fully realized/fulfilled several years later. I never made decisions about retro purchases thinking that I'd somehow make a profit, for sure - so I think that I'm going to redistribute at least some of this stuff locally, in hopes that it will all live on, you know, forever (in my head, probably, but..). I think, too, that emulation (in many forms - high level (DOSBox), low level (86Box), FPGA) will be my personally preferred way to enjoy these systems and software perhaps without the initial fights and ongoing TLC that the real McCoys will need. Does that mean I look down upon those that do keep old hardware alive and well? Quite the opposite - I respect it. This is just some internal reflection that has been kicking around in my head for the last several weeks as I begin to really wonder about the feasibility of..well, exactly the things you point out in your post.

The biggest issue I see in the future isn't caps and whatnot , that stuff is all repairable , but the custom asics that gives the device its special sauce.

I've seen that the amiga and the commodore64 communities are going through this , going as so far to make fpga drop in replacements of things like the sid chip.

But at that point if you replace everything with fpgas is it even the original system anymore? Maybe at that point you'd just be better off using a mister to simulate the whole system vs 1 chip.

This is especially an issue for anything that's rare and hasn't been reverse engineered ie an nvidia NV1 gpu.

Worse yet what if something common like the opl3 becomes scarce at some point do newcomers have to adjust their builds to meet feasibility.

Will everyone have to settle for cheap sb pro clones (yes I know some of them are better than creative ones) and sacrifice compatibility just to even have a working rig. Thus pushing more users out of the hobby because they're frustrated that even basic sound cards are too overpriced and they need to settle for low end compatibility sketchy builds because it all costs too much.

So as the supply of chips dry up , and prices sky-rocket, at what point does the hobby become unsustainable.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

But at that point if you replace everything with fpgas is it even the original system anymore?

If a replacement FPGA is functionally identical to the original chip it's replacing, this honestly shouldn't matter if the primary intent is to use the hardware as a functional device.

IMHO, this is where the intended use of the hardware by the individual is a factor.

Is the intent to just collect original hardware for the sake of having something original? Or is the intent to use that hardware and do something with it?

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-01-13, 05:01:

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

But at that point if you replace everything with fpgas is it even the original system anymore?

If a replacement FPGA is functionally identical to the original chip it's replacing, this honestly shouldn't matter if the primary intent is to use the hardware as a functional device.

IMHO, this is where the intent of the hardware itself is a factor.

Sure but why not either use a mister when it can do many systems in one or move to software emulation wholesale , would save people alot of money in the long run.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 05:04:

Sure but why not either use a mister when it can do many systems in one or move to software emulation wholesale , would save people alot of money in the long run.

From the perspective of interaction with the system, there is still a physical difference in using 'original' hardware versus emulating an entire system.

Therefore it would come down to the type of experience one desires with that system.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

I've seen that the amiga and the commodore64 communities are going through this , going as so far to make fpga drop in replacements of things like the sid chip.

But at that point if you replace everything with fpgas is it even the original system anymore?

"quest for the fakest Commodore 64 possible!" http://dusted.dk/pages/c64/MaxFake64/

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

Will everyone have to settle for cheap sb pro clones (yes I know some of them are better than creative ones) and sacrifice compatibility just to even have a working rig.

Really bad example. You are sacrificing compatibility and quality when picking original Sound Blasters 😀 Creative was terribly cheap and careless up until they purchased Ensoniq.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

Thus pushing more users out of the hobby because they're frustrated that even basic sound cards are too overpriced and they need to settle for low end compatibility sketchy builds because it all costs too much.

"low end compatibility sketchy" is how I would call almost all SB16 😀 plus glitchy, noisy, broken and unreasonably expensive when new.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-01-13, 05:43:

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 05:04:

Sure but why not either use a mister when it can do many systems in one or move to software emulation wholesale , would save people alot of money in the long run.

From the perspective of interaction with the system, there is still a physical difference in using 'original' hardware versus emulating an entire system.

Therefore it would come down to the type of experience one desires with that system.

You do have a point about intent , my personal preference usually tends to be im okay with fpgas acting as replacements for supporting glue logic chips but the main important chips ie 3dfx FBI or ics1614 for the gravis or the la32 synthesis chip for mt32 need to be the original. Which is why I'm okay with reproductions provided they contain the original chips that made the magic work ie cmslpt , tndylpt with the SA1099 and SN76489AN respectively.

I guess this might have to do with me being fascinated with the engineering and design wizardry involved that lent to the technical capabilities of those chips in its historical setting that made the hardware able to pull off the crazy feats it did.

Still I'm not against fpgs I just tend to like to hold the historical peices of hardware in my hand.
Better yet seeing it all still tick after decades of existence is pretty wonderful.

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-01-13, 05:58:

"quest for the fakest Commodore 64 possible!" http://dusted.dk/pages/c64/MaxFake64/ […]
Show full quote

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

I've seen that the amiga and the commodore64 communities are going through this , going as so far to make fpga drop in replacements of things like the sid chip.

But at that point if you replace everything with fpgas is it even the original system anymore?

"quest for the fakest Commodore 64 possible!" http://dusted.dk/pages/c64/MaxFake64/

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

Will everyone have to settle for cheap sb pro clones (yes I know some of them are better than creative ones) and sacrifice compatibility just to even have a working rig.

Really bad example. You are sacrificing compatibility and quality when picking original Sound Blasters 😀 Creative was terribly cheap and careless up until they purchased Ensoniq.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 04:51:

Thus pushing more users out of the hobby because they're frustrated that even basic sound cards are too overpriced and they need to settle for low end compatibility sketchy builds because it all costs too much.

"low end compatibility sketchy" is how I would call almost all SB16 😀 plus glitchy, noisy, broken and unreasonably expensive when new.

Yeah it would have been better if adlib or mediavision won out in the end tbh , creative were a bunch of hack frauds , though the soundblaster was the standard at the time.
Okay maybe I shouldn't have used creative as an example but what if say all the desirable clones shot up in price because people knew they were good and only the crappy ones were left?
That either had issues with certain games or sounded dreadful.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 06:19:

Okay maybe I shouldn't have used creative as an example but what if say all the desirable clones shot up in price because people knew they were good and only the crappy ones were left?
That either had issues with certain games or sounded dreadful.

we are ~couple months from someone picking apart PicoGUS and implementing full SB on it, ~$10 bom for hardware capable of perfectly replicating every ISA SB ever released.

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-01-13, 06:24:

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-01-13, 06:19:

Okay maybe I shouldn't have used creative as an example but what if say all the desirable clones shot up in price because people knew they were good and only the crappy ones were left?
That either had issues with certain games or sounded dreadful.

we are ~couple months from someone picking apart PicoGUS and implementing full SB on it, ~$10 bom for hardware capable of perfectly replicating every ISA SB ever released.

I guess from what I see from this thread consensus wise does seem to point to simulating the original hardware.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing , its led to this retro revival aftermarket , maybe people will be able to soup up the simulations to make it do stuff that the originals never could ,
and people could make new software for those simulated bits of hardware.

I guess alot of amiga accelerators already do that. Purists can simply run things on default settings if they desire the "OG" experience.

Still its a shame the original stuff that made the waves wayback when does have to bite the dust at some point , I guess nothing lasts forever.
As for my stuff ill keep it chugging as long as possible , if anything super critical dies like my G420 CRT or my SLI voodoo 2s or my original Roland MPU 401 ill probably sell off my stuff to fund some new upgrade parts for my modern pc and maybe scootch on over to getting a mister or something instead.

Its getting pretty nightmarish thinking about hardware failure since I've got some pretty nice and pretty pricey peices of kit.