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Gatekeeping in the retro hobby

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Reply 61 of 114, by WolverineDK

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To be perfectly honest, I still stand by what I wrote. But I stopped watching the video, cause she gave me a vibe of something I moved away from. For almost 7 years ago, which was extremism to a degree that I do NOT like. Sadly I first realised how extreme I had been, when my mother died. And I took quite a few steps back, and sat down. And began enjoying life more, of what it had to offer. Than just narrowing my mind in the extreme area, I was a part of. The only positive thing I can say, is this when it comes me being extreme. Was when I stepped away, then I only took my core values, but in a NON extreme way with me. To the place I am now, when it comes being who I am mentally. And I am much much more happy now, than when I was extreme.

Reply 62 of 114, by The Serpent Rider

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I won't be surprised if that whole thing from that video, which is a comment on another video btw, is overblown out of proportion because it's missing certain context.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 63 of 114, by rmay635703

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My experience is most Gatekeeping takes place when certain folks encounter certain other folks that buy rare expensive antiques to tear apart for key caps or to make motherboards into wall clocks.

I’ve thrown out and recycled truckloads of semi rare hardware (oops) but I do get why people would like to preserve history which includes the software.

Lol
https://twitter.com/rgt_85/status/15263733986 … 1718017?lang=en

I don’t entirely agree with his value assessment,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZN5ct_UJQo

once “hobby” things get old enough that primarily have nostalgia value the value will eventually drop except items of historical interest or extreme rarity. So it is very possible for a drop in value as those who grow up with it die.

Heck a lot of Atari 2600 stuff has gotten cheaper from its peak, a lot of less desirable nes carts have gone down in value from say the late 90’s. (I still pick up certain titles for 3-$5 )

Many Hobby Things that were popular in the 30’s/40’s as an example have dropped exponentially, like model trains.

Garrett W wrote on 2023-01-19, 15:47:

Isn't this channel part of that conservative couple that posted a crying video about someone suing/ copyright trolling them over the usage of a picture used in one of their prior videos when in reality they refused to pay roughly 100$,

Crying video check,
Amount? Don’t care.
Conservative, I don’t pay enough attention to know what they are.
Blurry 3 second video of a photo who’s rights were owned by a magazine (mags policy is to remove artist rights), used by a pair of basement dwellers in an unpopular video that likely made $100 profit ?
Followed up by a guy who makes a living trolling everyone from 8 year old children to a library 📚 on questionable pretenses claiming his “IP” that was licensed once 30 years ago is worth immense amounts of money and suffered immense losses of value?

That whole thing is a good example of why the US is better (at least in this one case at the moment )
because every aspect from the perceived value of the original image to the value of a blurry 3 second representation in a low budget video would all get thrown out if brought to court and the copyright holder would likely not only get nothing but also share the court costs
with the verdict being a simple takedown request on the video.

Very sad the us has been moving towards Europes version of nothing is fair use and no infraction is too small even if the profit from said use is minimal or even negative.

I have no sympathy for the majority of copyright trolls due to the number of holding companies that exist for the sole purpose of suing.

Modifications of the current draconian IP law would be a benefit to most.

Their reaction video to a lawsuit isn’t the problem, the tipping culture that is bleeding hearts that enables that type of content to have a platform and work is the problem.

Don’t blame the player for playing, if you don’t like prostitution don’t pay for one.

Last edited by rmay635703 on 2023-01-20, 01:00. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 64 of 114, by Errius

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WolverineDK wrote on 2023-01-19, 22:31:

To be perfectly honest, I still stand by what I wrote. But I stopped watching the video, cause she gave me a vibe of something I moved away from. For almost 7 years ago, which was extremism to a degree that I do NOT like. Sadly I first realised how extreme I had been, when my mother died. And I took quite a few steps back, and sat down. And began enjoying life more, of what it had to offer. Than just narrowing my mind in the extreme area, I was a part of. The only positive thing I can say, is this when it comes me being extreme. Was when I stepped away, then I only took my core values, but in a NON extreme way with me. To the place I am now, when it comes being who I am mentally. And I am much much more happy now, than when I was extreme.

http://hackles.org/cgi-bin/archives.pl?request=52

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 66 of 114, by WolverineDK

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Errius wrote on 2023-01-20, 00:58:
WolverineDK wrote on 2023-01-19, 22:31:

To be perfectly honest, I still stand by what I wrote. But I stopped watching the video, cause she gave me a vibe of something I moved away from. For almost 7 years ago, which was extremism to a degree that I do NOT like. Sadly I first realised how extreme I had been, when my mother died. And I took quite a few steps back, and sat down. And began enjoying life more, of what it had to offer. Than just narrowing my mind in the extreme area, I was a part of. The only positive thing I can say, is this when it comes me being extreme. Was when I stepped away, then I only took my core values, but in a NON extreme way with me. To the place I am now, when it comes being who I am mentally. And I am much much more happy now, than when I was extreme.

http://hackles.org/cgi-bin/archives.pl?request=52

That comic made me smile 😀

Reply 67 of 114, by Anders-

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Mandrew wrote on 2023-01-19, 16:14:
Anders- wrote on 2023-01-19, 00:45:

Of course there's gatekeeping, it comes in the form of hoarding and monopolizing of various retro sources, one can observe it on this forum.
A small amount of people keeping big collections of old gear is exactly what keeps it out of the hands of folks looking to get into the retro world.

There are literally millions upon millions of hardware and sources available for excellent prices and people still complain that this hobby is overtaken by hoarders and scalpers. It's sooo old. Aside from a few niché items this hobby is cheap and sources are vast. You want an expensive and difficult hobby? Try classic car restoration.

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

Måttfull och balanserad.

Reply 68 of 114, by BetaC

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Anders- wrote on 2023-01-20, 07:53:
I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years. For me, the prices these da […]
Show full quote
Mandrew wrote on 2023-01-19, 16:14:
Anders- wrote on 2023-01-19, 00:45:

Of course there's gatekeeping, it comes in the form of hoarding and monopolizing of various retro sources, one can observe it on this forum.
A small amount of people keeping big collections of old gear is exactly what keeps it out of the hands of folks looking to get into the retro world.

There are literally millions upon millions of hardware and sources available for excellent prices and people still complain that this hobby is overtaken by hoarders and scalpers. It's sooo old. Aside from a few niché items this hobby is cheap and sources are vast. You want an expensive and difficult hobby? Try classic car restoration.

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

There's also the problem with what ends up being recycled on average. Lotsa Dell boxes with late p4 or generic C2D nowadays, instead of the now-interesting 90s hardware.

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Reply 69 of 114, by RandomStranger

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Anders- wrote on 2023-01-20, 07:53:
I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years. For me, the prices these da […]
Show full quote
Mandrew wrote on 2023-01-19, 16:14:
Anders- wrote on 2023-01-19, 00:45:

Of course there's gatekeeping, it comes in the form of hoarding and monopolizing of various retro sources, one can observe it on this forum.
A small amount of people keeping big collections of old gear is exactly what keeps it out of the hands of folks looking to get into the retro world.

There are literally millions upon millions of hardware and sources available for excellent prices and people still complain that this hobby is overtaken by hoarders and scalpers. It's sooo old. Aside from a few niché items this hobby is cheap and sources are vast. You want an expensive and difficult hobby? Try classic car restoration.

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

I don't see it that way. Super desirable collectible parts are expensive and ebay prices are generally high, but if you just want to get into the hobby, you won't have problem building a decently specced PC on the cheap. I mean something like sub-50€. A 386 or 486 PC would be pushing it, you maybe have to go as high as 60 or 70€, but it's still only one full-price game today, not to mention the PC to run it on, so modern gaming is infinitely more expensive.

Now if you want to advance in the hobby and build that fully period correct 90s dream PC you never had, that will cost you, but how many of us started out like that? For the most part the barrier for entry is basically a prebuilt office PC with some upgrades, like a generic Optiplex or Deskpro with a Celeron-A, ES1686F and TNT2-M64 and you already cover a good chunk of the 90s with high compatibility and decent performance for pocket change.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 70 of 114, by Anders-

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RandomStranger wrote on 2023-01-20, 08:25:
Anders- wrote on 2023-01-20, 07:53:
I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years. For me, the prices these da […]
Show full quote
Mandrew wrote on 2023-01-19, 16:14:

There are literally millions upon millions of hardware and sources available for excellent prices and people still complain that this hobby is overtaken by hoarders and scalpers. It's sooo old. Aside from a few niché items this hobby is cheap and sources are vast. You want an expensive and difficult hobby? Try classic car restoration.

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

I don't see it that way. Super desirable collectible parts are expensive and ebay prices are generally high, but if you just want to get into the hobby, you won't have problem building a decently specced PC on the cheap. I mean something like sub-50€. A 386 or 486 PC would be pushing it, you maybe have to go as high as 60 or 70€, but it's still only one full-price game today, not to mention the PC to run it on, so modern gaming is infinitely more expensive.

Now if you want to advance in the hobby and build that fully period correct 90s dream PC you never had, that will cost you, but how many of us started out like that? For the most part the barrier for entry is basically a prebuilt office PC with some upgrades, like a generic Optiplex or Deskpro with a Celeron-A, ES1686F and TNT2-M64 and you already cover a good chunk of the 90s with high compatibility and decent performance for pocket change.

That made me think a bit about how we approach retro computers, and what we want from them.
1) create the ultimate period-correct machine (that we couldn't afford back then)
2) rebuild exact copy of systems you used back in the day (nostalgia tripping)
3) get something "cheap", likely not period-correct, but good enough to play with old software (like the generic office pc you mentioned)

Would be interesting to see how the vogon people divide between these categories.

Måttfull och balanserad.

Reply 71 of 114, by VileR

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awgamer wrote on 2023-01-19, 18:00:

There is no problem to solve, people have been like that with everything for all time, the solution is indeed grow a thicker skin, reject, ignore. Also, retro gaming as an identity? Get a grip. The outrage video is good for clicks though.

This. It's the sort of stuff that used to be called "first world problems" before people figured out how to weaponize them. Whenever someone these days goes, "it's time we stopped ignoring the problem with $x in $current_year" (or even better: "it's time we had the conversation about..."), you just know the clout-chasing is gonna drop.

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Reply 72 of 114, by Tetrium

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-01-20, 00:06:

I won't be surprised if that whole thing from that video, which is a comment on another video btw, is overblown out of proportion because it's missing certain context.

I wouldn't be surprised if almost all had been made up, kinda like the 'based on a true story (but we made everything up)' movies, like merely inspired by something.
The sole purpose of that vid seemed to be to make you want to bring out the pitchforks, tar and feathers and go riot or something.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 73 of 114, by Tetrium

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kolderman wrote on 2023-01-20, 01:15:

The bitchyness and drama in the retro-console world sickens me. I am glad I am not part of that community.

I was never really into the retro consoles, even though I had consoles from the Atari 2600. I should feel more nostalgic about consoles, but for some reason I don't really.

And the whole YATA or whatever that scamservice that made them rich was, it only makes that world worse. I knew someone who was into retro consoles but she stopped partially because of how unfun and expensive it eventually had become.

Vogons is a *retro PC* community and totally different.

Lets hope it stays that way.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 74 of 114, by Tetrium

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Anders- wrote on 2023-01-20, 07:53:
I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years. For me, the prices these da […]
Show full quote
Mandrew wrote on 2023-01-19, 16:14:
Anders- wrote on 2023-01-19, 00:45:

Of course there's gatekeeping, it comes in the form of hoarding and monopolizing of various retro sources, one can observe it on this forum.
A small amount of people keeping big collections of old gear is exactly what keeps it out of the hands of folks looking to get into the retro world.

There are literally millions upon millions of hardware and sources available for excellent prices and people still complain that this hobby is overtaken by hoarders and scalpers. It's sooo old. Aside from a few niché items this hobby is cheap and sources are vast. You want an expensive and difficult hobby? Try classic car restoration.

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

Only for stuff that has gotten older (I'll explain). There's always a grey area where parts age and their prices get to a low point and are abundant and where interest from retro hobbyists is also low. For all we know 10 to 15 years from now people will be thinking "Gah, I was such an idiot for having thrown out that AM3 and that crappy PCI-e LGA775 system back then -_-" and people who are then new to retro computing will blame people like you for the things you blame other now for.

10 to 15 years ago on forums such as VCF the generic thought was that anything past the 386 would never become collectible and for the longest time the wiki page on retro gaming didn't even (or like only as a footnote) mention retro gaming on a PC as such. And retro computing wiki page seems to not even mention anything related to PCs, which may be a blessing in disguise.

The people that nowdays say "Oh but this generic stuff is crap! It will never become valuable" are just making the same mistakes others made 10 to 15 years ago. And 15 years from now your clone might come to people like me and blame me for making their retro hobby expensive because I hoarded the stuff back when nobody wanted it. The stuff you may have no interest in today, so to say.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 75 of 114, by Tetrium

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VileR wrote on 2023-01-20, 10:25:
awgamer wrote on 2023-01-19, 18:00:

There is no problem to solve, people have been like that with everything for all time, the solution is indeed grow a thicker skin, reject, ignore. Also, retro gaming as an identity? Get a grip. The outrage video is good for clicks though.

This. It's the sort of stuff that used to be called "first world problems" before people figured out how to weaponize them. Whenever someone these days goes, "it's time we stopped ignoring the problem with $x in $current_year" (or even better: "it's time we had the conversation about..."), you just know the clout-chasing is gonna drop.

I had to look up what clout-chasing meant. I didn't know this was even a thing but from hindsight I have actually experienced it recently in a modding community. Or at least when looking at the definition I get when googling clout-chasing.

Btw don't even need to grow a thick skin, usually growing a thicker blocklist suffices 😜

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 76 of 114, by Mandrew

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Anders- wrote on 2023-01-20, 07:53:

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

Those times are not over, just changed. There are tons of P2-P3-P4-Athlon systems waiting for you to pick them out of the trash or buy for peanuts. CRT VGA monitors are still everywhere even NOS, most of them are free. It all depends on what you consider retro. If you only love 386 systems then yes, it's going to be slightly more difficult but it's still going to be relatively cheap.
You want a specific niché item from your childhood delivered to you under a week? That's gonna cost you.
Guess we are different when it comes to prices, I believe dumping $50-100 a month on a hobby is more than reasonable.

Reply 77 of 114, by Anders-

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Tetrium wrote on 2023-01-20, 11:31:
Only for stuff that has gotten older (I'll explain). There's always a grey area where parts age and their prices get to a low p […]
Show full quote
Anders- wrote on 2023-01-20, 07:53:
I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years. For me, the prices these da […]
Show full quote
Mandrew wrote on 2023-01-19, 16:14:

There are literally millions upon millions of hardware and sources available for excellent prices and people still complain that this hobby is overtaken by hoarders and scalpers. It's sooo old. Aside from a few niché items this hobby is cheap and sources are vast. You want an expensive and difficult hobby? Try classic car restoration.

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

Only for stuff that has gotten older (I'll explain). There's always a grey area where parts age and their prices get to a low point and are abundant and where interest from retro hobbyists is also low. For all we know 10 to 15 years from now people will be thinking "Gah, I was such an idiot for having thrown out that AM3 and that crappy PCI-e LGA775 system back then -_-" and people who are then new to retro computing will blame people like you for the things you blame other now for.

10 to 15 years ago on forums such as VCF the generic thought was that anything past the 386 would never become collectible and for the longest time the wiki page on retro gaming didn't even (or like only as a footnote) mention retro gaming on a PC as such. And retro computing wiki page seems to not even mention anything related to PCs, which may be a blessing in disguise.

The people that nowdays say "Oh but this generic stuff is crap! It will never become valuable" are just making the same mistakes others made 10 to 15 years ago. And 15 years from now your clone might come to people like me and blame me for making their retro hobby expensive because I hoarded the stuff back when nobody wanted it. The stuff you may have no interest in today, so to say.

The items are getting older for sure, any 486 (or whatever) is of course much older today than it was back in year 2000. But "retro computer" for me isn't just about getting a system which is more than XX years old (in a "going with the times" kinda way), it has to be from a specific period (80s/90s), and when looking at hardware from back then I think the prices are climbing up. (supply&demand)
Newer systems (p2 and up) leave me cold, and hoarding as some sort of way to make money isn't my cup of tea - it's got to be related to nostalgia. I get your point about each generation has their own hoarders though, nothing we can do about that. I still think we could be better at sharing the resources though.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-01-20, 11:37:

Those times are not over, just changed. There are tons of P2-P3-P4-Athlon systems waiting for you to pick them out of the trash or buy for peanuts. CRT VGA monitors are still everywhere even NOS, most of them are free. It all depends on what you consider retro. If you only love 386 systems then yes, it's going to be slightly more difficult but it's still going to be relatively cheap.
You want a specific niché item from your childhood delivered to you under a week? That's gonna cost you.
Guess we are different when it comes to prices, I believe dumping $50-100 a month on a hobby is more than reasonable.

My reply above kinda goes for you too.
A hobby is of course allowed to cost a bit, and while I don't spend anything at all on this, I can still complain about ebay-prices going through the ceiling 😁

Måttfull och balanserad.

Reply 78 of 114, by Jo22

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In some way or another, we're as vintage or obsolete as the systems in our hobby. ;)

So maybe, as the years go by, our level of "compatibility" to the outside world is affected, too? 🤷‍♂️

As an observer, it seems to me as if people/users had been changed in personality over the last ~17 years.

Back then and in the following years, they were so full of enthusiasm, so lively.

Now they are.. I don't know. Different, I guess. Sometimes more strict, less diplomatic?
Hm. I don't know. Maybe it is/was due to the Corona years, too?

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 79 of 114, by Tetrium

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Anders- wrote on 2023-01-20, 07:53:

I agree there are more expensive hobbies, but the prices have definitely kicked up during the years.
For me, the prices these days no longer stand in relation to what one actually get.
Back in the day people pretty much begged you to grab their old computers as it was considered trash and having it taken away for free turned into a "win-win" situation.

-snip-

My reply above kinda goes for you too.
A hobby is of course allowed to cost a bit, and while I don't spend anything at all on this, I can still complain about ebay-prices going through the ceiling 😁

That's exactly my point. Most people weren't interested in 486 stuff back when hardly anyone had interest in them and prices were low. Heck, I picked them off of the streets, cleaned them up, it was a labor of love and not some sort of greedily hoarding like you try to play it.

Just wondering: If you liked this stuff back then, why didn't you get it while it was still cheap?

You can blame the scalpers and other greedgroups for current prices, people like me have nothing to do with it. You're barking up the wrong tree 😜

And you haven't even explained yet how hoarding causes prices to go up anyway, so as far as I'm concerned, you're just trying to spread a lie. Feel free to explain how it supposedly works 🙂

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!