lolo799 wrote on 2023-03-04, 22:26:

Ah, right, I did buy that Thinkpad 365XD I pretty much registered here to inquire about (after some haggling!), what did I get?
A 4th hand computer never once reformatted, it appears!
Snooping a bit in Netscape Mail and the recycle bin it appears that it was used by a local university student whose family includes a teacher in an American college (which probably explains the PC being a premium American brand with an US keyboard); I did export them before doing a "full software refurbishment" and still undecided on whether it would be more appreciated/less creepy to find contact information and offer them their stuff back or just forget about it...

That's quite the lineage for a laptop. I have fond memories of the 365XD as I learned my way around a pointing stick on one.

That's something I've been wondering, too. I have a handful of drives I cloned and encrypted from computers I've picked up. The amount of snooping that I'd have to do to contact them makes me think they'd find it creepy. On the other hand, if I was the only person in possession of photos, family documents, etc. maybe it'd be appreciated. So I guess I've gone with the third option, secure a copy and do nothing and if I wait long enough maybe bit rot will just resolve the quandary.

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards.
Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I passed on him but seriously, I get how stuff is shipped with just a paper wrap... and delivered dead.
--
Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:25:

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards. Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I pass […]
Show full quote

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards.
Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I passed on him but seriously, I get how stuff is shipped with just a paper wrap... and delivered dead.
--
Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

Its less that its in paper and more how it was treated prior to being sold, paper in itself isnt a problem for electronics but using it as the only shipping protection is just plain stupid. From an ESD point paper envelopes are almost as good as ESD safe bags and work well enough if you don't have any ESD bags. (Yeah I know people who are ESD snobs will hate this but shit . .ESD bags aint cheap in the quantities needed for a collection)

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:31:

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:25:

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards. Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I pass […]
Show full quote

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards.
Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I passed on him but seriously, I get how stuff is shipped with just a paper wrap... and delivered dead.
--
Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

Its less that its in paper and more how it was treated prior to being sold, paper in itself isnt a problem for electronics but using as the only shipping protection is just plain stupid. From an ESD point Paper envelopes are almost as good as ESD safe bags and work well enough if you don't have any ESD bags.

You are too advanced! 🤣
I'm tired of human stupidity on the most obvious things.

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:38:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:31:

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:25:

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards. Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I pass […]
Show full quote

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards.
Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I passed on him but seriously, I get how stuff is shipped with just a paper wrap... and delivered dead.
--
Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

Its less that its in paper and more how it was treated prior to being sold, paper in itself isnt a problem for electronics but using as the only shipping protection is just plain stupid. From an ESD point Paper envelopes are almost as good as ESD safe bags and work well enough if you don't have any ESD bags.

You are too advanced! 🤣
I'm tired of human stupidity on the most obvious things.

My last shipment of ESD bags cost 70USD+shipping ....did get a bunch of sizes though but yeah they aint cheap even from Amazon. The motherboard shipping boxes actually cost me less ...which was fucking weird as there was 50 of them.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:31:

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:25:

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards. Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I pass […]
Show full quote

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards.
Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I passed on him but seriously, I get how stuff is shipped with just a paper wrap... and delivered dead.
--
Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

Its less that its in paper and more how it was treated prior to being sold, paper in itself isnt a problem for electronics but using it as the only shipping protection is just plain stupid. From an ESD point paper envelopes are almost as good as ESD safe bags and work well enough if you don't have any ESD bags. (Yeah I know people who are ESD snobs will hate this but shit . .ESD bags aint cheap in the quantities needed for a collection)

I tend to wrap my cards in paper when I'm short in ESD bags. Not sure if it's safe.
But like you said, it's not cheap.

I will often ask the seller specifically to reuse an old antistatic bag or, if they don't have one, to wrap the item in old newspaper. That's always worked for me.

acl wrote on 2023-03-06, 14:01:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:31:

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:25:

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards. Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I pass […]
Show full quote

I was looking for an AM4 cpu to test some boards.
Dude I was trying to buy from gave answers like he was high. In the end I passed on him but seriously, I get how stuff is shipped with just a paper wrap... and delivered dead.
--
Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

Its less that its in paper and more how it was treated prior to being sold, paper in itself isnt a problem for electronics but using it as the only shipping protection is just plain stupid. From an ESD point paper envelopes are almost as good as ESD safe bags and work well enough if you don't have any ESD bags. (Yeah I know people who are ESD snobs will hate this but shit . .ESD bags aint cheap in the quantities needed for a collection)

I tend to wrap my cards in paper when I'm short in ESD bags. Not sure if it's safe.
But like you said, it's not cheap.

Paper is pretty safe from ESD, so long as its just paper and not a mix of paper and fabric or other materials that increases the chance of it creating static.

Butchers paper is a good substitute or that tissue paper stuff. (Not actual tissues 🤣)

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:25:

Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

CPU socket testers exist, but I havent seen any 462/370/423, oldest supported socket seems to be 478
just one example https://www.indiamart.com/chiptroniks/cpu-socket-tester.html
they test something like IO pin termination at the chipset

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-03-06, 14:28:

CPU socket testers exist, but I havent seen any 462/370/423, oldest supported socket seems to be 478 just one example https://w […]
Show full quote

Nexxen wrote on 2023-03-06, 12:25:

Bought a slot A board, but it's dead. Probably the north bridge needs a reballing. No post codes, no nothing. Cpu is warm.
It'll be nice to have cpu analyzer cards, to check if there is signal I/O with NB.

CPU socket testers exist, but I havent seen any 462/370/423, oldest supported socket seems to be 478
just one example https://www.indiamart.com/chiptroniks/cpu-socket-tester.html
they test something like IO pin termination at the chipset

I ordered a 771/775. Crazy useful IMO.

yesterday I got 4 sata drives ... retro already? 2x pc 2x laptop.... testing now , some have bad sectors. one was full of.... on the pcb so I cleaned it ,hope it runs after this. Nexxen do you stil need a sk A board? or AM2 cpu (i dont have any AM4's sadly).

I don't consider sata to be retro. The latest boards still support them.

debs3759 wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:00:

I don't consider sata to be retro. The latest boards still support them.

Not only that, but there is little to no practical difference for most tasks when compared to newer standards.

debs3759 wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:00:

I don't consider sata to be retro. The latest boards still support them.

I have an objection for SATA WD Raptor/Velociraptor.
The first ones are from 2003 i think they can deserve to be called retro.
They are just totally obsolete today, but were top performers before SSDs.

I also like period correct HDD capacities, so even if it's not super retro yet, i may be interested in old "regular" low capacity SATA drives too.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-03-06, 14:08:

Paper is pretty safe from ESD, so long as its just paper and not a mix of paper and fabric or other materials that increases the chance of it creating static.
Butchers paper is a good substitute or that tissue paper stuff. (Not actual tissues 🤣)

Kahenraz wrote on 2023-03-06, 14:07:

I will often ask the seller specifically to reuse an old antistatic bag or, if they don't have one, to wrap the item in old newspaper. That's always worked for me.

Thanks for confirmation. Yes, i use mostly newspaper for "not super valuable" small cards . Antistatic bags for motherboards and valuable things.

I was just entering the arena , usually I use them externally on my Pre 2007 or pre 2003 systems. Hope I can get one working for the 486 on usb. I remember 2003 was such a big deal SATA =)) who knew it was slower than PATA133 I already had. I don't have velociraptors (raptors) , but they are cheap , I can get 7$/piece with warranty at local seller. These days its difficult (for me) to find stuff pre 2k year. So I just buy what I can at the local flea market... 4xhdds was 80 lei (that's 17$ us) - 2x1 tb 3.5" and 2x2.5" (one is 500g other 120g) , they do seem to have some bad sectors ,however for game stuff and music is supper ok. (for rest I have new stuff).

ediflorianUS wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:55:

I was just entering the arena , usually I use them externally on my Pre 2007 or pre 2003 systems. Hope I can get one working for the 486 on usb. I remember 2003 was such a big deal SATA =)) who knew it was slower than PATA133 I already had. I don't have velociraptors (raptors) , but they are cheap , I can get 7$/piece with warranty at local seller. These days its difficult (for me) to find stuff pre 2k year. So I just buy what I can at the local flea market... 4xhdds was 80 lei (that's 17$ us) - 2x1 tb 3.5" and 2x2.5" (one is 500g other 120g) , they do seem to have some bad sectors ,however for game stuff and music is supper ok. (for rest I have new stuff).

Bad sectors are usually recoverable, as I had a few drives myself which reported failed health (bad sectors) but if you look hard enough, there's a couple of programs out there which help recover such issues. The first one that comes to mind is actually called HDD regenerator (Google it) or HDD Sentinel (quite popular).

Makavre wrote on 2023-03-06, 17:10:

ediflorianUS wrote on 2023-03-06, 16:55:

I was just entering the arena , usually I use them externally on my Pre 2007 or pre 2003 systems. Hope I can get one working for the 486 on usb. I remember 2003 was such a big deal SATA =)) who knew it was slower than PATA133 I already had. I don't have velociraptors (raptors) , but they are cheap , I can get 7$/piece with warranty at local seller. These days its difficult (for me) to find stuff pre 2k year. So I just buy what I can at the local flea market... 4xhdds was 80 lei (that's 17$ us) - 2x1 tb 3.5" and 2x2.5" (one is 500g other 120g) , they do seem to have some bad sectors ,however for game stuff and music is supper ok. (for rest I have new stuff).

Bad sectors are usually recoverable, as I had a few drives myself which reported failed health (bad sectors) but if you look hard enough, there's a couple of programs out there which help recover such issues. The first one that comes to mind is actually called HDD regenerator (Google it) or HDD Sentinel (quite popular).

Those programs force HDD to use its repair mechanism and remap bad sectors using spare space. After the procedure drive is "healthy", but slower (additional seeks when encountering remapped sectors) and suspect (why did bad sector show up in the first place? failing head? contamination wracking havoc on disk surface?). Sometimes its fine and drives with few remapped sectors work like champs for years and years, other times its a sign drive is about to fail completely.
TLDR: those programs cant do magic, they can only trigger drive self preservation mode 😀

Used to get a lot of "soft" bad sectors with 9x and FAT, programs and windows crashing scrambling sector formatting.

Random anecdotal example from my dealings with old spinners:

Bought 2 identical models summer of 2002, 2x 80GB WesterDigital PATA drives, for my newly built Pentium4 machine. I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall their serial numbers were quite close, and was bought together in 1 order.

After many years(10-12?), the first disk, with all C:/ drives on it (dual boot Win98/XP) started to show some reallocated sectors. The second (data)disk was totally fine (and still is!).

Now, after more than 20 years of weekly/bi-weekly use, the 'bad' disk has then slowly/incrementally amassed a total of 20 reallocaton 'events', which consists of 32 actually reallocated sectors. And has been stable like that (no increase) for a couple of years now. Not sure if 32 sectors is regarded as many(?), but disk appears to work just as before I think.

PS: and booting win98 often takes a couple or more tries these last 10 years, as it seems to hang at desktop, with an extra number of identically named 'svchost' processes. But after a couple of reeboots it works fine, and the extra processes are not there in taskmanager anymore... I probably should re-install, but cannot be bothered for the few games I currently use it for (MTG Shandalar and Ascendancy, none of which like the XP side of my hdd much... 😋).

Yah I just let small amounts of randoms accumulate over long periods without worrying, if they cluster though, that's a surface damage indication, and if I desperately need to keep using that disk I will partition them out. (Put partition above and below and leave that "cylinder" or two unallocated and hopefully unaccessed) Probably I'll call something "done" when it's got randoms in the hundreds even if there are no spreading patches. Unless it's a unicorn drive, (XTs, early ATs, laptops with limited types etc) then it's just a case of running it and crossing your fingers, while not having any unique data kept on it.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but to use a "really spotty" drive, unless the CPU is hoplessly weak in it's class, I will make a compressed volume on the drive. Then scan disk it a few times... if errors keep happening, there's not much hope, but they typically limit to a couple of passes as the CVF settles in. But, what you've got here now is an extra layer of error detection/compensation/correction. This is all from experience by the way with being broke through the 90s when storage prices were insane capacities miniscule and I bought junk box hard drives for pocket change and tried to get use out of them.