VOGONS


Reply 23960 of 27502, by Kahenraz

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That's impressive when run natively. Keep in mind that any modern web browser can run on Unix, Windows 9x, and NT, if you cheat by forwarding a remote client with an X Windows Server. Something to look into, especially if you're running a Unix system.

It also makes downloading files MUCH easier, as you can access all of the modern SSL secured HTTPS websites that will not connect with older browsers. Use an rsync script to synchronize the download directory between the two systems, and it's almost as good as downloading the file locally, but with one extra step.

This is something that I've done for years. I haven't seen anyone else really do it though. It is somewhat difficult to setup, since it requires a significant amount of knowledge of both Unix systems and X Windows.

Modern Chromium browser running on Windows XP using X11 forwarding

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Reply 23961 of 27502, by pentiumspeed

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Find out that CPU upgraded family PC CPU heatsink fan rpm is oscillating up and down driving mother nuts so I'll have to drop in at local computer store, while there, and buy larger heatsink and at same time purchase NVME 1TB SSD with my money voucher that I got from last Christmas. The current heatsink is intel and is 1 inch high kind that worked well with i5 for years now insufficient for i7-4790K.

I just received my HP mini PC and inventoried the hardware contents revealed this came with 1TB 5400rpm spinner and one 16GB module. That will not do, which I'll correct that using NVME 1TB SSD for first time for me. Also purchased second 16GB module to make a matched set from ebay for total of 32GB in this.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 23962 of 27502, by davidrg

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Firefox 52 ESR is apparently the last release for Solaris 10 - according to the readme Oracle laid off the team as soon it was done. Its from 2017 so for now at least its still new enough to load and render all websites I've tested so far.

The machine is a Sun Blade 1500 with a 1GHz UltraSPARC IIIi processor and 2GB RAM. Single core integer performance is similar to the Raspberry Pi 3 according to the p7zip benchmark so a bit on the slow side but not so much that the browser is unusable.

Reply 23963 of 27502, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-03-15, 23:35:

Find out that CPU upgraded family PC CPU heatsink fan rpm is oscillating up and down driving mother nuts so I'll have to drop in at local computer store, while there, and buy larger heatsink and at same time purchase NVME 1TB SSD with my money voucher that I got from last Christmas. The current heatsink is intel and is 1 inch high kind that worked well with i5 for years now insufficient for i7-4790K.

I just received my HP mini PC and inventoried the hardware contents revealed this came with 1TB 5400rpm spinner and one 16GB module. That will not do, which I'll correct that using NVME 1TB SSD for first time for me. Also purchased second 16GB module to make a matched set from ebay for total of 32GB in this.

Cheers,

Moving from a 5400RPM drive to NVMe is like moving from an Ford Model T to an Enzo Ferrari.

Cyb3rst0rms Retro Hardware Warzone: https://discord.gg/jK8uvR4c
I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 23964 of 27502, by pentiumspeed

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-03-16, 00:57:
pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-03-15, 23:35:

Find out that CPU upgraded family PC CPU heatsink fan rpm is oscillating up and down driving mother nuts so I'll have to drop in at local computer store, while there, and buy larger heatsink and at same time purchase NVME 1TB SSD with my money voucher that I got from last Christmas. The current heatsink is intel and is 1 inch high kind that worked well with i5 for years now insufficient for i7-4790K.

I just received my HP mini PC and inventoried the hardware contents revealed this came with 1TB 5400rpm spinner and one 16GB module. That will not do, which I'll correct that using NVME 1TB SSD for first time for me. Also purchased second 16GB module to make a matched set from ebay for total of 32GB in this.

Cheers,

Moving from a 5400RPM drive to NVMe is like moving from an Ford Model T to an Enzo Ferrari.

What about restating this as "from SATA SSD to NVMe..."? I'm on SATA SSD now on practically all of my computers except vintage computers kept hard drive and occasional compact flash.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 23965 of 27502, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-03-16, 01:00:
TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-03-16, 00:57:
pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-03-15, 23:35:

Find out that CPU upgraded family PC CPU heatsink fan rpm is oscillating up and down driving mother nuts so I'll have to drop in at local computer store, while there, and buy larger heatsink and at same time purchase NVME 1TB SSD with my money voucher that I got from last Christmas. The current heatsink is intel and is 1 inch high kind that worked well with i5 for years now insufficient for i7-4790K.

I just received my HP mini PC and inventoried the hardware contents revealed this came with 1TB 5400rpm spinner and one 16GB module. That will not do, which I'll correct that using NVME 1TB SSD for first time for me. Also purchased second 16GB module to make a matched set from ebay for total of 32GB in this.

Cheers,

Moving from a 5400RPM drive to NVMe is like moving from an Ford Model T to an Enzo Ferrari.

What about restating this as "from SATA SSD to NVMe..."? I'm on SATA SSD now on practically all of my computers except vintage computers kept hard drive and occasional compact flash.

Cheers,

Like moving from a Mustang GT to an Enzo Ferrari.

Still a massive boost. 500MB/s vs 2.5 to 4.0GB/s depending the exact drive and NVME gen.

Cyb3rst0rms Retro Hardware Warzone: https://discord.gg/jK8uvR4c
I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 23966 of 27502, by Kahenraz

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Unless you're moving VERY large files, there should be no noticable performance gain upgrading from a SATA SSD to an NVMe. The primary cause of spinning hard disks being slow was now the throughput but the latency.

I also use SATA with almost everything. I use a single NVMe drive for a dedicated swap disk. I just recently upgraded my drive that stores my virtual machine images to a 2 TB SSD (also SATA) and there was a significant performance uplift, simply because there were more individual flash chips to parallelize the transfer.

You may actually experience a significant drop in performance if you happen to upgrade from a SATA SSD with DRAM cache to an NVMe SSD with no DRAM cache.

There is a lot of nuance that goes into these performance characteristics, such as number of flash chips (generally follow the size of the drive), the type of flash memory (SLC, MLC, QLC), whether there is a DRAM cache, etc.

For example, I bought a brand new modern 500GB Crucial P3 NVMe to test against a very old 128 and 256 GB Samsung NVMe. The Samsung blew the Crucial out of the water for sustained for the entire drive capacity writes because of the DRAM cache, while the Crucial started out fast but quickly dropped to very slow speeds, both as the SLC cache ran out and the drive began to fill.

In this case, I too wanted to see if modern DRAM-less drives had improved, but they're still garbage unless you're really pinching pennies or have very low performance requirements, such as a vintage machine. It's not much more expensive to get a drive with dedicated cache; in my case, I bought the Crucial P3 Plus.

All performance metrics for NVMe drives are based on the burst speed of an empty drive. This is very unrealistic, and this kind of performance can only be achieved under brief loads that occur only periodically, and only on the fastest compatible interface. When in doubt, run some benchmarks when you receive the disk-- on the WHOLE disk, not just a few gigabytes.

Reply 23967 of 27502, by Thermalwrong

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I bought 2x very cheap 64GB CF cards and one is working great in my iPod 3rd gen, the other I got curious about and took apart, that no longer works sadly. Oh well, it was still cheap and now I know the flash chips are garbage but functional with an SM2234H controller. Still a good CF card at 2x the price actually since 64GB is almost never in that price range. Got a pair of 16GB SLC industrial CF cards today as well and wow those are fast, don't think I've seen 100MB read on a CF card before.

Beyond that I'm trying to get things working so that I can pack them away and get onto moving since I'm doing that soon (procrastinating just a bit). So far I've got 3x of the 486 boards I purchased as not working into a working state, in each case it was stilly stuff like jumpers or cache chips in the wrong places that I couldn't spot at the time. Seriously, 486s are such an experience since there's 3+ CPU types to support and the board will just not function in most cases until the jumpers are just right.
With today's one it was the Gemlight GMB-486SG-V2.2 board which has a different jumper configuration than that board on theretroweb: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/dtk-pkm-0038s The JP24 jumper being the most significant difference.
Of course, thanks to this forum and the person maintaining this awesome page: https://www.iwriteiam.nl/GMB-486SG.html
I now have the manual for the version of my board and it's working 😀 the repair work I did on it months ago to just get a post code of "--" was successful and it was just jumper config. Another one down.

Before now, I've never come across a motherboard with the same silkscreened name but two different PCB revisions.

Reply 23968 of 27502, by BitWrangler

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That's the blessing and the curse of improving motherboard info archival, eventually you can get your board set right.... but less boards sold for $5 "dead" that just need the jumpers set right 🤣


Another day poking around HDDs trying to find ones to use, looking up stuff incessantly, this version of V2 drivers, the interwebs have that right? right, okay next, that version AmiBCP it's not one of the missing ones? nope... damn I get bogged down and sidetracked easy too... ooh, shiny thing.

Also currently twitching as I just dropped some coin on a bunch of electronic parts, now I stumble over a store with some useful other parts, and damn, there's a keyboard I know I like... ... ...

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 23969 of 27502, by Ozzuneoj

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Ugh... I've been going through a huge box of 3.5" floppies some guy gave me 5-6 years ago. I had it in storage and recently pulled it out to finally just go through it and throw away anything that wasn't worth saving.

I was always someone who liked to wipe and reuse disks, but this is proving to be so bad that it's not worth it. Lots of the disks either don't read at all or make a terrible scraping\scratching sound when they turn. Some don't even spin at all. I have found a few small archives of old programs, drivers and some games, but generally it's nothing worth struggling over. These were stored in a basement for many years so have lots of problems reading.

I actually just had my virus scanner alert me to the existence of Virus:DOS\Form on an old set of original DOS 6.0 installation disks from 1993.
One thing that's pretty interesting is one IBM branded 3.5 disk with a label on it that says "For IBM Use Only" with a couple check boxes that say "IBM Confidential" or "IBM Internal"... amusingly, neither are checked off and the description written on the disk is "Games". Sure enough, there are some old games on it from 1991. 🤣

Also found 4 disks labeled "Compuserve Downloads" 1-4. Sadly, the first one only read once and has not read since. I was able to copy all of the files from 2-4 though.

None of this would be possible if I hadn't picked up some 3.5" floppy cleaning disks a while back. Totally indispensable for this task.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 23970 of 27502, by Thermalwrong

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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-16, 03:57:
That's the blessing and the curse of improving motherboard info archival, eventually you can get your board set right.... but le […]
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That's the blessing and the curse of improving motherboard info archival, eventually you can get your board set right.... but less boards sold for $5 "dead" that just need the jumpers set right 🤣


Another day poking around HDDs trying to find ones to use, looking up stuff incessantly, this version of V2 drivers, the interwebs have that right? right, okay next, that version AmiBCP it's not one of the missing ones? nope... damn I get bogged down and sidetracked easy too... ooh, shiny thing.

Also currently twitching as I just dropped some coin on a bunch of electronic parts, now I stumble over a store with some useful other parts, and damn, there's a keyboard I know I like... ... ...

Wow, that is actually literally what I paid for each of the 5 boards. I was gonna disagree, that it's not possible to get 486 boards that cheap anymore but I bought them in 2022. Regardless it's been fun, some of them were Abit AN4 boards and dang those things are common - I thought the cache access was broken but didn't spot that I had a 16kx8 mixed in with the 32kx8 chips...
Gotta get in touch regarding the settings for these, got 2 boards now that need theretroweb's information updated. What's the best way to do that?

I know what you mean about getting sidetracked too 😀, ended up spending an evening researching obscure driver files for a VLB VGA+IDE card and only used it for the first time the other day - completely forgot that I looked up any of that information and was probably better off for it. Just copied the jumper settings from a picture and cleaned contacts then it all worked.

Last edited by Thermalwrong on 2023-03-16, 04:31. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 23971 of 27502, by Kahenraz

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-03-16, 04:17:

Ugh... I've been going through a huge box of 3.5" floppies some guy gave me 5-6 years ago. I had it in storage and recently pulled it out to finally just go through it and throw away anything that wasn't worth saving.

Are you sure that you haven't accumulated destructive dust and detritus on the read head of your floppy drive, reading all of those bad disks?

It might be worth cleaning it off carefully with a cotton swab.

Reply 23972 of 27502, by Thermalwrong

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Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-03-16, 04:17:
Ugh... I've been going through a huge box of 3.5" floppies some guy gave me 5-6 years ago. I had it in storage and recently pull […]
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Ugh... I've been going through a huge box of 3.5" floppies some guy gave me 5-6 years ago. I had it in storage and recently pulled it out to finally just go through it and throw away anything that wasn't worth saving.

I was always someone who liked to wipe and reuse disks, but this is proving to be so bad that it's not worth it. Lots of the disks either don't read at all or make a terrible scraping\scratching sound when they turn. Some don't even spin at all. I have found a few small archives of old programs, drivers and some games, but generally it's nothing worth struggling over. These were stored in a basement for many years so have lots of problems reading.

I actually just had my virus scanner alert me to the existence of Virus:DOS\Form on an old set of original DOS 6.0 installation disks from 1993.
One thing that's pretty interesting is one IBM branded 3.5 disk with a label on it that says "For IBM Use Only" with a couple check boxes that say "IBM Confidential" or "IBM Internal"... amusingly, neither are checked off and the description written on the disk is "Games". Sure enough, there are some old games on it from 1991. 🤣

Also found 4 disks labeled "Compuserve Downloads" 1-4. Sadly, the first one only read once and has not read since. I was able to copy all of the files from 2-4 though.

None of this would be possible if I hadn't picked up some 3.5" floppy cleaning disks a while back. Totally indispensable for this task.

Oof, yep at this point I don't even bother using old 3.5" disks since many of them are warped (scratching sound, disk is ruined, may damage the head too) or otherwise damaged now, just put in a couple of orders for some fresh disks from 1992-4. Amazing that there are still sealed boxes available.
I don't think they were so reliable to begin with but I could certainly run data off multiple disks from point A to point B back in the 90s. Recently though I' ve had a couple of install disks from my fresh set go bad already (maybe from bad drives?).

Occasionally the disks can be great quality, I've got a few 720k disks from the early 90s that still read without issue, there's a survivorship bias however since not all of them made it, even my LS120 superdisk can't recover everything. Then there's the late 90s early 2000s disks that were made so cheap it's a wonder they worked at all.

Reply 23973 of 27502, by Ozzuneoj

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Kahenraz wrote on 2023-03-16, 04:26:
Ozzuneoj wrote on 2023-03-16, 04:17:

Ugh... I've been going through a huge box of 3.5" floppies some guy gave me 5-6 years ago. I had it in storage and recently pulled it out to finally just go through it and throw away anything that wasn't worth saving.

Are you sure that you haven't accumulated destructive dust and detritus on the read head of your floppy drive, reading all of those bad disks?

It might be worth cleaning it off carefully with a cotton swab.

As mentioned, I'm actually using a cleaning disk. The type with the felt pad that cleans the heads. Also, it's a USB floppy drive (one of the Dell laptop drives that also has a mini-USB port) so it isn't too easy to get into for manual cleaning.

So far, the cleaning disk has helped each time I have difficulty reading anything. 😀

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 23974 of 27502, by Shagittarius

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I always wonder where you guys live that most floppies are dead. All of the games I've owned since late 80s early 90s on floppies work fine. All sealed packages of floppies I've bought have all worked fine. It's like some people must be orbiting mercury without shielding or something.

Reply 23975 of 27502, by Kahenraz

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My retail floppy of Sid Meier's Civilization for Windows 3.1 had a disk fail sometime around 1994 or 1995. My retail floppy set of Inherit the Earth also had a disk that was always faulty, either from the factory or sometime later (I don't recall if I bought it used or new). I have also encountered disks from Microsoft that have failed at some later time, but still while contemporary, usually at the work possible time, such as during the installation from a very large set of disks for Windows 95. Note that all of these failures are of retail disks and don't even include any of the questionable blank floppies that have failed me over the years.

If you have never experienced a failed floppy, I wonder if you're not the one orbiting Mercury, because I'm not convinced that you're from Earth.

Please feel free to discuss any of your personal anecdotes here:

Informal poll on anecdotal failures of blank floppy media, specifically for documents needed for school or work

Reply 23976 of 27502, by Ozzuneoj

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Shagittarius wrote on 2023-03-16, 06:43:

I always wonder where you guys live that most floppies are dead. All of the games I've owned since late 80s early 90s on floppies work fine. All sealed packages of floppies I've bought have all worked fine. It's like some people must be orbiting mercury without shielding or something.

Pretty much any floppies that have been in my possession for most of their life still work because I generally kept them in normal rooms of a house.

The problem is getting floppies out of basements in damp climates. Once they've sat in that environment for 20+ years, there's a good chance that the disc surface is damaged or at least coated in something nasty.

People in dry and mild climates just don't realize what the rest of the world has to deal with. 😮

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 23977 of 27502, by Thermalwrong

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Still going through my pile of 5x dead 486 motherboards that I got in 2021 - it's the lot that essentially stopped me from buying up lots of vintage mainboards since I couldn't figure them out at the time.

Today I took on the Asus VL/I-486SVGOX4 which was the real reason I bought the lot. A VLB 486 Socket 3 with voltage regulator, coin cell powered CMOS and PS/2 mouse support.
I spent ages on this board the last time I took a look at it, it came to me with no BIOS ROM and the jumpers needed changing. The documentation for the board is fairly good though so I got those all right at the time, like a year ago when I packed this lot away last time.
I just could not get it to do anything and couldn't figure out why, I could see that there were some signals going on the ROM but didn't get anywhere.

Just randomly taking a look at it with a head torch on before installing components, I spotted some weird colour inside the TAG CACHE slot, some kind of bright yellow inside which didn't clean up with IPA.

Desoldered the TAG cache slot and...

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That's pins 104 and 103 on the chipset just randomly smashed and somewhat connected together now, which I'm pretty sure is not how it was from the factory. The "Address Status" and "Read/Write" pins which seem to run to the CPU. Can you guess what must've caused this? 😀

Wires put back in place with my trace pen and some superglue to hold them out of the way of the TAG cache socket legs:

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The board's just gone from "--" on the POST card to getting stuck on the memory check. Gave it some RAM and it beeped to request a video card. Now it boots:

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Quite glad I didn't give up on this board now, it's amazing how things can change just leaving stuff for a while to get a different perspective. I do wonder as well if I installed Cache on it without inspecting it completely and that lead to this situation. Which is great, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to get this board.