Maybe try different driver.

Can you show the photo of ISA S3 Trio64?

kixs wrote on 2023-03-31, 16:16:

Maybe try different driver.

Can you show the photo of ISA S3 Trio64?

I would if I had one, do you know of one for Windows NT 4.00 SP6a please? I am currently using V4.00.1381.164 that came with Windows and was built on 1999-02-11 @ 21:31:12.

I have an ISA 2MB ATI Mach64 card. It should support the same as the PCI variant I would think.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-03-31, 16:59:

I have an ISA 2MB ATI Mach64 card. It should support the same as the PCI variant I would think.

Can you check? My SIV utility should report the supported modes on Menu->Machine->Graphics if the card is in a Windows NT or 9X system.

red-ray wrote on 2023-03-31, 17:11:

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-03-31, 16:59:

I have an ISA 2MB ATI Mach64 card. It should support the same as the PCI variant I would think.

Can you check? My SIV utility should report the supported modes on Menu->Machine->Graphics if the card is in a Windows NT or 9X system.

I'll have to dig it out and build a system to put it in. I'll try to check this weekend and report back.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-03-31, 17:13:

I'll have to dig it out and build a system to put it in. I'll try to check this weekend and report back.

Thank you, that would be great. I checked my PCI one on a Pentium Pro 233 system running Windows XP, but as I recall ISA GPUs are not supported on XP. As I have NT 4.00 SP6a ideally use NT 4.00 as 9X drivers are often different.

red-ray wrote on 2023-03-31, 16:37:

kixs wrote on 2023-03-31, 16:16:

Maybe try different driver.

Can you show the photo of ISA S3 Trio64?

I would if I had one, do you know of one for Windows NT 4.00 SP6a please? I am currently using V4.00.1381.164 that came with Windows and was built on 1999-02-11 @ 21:31:12.

I wanted a photo of the card as I never heard Trio64 would support ISA bus. Only VLB and PCI.

Can't help with the drivers. I don't use NT4 (at the moment).

kixs wrote on 2023-03-31, 18:50:

I wanted a photo of the card as I never heard Trio64 would support ISA bus. Only VLB and PCI.

It's on the motherboard.

red-ray wrote on 2023-03-31, 19:03:

kixs wrote on 2023-03-31, 18:50:

I wanted a photo of the card as I never heard Trio64 would support ISA bus. Only VLB and PCI.

It's on the motherboard.

Thanks for the photo.
But how can we be sure that it is ISA then?
I'm sure it is local bus then.

Disruptor wrote on 2023-03-31, 19:05:

But how can we be sure that it is ISA then? I'm sure it is local bus then.

I guess we can't, I assumed it was ISA and there are no VLB slots on the motherboard.

I just searched the Venturis 486 PC Service Maintenance Manual (EK-A0813-SV. B01) for VLB and it was not found.

The PCI ID is actually reported in the option ROM BIOS !

red-ray wrote on 2023-03-31, 19:21:

I guess we can't, I assumed it was ISA and there are no VLB slots on the motherboard. […]
Show full quote

Disruptor wrote on 2023-03-31, 19:05:

But how can we be sure that it is ISA then? I'm sure it is local bus then.

I guess we can't, I assumed it was ISA and there are no VLB slots on the motherboard.

I just searched the Venturis 486 PC Service Maintenance Manual (EK-A0813-SV. B01) for VLB and it was not found.

The PCI ID is actually reported in the option ROM BIOS !

PCI without slots. Considerable too.

Well, there is no need for it to be VESA-LB if it just is onboard.
As far as I know, local bus devices do not have any special treatment from BIOS.
They may be detected to have double speed at 32 bit transfers compared to 16 bit transfers - if they are not from Cirrus 😉

Try to use CTCM /VID from heise. ctcm 1.7a

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/dec-ve … 86-433-ver.-1.0

That board is confusing. SIS ISA/VLB chipset, but
https://vgamuseum.info/index.php/companies/it … th-se-s3-trio32
https://manx-docs.org/collections/mds-199909/ … pc/a0813svb.pdf
VENTURIS 486 Full Profile Models Only)
Device Number (hex) Function
00 CPU bridge
01 ISA bridge
08 Onboard PCI IDE
09 Onboard PCI VGA

there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMD640 on board, but where the hell is PCI controller? 😮 so it looks like both CMD640 and 86C732 P are sitting on VLB bus.
red-ray something to keep in mind "CMD640 has data corruption bugs"

Good news everyone I thought of a 4MB high res capable ISA card that's not ridiculously priced at $150 a piece.... https://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/cpu/item/344-s3-p86c928 these kind of thing... instead they seem to be ridiculously priced at $300 a piece. 😒

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-31, 22:21:

Good news everyone I thought of a 4MB high res capable ISA card that's not ridiculously priced at $150 a piece.... https://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/cpu/item/344-s3-p86c928 these kind of thing... instead they seem to be ridiculously priced at $300 a piece. 😒

I'm sorry, that page is wrong.
I have that ELSA Winner 1000.
And, beneath the 2D accellerator, the only thing that a RAM upgrade from 1 MB to 2 MB does, is enabling 1280x1024x8bpp.
It does NOT support 4 MB of VRAM, as stated on that page.
And, yes, it supports more than 256 colours. But this is ridiculous because the refresh rate is a half at high colour and a third at true colour due to an 8 bit transfer path to the DAC.

red-ray wrote on 2023-03-31, 19:03:

kixs wrote on 2023-03-31, 18:50:

I wanted a photo of the card as I never heard Trio64 would support ISA bus. Only VLB and PCI.

It's on the motherboard.

In 1994 there was VLB and PCI. ISA was on the way out. To get a feeling on what bus is connected try a Speedsys and the VGA transfer speed will indicate what it is. If it's less then 4MB/s== ISA. VLB or PCI should be around 10MB/s or more - it depends on the motherboard too.

kixs wrote on 2023-04-01, 06:49:

To get a feeling on what bus is connected try a Speedsys and the VGA transfer speed will indicate what it is

Looks like it must be VLB and guess 18 MB/s is quite a respectable speed, is it?

Actually I get 17MB/s on VLB and 18MB/s on PCI bus. It's definitely not an ISA bus 😉

kixs wrote on 2023-04-01, 10:02:

Actually I get 17MB/s on VLB and 18MB/s on PCI bus. It's definitely not an ISA bus 😉

I just changed the CPU and it's still 18 MB/s, I wonder why you only see 17 MB/s, which CPU do you have?

I don't think it can be PCI as the SiS 471 does not support PCI and SIV does not see any PCI devices.

red-ray wrote on 2023-04-01, 09:57:

kixs wrote on 2023-04-01, 06:49:

To get a feeling on what bus is connected try a Speedsys and the VGA transfer speed will indicate what it is

Looks like it must be VLB and guess 18 MB/s is quite a respectable speed, is it?

In your SpeedSys' report DEC Venturis 4.TXT I cannot see anything about PCI.
Perhaps your option ROM will work on both PCI and local bus S3 Trios - that may be interesting to disassemble.
But we are far off-topic now and you don't want to hijack this thread, do you?

There are only two S3 928 ISA Cards with 4MB, as i know

SPEA Mercury Pro
https://retronn.de/imports/hwgal/hw_graphics_ … ry_pro_isa.html

ELSA Winner 2000-4
http://old.vgamuseum.info/pirxs-collection/15 … nner2000-4.html

The S3 86C928 is able of TrueColor only with 32Bit. The 24-bit modes (packed pixels) are first supported by the Vision models from S3. With the above mentioned cards TrueColor is possible up to 1024x768, HighColor with 16Bit up to 1280x1024.
Theoretically, 32Bit TrueColor is also possible at 1152x resolutions at this cards, but this has to be supported by the drivers. The S3 928 at least supports the VESA mode 1152x900x8.