VOGONS


Reply 24100 of 27184, by Sombrero

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-03-30, 15:44:
Sombrero wrote on 2023-03-30, 15:31:

So whats with WinXP SP2 and SSD's? Anything I could try to get it working? I've already tried to clean the drive and create new partition with Windows 7's diskpart (with correct partition alignment), no go.

I vaguely remember partition alignment being a problem for one of my retro systems. The OS wouldn't install on a correctly aligned partition, but if I let it format the disk on its own, it worked fine.

I think it may have been Win2K in my case, not sure. It was a few years back.

Joseph to the rescue, that was it 👍

Pretty sure I tried to make a partition with the XP installer but I used quick format instead of full, I went and tried again but this time used the full format and XP started to install just fine. Welp, I guess it's back to SP3 or start enjoying disk defragmenting with the HDD. Though not sure would I actually notice the performance drop due to misalignment.

Reply 24102 of 27184, by Shponglefan

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BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-30, 15:53:
Shponglefan wrote on 2023-03-30, 15:40:
Testing out a Logitech Momo driving wheel I picked up recently. […]
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Testing out a Logitech Momo driving wheel I picked up recently.

Everything works except for the brake pedal. For whatever reason, it shows as fully depressed (100%) in the Logitech software. Pressing the brake pedal doesn't change anything. Meanwhile, pressing the accelerator causes both the accelerator to move to 100% and the brake to reduce to ~5%.

Tested this on two different computers with two different operating systems (Windows 98SE and Windows XP) to rule out any system shenanigans.

I popped open the pedals themselves to test some things. Continuity seems to be fine through the attached cable. And the pot itself seems functional, although I don't know at this stage how it is calibrated and what the expected values are.

I'll need to do some more testing with the unit plugged in to see if I can get any response from the brake pedal's pot. Then maybe need to pop open the wheel itself, since everything runs through that.

Are they not wired as top and bottom of same axis? If you were using a joystick, you'd be pushing forward or pulling back on the Y. ... though true simulation you should be able to do both at once, to destabilise vehicle on accel and brakes for throwing it sideways in turns.

They appear to be, although the drivers do allow for recognizing the pedals as independent axes.

But having tried it both ways on two different systems, I still can't get any recognition from the brake pedal.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 24103 of 27184, by rasz_pl

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Shponglefan wrote on 2023-03-30, 15:40:

Everything works except for the brake pedal. For whatever reason, it shows as fully depressed (100%) in the Logitech software. Pressing the brake pedal doesn't change anything. Meanwhile, pressing the accelerator causes both the accelerator to move to 100% and the brake to reduce to ~5%.

sure sounds like some backward compatibility mode, you might have more luck asking on racing forums with people knowing those wheels intimately

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 24104 of 27184, by Thermalwrong

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At last I've sort-of managed to troubleshoot something using my oscilloscope. I posted a picture of this board the other day with the front and back traces overlaid - I got this board a couple of years back as someone else had attempted to repair it and not got it working. I couldn't do much better although I did repair a bunch of the vias it still wouldn't do anything.

This is a WTC POP-3254 and the example shown on the retroweb appears to be in a worse state than my one. It's a rather old and basic 386dx board with no cache and the battery had destroyed some traces and vias by the 82c206 chip. It was coming out of reset and the clocks were working, but it didn't do anything.
Checking with the scope on the BIOS EEPROM I could see that there were signals on both the address and data lines, but some of the address lines seemed to have the same signal patterns and went from 5v to 2.5v which didn't seem right, most signals went to a lower voltage for a low signal.

Washed it up in the sink because this board has clearly been exposed to the elements and there were some white marks around most of the pins where I think the lead was leeching out. It cleaned up nicely but that didn't fix anything.
One of the 74LS373 chips had been replaced and socketed by the previous owner so I decided to pull everything in that area off, test it and check the connections of the traces, including the 82C206:

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The pads/legs of the 82C206 were a bit corroded so that had to be checked too - there were bad VIAs hiding underneath it. Laboriously tracing and checking each trace that the 74LS373s attached to. The 74LS373 that wasn't replaced was bad after all, but its traces were in better shape.

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A front and back picture lets me trace all the lines in Krita and see all the points they pop up - this is doable because this is a comparatively simple 4 layer board with VCC and GND on the inner layers, with signal routing on the outer layers only.
You can see how it looks for tracing here: Re: What retro activity did you get up to today?
This has the underside as the bottom layer with a filter mask layer to adjust the tint. The topside layer goes above that with the Blending Mode set to Lighten - which gives a really nice kind of overlay and the layers are different colours so it's easy to tell what I'm following. Some more layers on top with the set of pins I'm tracing. I'll definitely use this method again in future, I was able to find a bunch of broken connections by following the traces on the screen.
Then drawing a marking by the pin so I can tell it's been checked - only one wire had to be run on the outside, that's the one marked X.

Put it back together and put the 82C206 back on, it powered right up! Yay 😀

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For some reason it has a 33MHz Intel 386, but the clock crystal is 50MHz for 25MHz CPU speed. The BIOS doesn't appear to be online and it came to me with no sticker on the EEPROM window, there was a big gap in the ROM file so I was worried the ROM was damaged, but it's fine after all. It's an AMI BIOS with a BIOS string of EOX3-6069-083090-KM
This thing is old enough that it has bios settings configured either with easy OPTI setup which has few options like wait state, or advanced OPTI setup where settings are configured by changing register bits, it's guided but it shows which bits are being altered for 11H, 14H etc. The board's from mid 1991 going by the chip markings but the BIOS and design both say '90, so it's probably the oldest computer I've got along with the Tandon motherboard.

edit: ergh okay so it's not working entirely. Stuff like keyboard works and I can change settings / save settings in the BIOS, but the computer can't boot from a floppy disk. Could that be a problem with DMA? That's handled by the 82C206 and there's a cluster of damaged traces there that were repaired.
It just says insert BOOT diskette and I've tried two known good drives, it does the track seek on boot so I think it's solely down to being unable to read the data.

Reply 24105 of 27184, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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Shponglefan wrote on 2023-03-30, 19:31:
BitWrangler wrote on 2023-03-30, 15:53:
Shponglefan wrote on 2023-03-30, 15:40:
Testing out a Logitech Momo driving wheel I picked up recently. […]
Show full quote

Testing out a Logitech Momo driving wheel I picked up recently.

Everything works except for the brake pedal. For whatever reason, it shows as fully depressed (100%) in the Logitech software. Pressing the brake pedal doesn't change anything. Meanwhile, pressing the accelerator causes both the accelerator to move to 100% and the brake to reduce to ~5%.

Tested this on two different computers with two different operating systems (Windows 98SE and Windows XP) to rule out any system shenanigans.

I popped open the pedals themselves to test some things. Continuity seems to be fine through the attached cable. And the pot itself seems functional, although I don't know at this stage how it is calibrated and what the expected values are.

I'll need to do some more testing with the unit plugged in to see if I can get any response from the brake pedal's pot. Then maybe need to pop open the wheel itself, since everything runs through that.

Are they not wired as top and bottom of same axis? If you were using a joystick, you'd be pushing forward or pulling back on the Y. ... though true simulation you should be able to do both at once, to destabilise vehicle on accel and brakes for throwing it sideways in turns.

They appear to be, although the drivers do allow for recognizing the pedals as independent axes.

But having tried it both ways on two different systems, I still can't get any recognition from the brake pedal.

Some part of the sensor itself is probably jammed to maximum and isn't releasing with the pedal itself. I'd disassemble and inspect for mechanical failures.

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Reply 24106 of 27184, by BitWrangler

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I have actually seen a potentiometer shaft snap before, that could be a possibility.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 24107 of 27184, by Shponglefan

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I did some more testing of the pedals.

The pots are providing variable resistance and there is continuity through the attached cable.

In testing, the brake pot ranges from 3.37 kΩ (unpressed) to 5.83 kΩ (pressed). The accelerator ranges from 6.48 kΩ (unpressed) to ~13 to 22 kΩ (pressed).

I also experimented with swapping to the two pots around (i.e. swapping the accelerator pot for the brake pot). That had no effect on testing with driver software as the brake still shows being 'stuck' as max pressed, whereas the accelerator works as expected.

I further disassembled the wheel itself and looked at the controller. The lines for the pots specifically go straight to the microcontroller on the board. Physical inspection of the board showed no obvious issues. Continuity tested fine and there also don't appear to be any shorts.

I figure at this point if the pots are fine, then it may be an issue with the microcontroller or possibly a software calibration problem? I may also try testing the supplied voltages as well, though without knowing the voltages should be, I'm not sure how much that will help.

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486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 24108 of 27184, by Shponglefan

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-04-01, 04:52:

Some part of the sensor itself is probably jammed to maximum and isn't releasing with the pedal itself. I'd disassemble and inspect for mechanical failures.

BitWrangler wrote on 2023-04-01, 05:00:

I have actually seen a potentiometer shaft snap before, that could be a possibility.

The pots are providing variable resistance. Even swapping the pots around didn't change testing software: no response from the brake pedal, but the accelerator pedal worked fine.

My feeling is there is either a problem with the voltages being supplied, a problem with the microcontroller, or maybe just a software calibration issue.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 24109 of 27184, by PcBytes

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I finally got the Turion ML-37 to properly work.

Sacrifices done:
-K8N4-E and a K8V-X SE got zapped by a bad CWT ISO PSU that sent 9v on the 5vSB rail out of the blue
-Sempron LE-1150 that I had to smash with a hammer to get the IHS off (it was dead to begin with so nothing of value was lost)
-another K8V-X SE had to be recapped as the original Chemicon KZG caps started barfing their guts out.

Finally, the working and recapped K8V-X SE had its BIOS updated from 0802 to 1501. The reason for this is that while 0802 did identify the CPU correctly, it would not survive reboots - black screen.
With 1501, it now POSTs and enters Windows XP without any hitches, and is properly detected. What I didn't test is if Cool n' Quiet is working of any kind on this K8V-X SE.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
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98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 24110 of 27184, by maxxis486

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Today I set out to fix a KVD 486 board that kept showing a "Keyboard error".

Since I am still quite new to this, I watched some videos on how to check for broken/corroded traces etc. However, the board is in pretty good condition, since it came with the infamous Dallas chip, so no corrosion from battery acid.

After checking some traces from the keyboard connector with no result, I decided the check the connector, while the power was on and quickly noticed that there was not power on the 5V pin.
Checked for continuency along the 5V rail and sure enough, it stopped at a "bridge" that turned out to be a fuze. Just to be sure that this was the only problem, I did a little McGyver and used a paper clip to bridge the fuze 😀

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And yeah, that was it. Board booted up all nicely 😀

I have already ordered a replacement fuze with the same values (1 amps, 125 volts). Only thing I am unsure of is, should it be a "slow" or a "fast" fuze? I ordered both.

So far I am quite happy with the result.

Cheers!

Reply 24112 of 27184, by Kahenraz

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Fixed a Dell Inspiron 5555 today. Not really retro. Just old.

It was as easy as a motherboard swap, and this laptop is very easy to disassemble. The old board had a short on it. When connecting to power, there would be an audible popping sound, and the LED on the power brick would go out. Unplugging and replugging the brick brings it back to life.

Swapped out the motherboard and it works like a charm.

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Reply 24117 of 27184, by Thandor

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Kahenraz wrote on 2023-04-01, 20:40:

Fixed a Dell Inspiron 5555 today. Not really retro. Just old.

It was as easy as a motherboard swap, and this laptop is very easy to disassemble. The old board had a short on it…

So basically it was Easy as Dell? 😉

(Last 5 seconds of this commercial)
https://youtu.be/BERDijNJ1eQ

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And the rest of us would be carousing the aisles, stuffing baloney.

Reply 24118 of 27184, by Kahenraz

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Most laptops have a lot of different screws and are hard to disassemble fully down to the motherboard. There are only a few different ones in this laptop, and their use is obvious enough that someone with experience doesn't even need to keep track of where they go. There is primarily only one screw length, with very few of other sizes.

I haven't disassembled any other Dell laptops from around this vintage to compare, but the Inspiron 5555 series is a piece of cake.

I can remember when Dell lead the way for screwless desktops in the 90s. It was a real novelty at the time.

Reply 24119 of 27184, by RandomStranger

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Yesterday I finally started finalizing my period correct Voodoo1 build.
Mostly went alright. Click here for specs.
But the old infamous JST driver started to give me some trouble. After I installed the driver for the V330 it started artifacting if I set anything above 640×480 16bit. At first I thought maybe I misremembered and never tested the card, it came from a questionable place so it might actually be faulty. Tried it in another PC, no faults there.

Decided I should reinstall Windows 95, I planned that anyways, it was the OS came with the drive installed for a different PC, it was just a lucky accident that it booted at all. Booted with a W98 floppy, tried formatting, it gave up around 65%. Repartitioned and tried again, same result. Took the drive out put it into my Win2k utility PC, tried formatting there. It went well until about 63% then slowed down. After 3 hours it went up to 75%, left for the night to see what happens. The morning it was still formatting at 80%. I assume it could work with an around 750-760MB partition.

Today

Vintage market 2023 april.

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It wasn't all that good for vintage electronics this time. Some MX440SE here, random modem cards and SCSI controllers there. I picked up a 2GB Quantum hard drive for ~75 cents. It was faulty as expected, but I still wanted to try my luck.

It was much better for games.
I got a Jade Empire with manual in good condition, Prince of Persia (2008) with manual in good condition, Need for Speed: Road Challenge (EU version of High Stakes) decent condition, no manual. All this for 1.5€.

Afternoon I'll continue with the Voodoo build, for the time being with a CF card until I find hard drive.

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