Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-15, 18:09:

This one works perfectly, allowing 800x600 with 24-bit colors. Not sure if there are any Win 3.11 programs that can actually use that color depth

Paintbrush 😀

Azarien wrote on 2022-05-11, 16:15:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-15, 18:09:

This one works perfectly, allowing 800x600 with 24-bit colors. Not sure if there are any Win 3.11 programs that can actually use that color depth

Paintbrush 😀

Heh, I hadn't thought of that!

On the other hand, I do have some vague memories of using either an early version of ACDSee or some other image viewing program under Windows 3.11 as a kid. I think it allowed me to view pictures in 24-bit color, if they were created like that of course. I could be wrong though, as it's been a long time since then.

Hi Joseph,
I have the same mainboard, but I cannot see the option Disable L1, L2 Cache.
So I think I need to flash the bios.
Do you still have the file 5bt-1b7.bin somewhere? I cannot find it in google for download.
All links I found are not active.
greetings
Nino

lnino wrote on 2022-06-01, 13:44:

Do you still have the file 5bt-1b7.bin somewhere? I cannot find it in google for download.

I think I downloaded mine from here.

If that doesn't work out, I can check if I still have a copy on my PC. However, I'm currently on a business trip, and I won't be back home for some time.

Idk if it’s been mentioned but OP noted that the 166 is sometimes too slow for some of the games. A possible solution is that some 166mmx chips came with a unlocked 3.5x multiplier. It’s rare. But some have it. And most p55c mmx chips are stable up to 250-290. Some even up to 330mhz on air

lnino wrote on 2022-06-01, 13:44:

Hi Joseph, I have the same mainboard, but I cannot see the option Disable L1, L2 Cache. So I think I need to flash the bios. Do […]
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Hi Joseph,
I have the same mainboard, but I cannot see the option Disable L1, L2 Cache.
So I think I need to flash the bios.
Do you still have the file 5bt-1b7.bin somewhere? I cannot find it in google for download.
All links I found are not active.
greetings
Nino

See if central tweaking unit works for you. It’s a program that works in win 9x/me

I use it on my k6 chips, but haven’t tried it on a pentium.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-01, 14:11:

I think I downloaded mine from here.

If that doesn't work out, I can check if I still have a copy on my PC. However, I'm currently on a business trip, and I won't be back home for some time.

Thanks a lot. I will try to download it.
Which tool are you using for flashing the bios firmware?

greetings Nino

lnino wrote on 2022-06-01, 19:59:

Which tool are you using for flashing the bios firmware?

I think I used an older version of AWDFLASH from 1999 or so.

Don't remember exactly though, and I can't check until I get back home.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-06, 10:17:

CPU-Z.jpg […]
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CPU-Z.jpg

And here are some benchmarks. Basically, I get Pentium at full speed, a 486DX2-66 at the next speed level (CCD), a 486DX-33 after that (L1D) and lastly a 386DX-25 (L1D+L2D). I could probably fine tune this even further by applying slower memory timings in the BIOS, downclocking the CPU to 133 MHz and using some of the other test registers. But truthfully, the current slowdown range covers my needs quite nicely. Big thanks to Gerwin for developing the excellent SetMul utility which makes all of this possible!

Bench2.jpg

Now for the Voodoo1 benchmarks under Windows 95:

All game benchmarks were carried out using 16-bit color depth. Game versions used:

• Quake1 v1.08 (software rendering)
• GLQuake1 v0.97 (with 3DFX miniGL v1.49)
• Quake2 v3.20 (with 3DFX miniGL v1.49)
• Unreal v2.25 (Glide renderer)

OS and drivers used

• Windows 95 OSR2.1 (no unofficial service packs or third-party patches)
• DirectX 7.0a
• Intel chipset drivers from this Soyo CD
• 3DFX Voodoo1 v3.01.00 reference driver

I love these kinds of build. They're fantastically useful in terms of what they're capable of.

You're absolutely right that many of the test registers have little to no effect. The same issue is much more pronounced with the P54C (Socket 7 Pentium non-MMX). However, VPD+BPD and L1Dx would give you a couple more intermediate steps if you ever need to fine tune a bit further. I did a bunch of testing on the subject some time ago and found the Pentium MMX to be an amazingly versatile CPU.

gdjacobs wrote on 2022-06-03, 17:58:

I love these kinds of build. They're fantastically useful in terms of what they're capable of.

Cheers! I'm very happy with the gaming range that this setup covers. From 1990 DOS titles like the original Wing Commander to a few, selected 1998 Windows games like Final Fantasy VII. Not bad at all.

I did a bunch of testing on the subject some time ago and found the Pentium MMX to be an amazingly versatile CPU.

Thanks! I'll give some of these settings a shot in case I need to fine tune the slowdown range even further.

Just a note, voodoo2 is bottlenecked by slow CPU less, than Voodoo1 . In other words, when CPU is bottleneck, you get 12 fps on voodoo1, and 15 fps on voodoo2.
I would choose voodoo2, maybe you lose compatibility in few titles, but you gain 800x600 and speed advantage. Also, it's better to use Pentium MMX 233, and only underclock it to 166 MMX speed, so you can get advantage of overclock, when you need speed, you can go for 262.5 mhz, or even more. And that voodoo2 takes advantage of it, then you can play even games from 1998 and 1999. So you gain more universality, and also, 99% games profit from it (theoreticaly, with 2xvoodoo2 you can go even for 1024x768). What you gain with voodoo1? Compatiblity in like 10 games... not good tradeoff.

W.x. wrote on 2022-06-11, 21:02:

Just a note, voodoo2 is bottlenecked by slow CPU less, than Voodoo1 .

This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful system with a Voodoo3 (see signature) for more demanding stuff. I mostly use this MMX rig for DOS games and a few, early Win9x titles.

Also, it's better to use Pentium MMX 233, and only underclock it to 166 MMX speed, so you can get advantage of overclock, when you need speed, you can go for 262.5 mhz, or even more.

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:

This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful sy […]
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W.x. wrote on 2022-06-11, 21:02:

Just a note, voodoo2 is bottlenecked by slow CPU less, than Voodoo1 .

This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful system with a Voodoo3 (see signature) for more demanding stuff. I mostly use this MMX rig for DOS games and a few, early Win9x titles.

Also, it's better to use Pentium MMX 233, and only underclock it to 166 MMX speed, so you can get advantage of overclock, when you need speed, you can go for 262.5 mhz, or even more.

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

Honestly I’m curious about this,

The pentium overdrive claims that it goes from 2.5x? to 1x when you remove the fan.

I did a experiment with this on my pentium mmx overdrive 200 and the cpu does indeed get really slow and this even changes while on. It doesn’t require a reboot, but the bios still reports 200 mhz and so does cpuz.

I wonder if maybe on the mmx overdrive it isn’t somehow reporting right or it’s slowing it down another way.

But anyway, I haven’t tried changing the setting on any socket 5/7 cpus while the power was on that I recall.

If it works on one, that doesn’t mean it will work on another model. But it would be interesting to know the result. You know how to test it 😀

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:

This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful system with a Voodoo3 (see signature) for more demanding stuff. I mostly use this MMX rig for DOS games and a few, early Win9x titles.

If you have more retro computers, not only one or two primary, then of course, it's reasonable to build also non-universal build, like historicaly correct ones, that are not fully effective. I thought you are limited only by one retro comp.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

Yes, that's true, I thought you've got jumperless motherboards. Some of the TX motherboards are already jumperless, mostly by QDI and Abit, who started with this earliest. I've got QDI Titanium IB specialy for this. Then I've got PCChips TX motherboard unexpectably for around 3$ (untested), but it was working, and I've got shocked, it is jumperless too. Who would expect it from PCchips. It's PCchips M572. So i've keep it. But you're right, messing with jumpers, when you want to have Pentium 166, from 233, is annoying.

W.x. wrote on 2022-06-13, 23:35:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

Yes, that's true, I thought you've got jumperless motherboards. Some of the TX motherboards are already jumperless, mostly by QDI and Abit, who started with this earliest. I've got QDI Titanium IB specialy for this. Then I've got PCChips TX motherboard unexpectably for around 3$ (untested), but it was working, and I've got shocked, it is jumperless too. Who would expect it from PCchips. It's PCchips M572. So i've keep it. But you're right, messing with jumpers, when you want to have Pentium 166, from 233, is annoying.

If the computer case has a turbo switch and the motherboard uses jumpers to configure the CPU multiplier (which Joseph_Joestar's Socket 7 computer lacks), the button could be strapped into the jumpers for setting the lowest CPU multiplier. It would require a hard reset to take effect, though.

Hi,
can you play GTA2 with your setup?
On my computer it runs really slow.
I know it supports mmx 200 or higher, but I thought with the Flash Card boost it may work.

I dont know which grafic card I have, need to check, but sure nothing special.

Any suggestions?

greetings Nino

lnino wrote on 2022-06-27, 10:56:

Hi,
can you play GTA2 with your setup?
On my computer it runs really slow.

GTA2 was released in October of 1999, so it's probably too demanding for a system like this.

I haven't played it personally since I don't own that game, but I imagine it wouldn't run too great on my rig either.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-27, 11:38:

lnino wrote on 2022-06-27, 10:56:

Hi,
can you play GTA2 with your setup?
On my computer it runs really slow.

GTA2 was released in October of 1999, so it's probably too demanding for a system like this.

I haven't played it personally since I don't own that game, but I imagine it wouldn't run too great on my rig either.

Thanks for your feedback.

greetings Nino

This rig also gets a network card. Once again it's the 3Com 3C905B-TX, although maybe a slightly different revision. I was able to easily set up mTCP thanks to this video by Phil and it worked great, except that my transfer speeds were abysmal. Turns out it's the fault of the latest packet driver (version 5.2.4) that I was using. I switched to the older version 4.0d and things improved significantly. Big thanks to @Grzyb for providing that version!

Got this Startech CF to IDE adapter which fits into the 3.5" floppy drive bay. The box was banged up a bit during shipping, but thankfully, the device is working perfectly. It's much more convenient to use than the internal adapter which I had previously. I can finally switch between my DOS 6.22 and Win95 cards at will, which was the main reason why I got this. Performance might be slightly better as well.

BTW, the "Eject" button has quite a bit of power and can send the CF card flying away from the device in some cases. Need to be careful with that one. 😁

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-04-04, 10:27:

Startech_CF_IDE.jpg

Got this Startech CF to IDE adapter which fits into the 3.5" floppy drive bay. The box was banged up a bit during shipping, but thankfully, the device is working perfectly. It's much more convenient to use than the internal adapter which I had previously. I can finally switch between my DOS 6.22 and Win95 cards at will, which was the main reason why I got this. Performance might be slightly better as well.

BTW, the "Eject" button has quite a bit of power and can send the CF card flying away from the device in some cases. Need to be careful with that one. 😁

I myself made the journey from the internal, to the rear end bracket to the front loading CF adaptor. I have a few of them in some machines. Too bad they don't come in beige but I guess its nothing that a can of spray paint can't fix. The front panel on these things is even textured like to good 'ol days... 😀